REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

McCain/Condi

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Friday, March 14, 2008 15:03
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Monday, March 10, 2008 4:49 AM

HERO


This topic is about VP choices in general, so for you liberals out there...feel free to pipe up with who Barrack or Hillary might pick (cause I seriously doubt it'll be each other).

As for me, I'm picking Condi. This here fella put it pretty well:

Quote:


To deal first with the obvious: Rice may be “only” the second woman and the second African-American to be Secretary of State, but she is indisputably the highest-ranking black female official ever to have served in any branch of the United States government. Her nomination to a constitutional executive office would cost McCain the votes of his party’s hardened racists and incorrigible misogynists. They are surely fewer in number, though, than the people who would like to participate in breaking the glass ceiling of race or gender but, given the choice, would rather do so in a more timid way, and/or without abandoning their party. And with Rice on the ticket the Republicans could attack Clinton or Obama with far less restraint.

By choosing Rice, McCain would shackle himself anew to Bush’s Iraq war. But it’s hard to see how those chains could get much tighter than he has already made them. Rice would fit nicely into McCain’s view of the war as worth fighting but, until Donald Rumsfeld’s exit from the Pentagon, fought clumsily. And it would be fairly easy to establish a story line that would cast Rice as having been less Bush’s enabler than a loyal subordinate who nevertheless pushed gently from within for a more reasonable, more diplomatic approach.

Rice is already fourth in line for the Presidency, and getting bumped up three places would be a shorter leap than any of the three Presidential candidates propose to make. It’s true that her record in office has been one of failure, from downgrading terrorism as a priority before 9/11 to ignoring the Israel-Palestine problem until (almost certainly) too late. But this does not seem to have done much damage to her popularity. In a Washington Post-ABC News poll taken when opposition to the Iraq war was approaching its height, she enjoyed a “favorable-unfavorable” rating of nearly two to one. The conservative rank and file likes her. Though she once described herself as “mildly pro-choice,” she is agile enough to complete the journey to mildly pro-life. And she is a preacher’s daughter.

Choosing Rice would be a trick. Her failures would be buried in an avalanche of positive publicity for a personal story as yet only vaguely known to the broad public. (One of the little girls who died in the 1963 Birmingham church bombing was her playmate? We didn’t know that!) But the trick would not be an entirely cynical one. Her ascension, though nowhere near as momentous a breakthrough as the election of Obama or Clinton, would be a breakthrough all the same. In this connection, a kind word for George W. Bush may be in order. By appointing first Colin Powell and then Rice to the most senior job in the Cabinet, a job of global scope, Bush changed the way millions of white Americans think about black public officials. This may turn out to the most positive legacy of his benighted Presidency. ♦



And he never even mentions Condi's love for the Cleveland Browns (and their stadium mustard).

As for the Democrats...they should pick Gov. Ed Rendell (D,PA) so PA can get a few months off from being run into the ground and the rest of us can laugh at them behind their backs.

H



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Monday, March 10, 2008 5:07 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


I like Rice. I was hoping she would run for president, so I’d like to see her as vice-president too, but alas Rice as already made it clear she has no intention of running for an elected office. Whether or not this will change, I don’t know, but I suspect it will not this year.

It would definitely be an interesting race, but a McCain-Rice ticket would be like catching the golden snitch for the Republicans. The Democrats rely so heavily on the race card, that they wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if they had to fight a McCain-Rice candidacy. The Democrats were the party of Jim Crow not too long ago, and while they hide that feature of their constituency, the racist elements in the Democratic party are still there, which is why they play the race card so heavily, really. Only a anti-Republican demonstration could hold up signs comparing Colon Powell to a chimpanzee and not get any response from Democrats, who would otherwise be pulling down the walls.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, March 10, 2008 5:13 AM

SERGEANTX


Condi would be a great choice. Her presence would underline the fact that a McCain presidency would be a continuation of the "Bush Doctrine".

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, March 10, 2008 5:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I really like Condi. She's a cool chick, smarter than Hillary and loves the NFL. But I'm not sure she's cut out for political life. She's a very private person, and her personality doesn't play well to crowds. She has more of a one on one, or w/ small groups type of persona. I think she'd find the campaign routine tedious and beneath her. ( And who are we kidding, it's beneath pretty much anyone ) Much like Fred Thompson, who'd have made fantastic President, he just didn't care for kissin' babies and shaking hands. Not that he doesn't love people, it's just the face paced schedule for campaigns isn't his style.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, March 10, 2008 5:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I don't think Rice would help McCain, or even be good for the country. Too many screw-ups and outright mis-management is her legacy unfortunately. Also, she's way too polarizing to Dems & Independents to be a viable VP candidate for McCain.

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Monday, March 10, 2008 7:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yup, what McCain really needs right now is a Soviet Union expert... you know, because there IS no more Soviet Union. So that makes perfect sense. I mean, the LAST thing you'd want right about now would be anyone with any Middle East expertise...

On the other side of the coin, Obama and/or Hillary really *SHOULD* pick each other - the only problem is, neither of them want to be on the bottom of the ticket. Hillary's supporters feel like Obama should "wait his turn" and be a good VP for 8 years, which is a plan I smell a lot of "if" coming off...

Firstly, they're ASSUMING that Hillary would last two terms. Secondly, they're ASSUMING that if Hillary lasted two terms, the nation would still have a love affair with the Democrats in general, and Obama in particular. For all we know, the nation may be utterly sick of the Dems after ONE term, much less four in a row!

What they're asking Obama to do, in essence, is hold off on cashing in a winning lottery ticket. "Just wait a few more years, Barack; you'll probably win the Lotto again by then, rigth?"

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Monday, March 10, 2008 7:39 AM

STORYMARK


I'd love it if Condi was McCain's running mate. It'd drive home the "Bush -- the sequel" vibe that McCain is building. And if that happens, only those few die-hard Bushies left will vote for them, and the Dems'll win that much easier.

On the Dem side, if Obama gets the nomination, I think Bill Richardson would be a good choice. He has the Governing and International experience Obama lacks, and would help eleviate the African American/Hispanic animosity that many consider a hinderance for Obama.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, March 10, 2008 7:46 AM

WHODIED



What about McCain and Colin Powell?



--WhoDied


_______________________

"What if I don't wanna be a part of the team?"

"Oh, no, that won't be an issue. See, you and I are gonna get along very well. Moist towelette?"



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Monday, March 10, 2008 8:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:

What about McCain and Colin Powell?



--WhoDied


_______________________

"What if I don't wanna be a part of the team?"

"Oh, no, that won't be an issue. See, you and I are gonna get along very well. Moist towelette?"





Now you're talking. McCain/Powell is actually a ticket I'd consider voting for, at least somewhat. I have the utmost respect for both men, and for their distinguished military service. Both have severely disappointed me in the recent past with their "support" of the Bushite agenda, but they still have my respect and admiration.

Obama/Richardson seems like a semi-workable deal. Richardson doesn't seem to truly put anyone OFF, like Hellary does, and he even has some energy experience, as well as some international experience.

If Clinton is the nominee, look for her to pick Joe Biden. He's a longtime supporter and personal friend, he "had her back" all through the early rounds of the campaign, and he's never wavered in his support for her. And it's a good choice for her, since he has TONS more experience in international affairs than she does, and, like McCain, he's been around the Senate since Methuselah was a kid...



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Monday, March 10, 2008 8:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How about McCain/Ron Paul?

I know Hero'd love that ticket!

(Just kiddin' ya, 'Ro. You realize that, right?)

M

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Monday, March 10, 2008 8:17 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How about McCain/Ron Paul?


I'd never vote for Ron Paul...except to eject him from the House. That would be cool. Ron Paul on Big Brother...

H

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Monday, March 10, 2008 9:51 AM

FREDGIBLET


How about Obama/Clinton...no not that Clinton, the other one.

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Monday, March 10, 2008 10:16 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by fredgiblet:
How about Obama/Clinton...no not that Clinton, the other one.



Chelsea?

Not sure you can do "the other one." Something about Constitutional Succession saying that a President can only be elected to two full terms, or some such.

On second thought, though, I'll have to look into it a li'l deeper to see if I remember correctly... If it says a President can only be *elected to two full terms as President* then that DOES change the landscape a bit... After all, Clinton WAS elected to two full terms as President; now he'd be running for election as VICE-President. Quite a different beast - just ask VP Garner, who said the VP job was worth "a bucket of warm piss" (and then it was cleaned up to "warm spit" for the press).

So, if Slippery Bill were to be elected VP, and then Obama, for whatever reason, didn't finish his first term, then Clinton could have a THIRD term as President.

Highly unlikely - so much so as to border on the impossible. Yet still technically POSSIBLE, nicht wahr?

It's really just a thought exercise for Civics class geeks, at this point. Color it Not Happening.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Monday, March 10, 2008 10:21 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I really like Condi.
Much like Fred Thompson, who'd have made fantastic President

Well, Condi's damaged goods as far as I can tell- but Thompson...I could deal with him, definitely.
Plus: I liked him in Die Hard 2.

Rack 'em stack 'em & pack 'em Chrisisall

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Monday, March 10, 2008 10:53 AM

KIRKULES


I would love to see Condi run, but I don't think she would accept even if she is asked. She's overqualified for the job and would probably prefer another cabinet position.

I do think the first woman and the first African American Presidents will be Republicans. As long as the Democrats continue to pick their candidates because of their sex/color and not because of their qualifications, they won't be able to compete with white males. There are plenty of qualified women and minorities in the Democrat party and the best they can come up with is Clinton and Obama.

Who wouldn't want a president that can pull off stylish and bad ass at the same time.


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Monday, March 10, 2008 11:09 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I would love to see Condi run

Well, I'd love to see her run, problem is at some point she'd stop- I want to see her k e e p on running, far away...

*snicker*Chrisisall

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Monday, March 10, 2008 11:36 AM

FREDGIBLET


I just saw something funny but its not worth starting a whole thread for. It was an old bumper sticker that said "Bush in 04 = Hillary in 08"

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Monday, March 10, 2008 11:42 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by fredgiblet:
I just saw something funny but its not worth starting a whole thread for. It was an old bumper sticker that said "Bush in 04 = Hillary in 08"



"Monica Lewinsky's X-Boyfriend's Wife for President"

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Monday, March 10, 2008 11:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I would love to see Condi run

Well, I'd love to see her run, problem is at some point she'd stop- I want to see her k e e p on running, far away...

*snicker*Chrisisall

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions



Loveyoursigisall!

Can't stop the signal, Chrisisall. Spread the word.


There should be a bumper sticker for Condi that says "Run, Condi, RUN!" I'd put one on my car. 'Course, it'd be on the FRONT bumper. ;)

Yup, Condi sure is qualified. Let's see... She's got some time as a university provost, she's really keen on her Russian studies, and she's "served under" Bush, if you know what I mean. What other qualifications does she need?

Sadly, for me, her stylish jack-boots just don't quite earn her my vote for President. Dominatrix, maybe, but not President.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Monday, March 10, 2008 11:58 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


What has Condi done that is that impressive anyway ?


She was NSA for nearly a year running up to 911, and either missed or failed to act ( depends on what you read ) then messed up or mislead everyone on the Iraq / WMD fiasco

Then she becomes Sec State and what has she done there ? the mid east peace process is just as derailed as it has ever been, Iraq is a mess, Afghanistan turning into a mess, former allies walking away ( running ) The US being held in as much international scorn as China ( perhaps more )

not to mention the minor revolt in the diplomatic service, and ignoring that problem too. In early 2007, Rice indicated that State Department employees were volunteering in large numbers, yet Defense Secretary Gates expressed concerns regarding a request from Rice that military personnel fill jobs in Iraq that are the responsibility of the State Department

maybe she'd be better off in the big brother house.

And if the trouble is Bush driving her policy's, perhaps thats a greater boost to Colin Powell and perhaps the reason he resigned.



The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Monday, March 10, 2008 12:34 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Ms. Rice has a great resume, and it definitley takes some of the wind out of the Democrats sails to put her on the ticket. Unless Obama wins the nomination, then it's a wash (no Firefly reference intended).

On the down side, she has already said no, but as they say, "never say never." Aside from that, it seems to me that she is a very private person at heart, and I wonder if that would work against her. Also I think they would hammer her with the "bin Laden determined to Strike in the US.." sound bite.

Huckabee was gunning for the job. Do you think McCain might choose him to placate Southern Conservatives?

For the Dems I think Richardson was looking to be VP. He's got a lot of experience and would be the first hispanic on a presidential ticket.

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Monday, March 10, 2008 12:53 PM

ANTIMASON


shes just another neo-con interventionist! there is nothing appealing about her.. or McCain for that matter; its a losing ticket. if we wanted socialists, wed vote in a democrat.. NO ONE wants or needs any more pretend conservatives!!

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:59 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Not sure you can do "the other one." Something about Constitutional Succession saying that a President can only be elected to two full terms, or some such.


Bill Clinton could serve as Vice President and could take the Presidency if Obama was killed. He is limited, however, to 10 years total, meaning he could serve as President for a maximum of two years.

The way around that is for him to never assume the Presidency. That could happen by circumstance (Obama being incapacitated rather then dead or gone). The Vice-President would then never take the office, instead acting in the Vice-President's capacity as 'Acting President' under the Constitution. I think that's technically correct...but I'm sure folks would cry foul.

In any event, the two years he could serve as President would be enough time to finish out the term or appoint a new VP. If the latter then the new VP would become President when Clinton's limited term expired. Or if neither option, then it would fall to the Speaker per the line of succession.

Its an interesting topic...kinda like the fact that McCain was NOT born in the USA (and there's a nasty surprise in the Constitution for that one). He was born in Panama.

H

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:03 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
Huckabee was gunning for the job. Do you think McCain might choose him to placate Southern Conservatives?


Its unlikely. McCain needs to choose someone to placate all the conservatives. Huckabee gets him some, Romney gets him the rest, neither gets them all and both alienate the ones they don't get, all of whom are not happy with McCain.

More likely they'll cut a deal with Huck for convention time, a place in the cabnet, support for a Senate run (although he says he does not want that).

H

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:30 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
Huckabee was gunning for the job. Do you think McCain might choose him to placate Southern Conservatives?


Its unlikely. McCain needs to choose someone to placate all the conservatives. Huckabee gets him some, Romney gets him the rest, neither gets them all and both alienate the ones they don't get, all of whom are not happy with McCain.

More likely they'll cut a deal with Huck for convention time, a place in the cabnet, support for a Senate run (although he says he does not want that).

H


I don't agree with that. McCain should NOT kowtow to the Conservatives at all. He needs to stay or move more to the center and broaden his appeal to independents and moderate Dems. There will be plenty of disillusioned Primary voters once the Dems have a nominee, and those 49% who lose are not necessarily going to run to the winner so quickly. As for Conservatives, McCain should just ignore them. They will ALL cave in anyhow and vote for him in November...as they ultimately have no other choice; they 'aint gonna vote for Hillary or Obama. I think his perfect VP choice would be Joe Lieberman....a respected long-time moderate. Although recently "ousted" by the Pelosi-Reid fringe-left socialists in Congress now, he defeated and humiliated them by retaining his Senate seat as an independent. Lieberman, the Al Gore VP nomineee ( anyone actually remember that?) brings a much broader voting base to McCain than any Republican can.

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:01 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
[B}As for Conservatives, McCain should just ignore them. They will ALL cave in anyhow and vote for him in November...as they ultimately have no other choice; they 'aint gonna vote for Hillary or Obama. I think his perfect VP choice would be Joe Lieberman....



Does this mean McCain still has a chance of getting your vote, or are you excluding yourself. You're correct that conservatives that vote will vote for McCain, but choosing Huckaby or Lieberman would cause many to just stay home on election day.

The VP's only purpose is to deliver votes in States the candidate can't win on his own. I think McCain can win Florida, so that takes Crist out of the running. Lieberman might draw enough independents and conservative Dems to offset the Republicans that stay home, but why take the chance. Lieberman is a lock for Secretary of Defense in a McCain administration.

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:59 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
.....Its unlikely. McCain needs to choose someone to placate all the conservatives. Huckabee gets him some, Romney gets him the rest, neither gets them all and both alienate the ones they don't get, all of whom are not happy with McCain.....
H



Ok. Condi doesn't want it, the first and second runnerups don't bring enough to the table, so who else?

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:16 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

Jongsstraw wrote:

...I don't agree with that. McCain should NOT kowtow to the Conservatives at all. He needs to stay or move more to the center and broaden his appeal to independents and moderate Dems....



Might be a good stratdegy. He's shown the tendency work both sides of the aisle. Bowing to Bush on Social Security while working with Democrats on campaign reform. So he could go either way. But my gut is that he picks a conservative to win favor for the "base." The question is who?

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Friday, March 14, 2008 1:42 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
[B}As for Conservatives, McCain should just ignore them. They will ALL cave in anyhow and vote for him in November...as they ultimately have no other choice; they 'aint gonna vote for Hillary or Obama. I think his perfect VP choice would be Joe Lieberman....



Does this mean McCain still has a chance of getting your vote, or are you excluding yourself. You're correct that conservatives that vote will vote for McCain, but choosing Huckaby or Lieberman would cause many to just stay home on election day.

The VP's only purpose is to deliver votes in States the candidate can't win on his own. I think McCain can win Florida, so that takes Crist out of the running. Lieberman might draw enough independents and conservative Dems to offset the Republicans that stay home, but why take the chance. Lieberman is a lock for Secretary of Defense in a McCain administration.


I won't decide who I will vote for until at least after the conventions. If McCain reaches too strongly to the Conservatives he will lose the general election, and lose it badly. The only chance he has is to solidify and expand his moderate and independent base. He needs to turn at least some of the supporters of the losing side of the Hillary/Obama fight to him. Instead of Reagan Democrats, he must try to create MCCain Democrats. As I said before, the "Conservative base" is highly overrated in its' power to influence elections. McCain has got to do everything possible to dis-associate & differentiate himself from Bush...anything "Bush" is the kiss of death for this election. All he needs to do for the next few months is SHUT UP & RAISE MONEY. Let the Dems bloody eachother while he builds a war chest. Then he needs to announce his VP choice at the Convention, and if his choice is NOT overwhelmingly loved by the delegates, then he'll know he's made the right choice to get elected. He also needs to spend the next few pre-convention months taking a public speaking course (I suggest Dale Carnegie), because he's barely better than Bush in communicating. And he needs to sharpen his debate skills in terms of being able to rip & shred the Democratic nominee's positions during debates. Of course, he likely will do none of what I think he should do, and ultimately he will cave in to the absurdly steadfast neo-con base, thus losing the election by something close to 52% Dem, 46% Rep, and 2% Nader.

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Friday, March 14, 2008 3:00 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
Ok. Condi doesn't want it


She may not have much of a choice. I believe that she does not want it, but if asked she will serve. She always has. She's certainly qualified, more qualified in fact then either of the Democratic candidates.

The fact that she can do the job but is not seeking the job merely adds to her credibility, not just for the role I want her to play, but for the roles she has played in the past. Here is a person who has always given her best expert advice without regard to desire for higher office. Whether you agree with her philosophy or not...her's is an honost debate with a person who believes in what she says for its own sake, not for what it brings her in return. I don't think that can be said about Clinton, Obama has too short a record to make that sort of distinction.

H

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Friday, March 14, 2008 2:45 PM

CREVANREAVER


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How about McCain/Ron Paul?



I wouldn't hesitate to vote for a Ron Paul/John McCain ticket.

If pigs start flying and hell deep freezes, that ticket might happen.

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Friday, March 14, 2008 3:03 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
Ok. Condi doesn't want it


I believe that she does not want it, but if asked she will serve. She always has.

The fact that she can do the job but is not seeking the job merely adds to her credibility,



I couldn't agree with these points more. Reluctance to serve means the person understands the sacrifice that public office entails and they don't need that position/power to satisfy their ego.

I think Jong is right about her close association with Bush hurting McCain. I can't believe all the great minds here can't come up with a VP candidate that will be a net positive for McCain. Maybe an unknown?

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