REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obama

POSTED BY: SERGEANTX
UPDATED: Monday, February 18, 2008 04:18
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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:04 PM

SERGEANTX


OK, I've just read Obama's "Blueprint For America". It was nothing new, nothing I didn't expect. Pretty much just good old-fashioned 'Great Society' liberalism. Funny how that's actually looking like an appealing alternative. Not because I agree with him, I think he's wrong about pretty much all the solutions he proposes. That said, I'm considering supporting his campaign. If only because the other two media-endorsed candidates scare the living shit out of me.

I do think Obama's wrong. But he's just 'plain wrong'. He's not 'totally batshit neo-con insane wrong'. All this depends on what kind of third party runs emerge. I'll probably end up in one of those camps, but since there's not much on the table in that regard just yet, I'm looking at those the television thinks I should vote for.

(For those of you who care, I'm still working for the Ron Paul campaign. But the focus has shifted. We want to go to the convention with as many delegates as possible and at least try to inject a voice of reason into the proceedings. And ultimately we have long-term plans of re-aiming the Republican Party, but that's not going to happen before this fall.)

I still have some outstanding issues I'd like to hear Obama address. In the blueprint, he mentions nothing about the sacrifices we've made in terms of our individual rights and the loss of our basic constitutional protections. He says nothing at all about the Patriot Act, Real ID, the Department of Homeland Security, The Homegrown Terrorist Act, etc, etc, etc... That bothers me a great deal. The one thing that makes liberals tolerable is that they usually give some attention to civil liberties. Not if it interferes with their grand plans to "make people better", of course, but they at least tend to be better about this than the Republicans.

He doesn't seem to have much to say about the drug war either, except that he has 'no interest in legalization'.

I do like that he's pushing for more transparency and accountability in government. But that's one of those things every candidate says, and never does anything about if elected. The problem here, and with pretty much all of his solutions, is that he never gets to the root of he problem. He wants to curtail corporate influence in Washington, but fails to recognize the source of the problem - too much government power. When a government official can make or break a company, or an entire industry, with the stroke of a pen, those companies WILL find a way to influence that official, legal or otherwise.

He wants to get out of Iraq, but he doesn't seem to recognize the errors in our foreign policy that keep getting into wars like that in the first place.

He wants to make health care more available, but he wants to do it with more of the same policies that have created the mess in the first place.

What do you all think of him? My overall opinion is that he doesn't really offer any kind of substantial change. But that, in and of itself, is a refreshing change. He's also a decent PR man. I'm generally pretty dismissive of such superficialities, but after eight years of W, it's something we're starved for. I also like his intentions, for the most part. I don't think any of his proposed solutions will get us there.

In short, I think he'll make things worse. But I think that he'll at least slow the rate of acceleration as we swirl down the drain. I can't say that about McCain or Clinton.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:14 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:

What do you all think of him? My overall opinion is that he doesn't really offer any kind of substantial change. But that, in and of itself, is a refreshing change. He's also a decent PR man. I'm generally pretty dismissive of such superficialities, but after eight years of W, it's something we're starved for. I also like his intentions, for the most part. I don't think any of his proposed solutions will get us there.



I think Obama is a good man, and if both houses of Congress were in Republican hands it wouldn't bother me to much to have him as President. With both houses in Democrat hands and Obama's "cult of personality", I think he could do substantial damage to this country. I tend to like divided government because change comes slowly and needs bipartisan support to happen. If Obama sweeps onto power with a perceived mandate, we could see "substantial change" in areas that will be almost impossible to reverse in the future. Areas like gun control and new government entitlement programs come to mind. I'm also concerned that his inexperience will allow foreign leaders like Putin and Chavez to walk all over him.

If Obama does become President we can only hope he messes up his first year in office bad enough(like Clinton did) that the Republicans can take back Congress in the midterm election.

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:20 PM

FREDGIBLET


I don't like his gun control position but overall I think he's OK, somewhat better than Hillary, somewhat better than McCain. I wouldn't feel bad about voting for him unless he got all his gun control wishes which I don't think he will. I think he will likely be largely ineffectual as an agent of change but will probably at least keep things from getting much worse.

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I think his combination of inexperience and lack of ruthlessness will ensure nothing gets done, which normally wouldn't be so bad - IF our national course at this time wasn't headed straight off a cliff.

I'd rather chug a lug a bag fulla razor sharp rocksalt than vote for any of these establishment bastards, prolly write in Ron Paul, although...

Since he threw in the towel on us - something that I disagree with, but that's his decision for a tactical reason rather than just a lack of guts...

I dunno, if Obama looks like a shoe-in and it's damn near pointless, I might write in Al Sharpton out of pure spite.... he'd like that, since I owe him one over Genarlow Wilson still.


Of course, as for the Rethuglicans, I think the whole cursed party oughta be RICO'd, judicially lynched (hey, THEY put those fanatic judges there in the first place, only have themselves to blame!) and hung from the lightposts up on capitol hill.

Then do it to the Dimocrats, who, being dimmer and more tolerant, are less of a threat, but a threat all the same.

Then shoot the judges when we're done with em.

And good riddance to the whole bad lot.


-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Wait a minute..... you're still working for Ron Paul, the uber-Constitutionalist, but you're thinking of voting for Barack Hussein Obama ??

(Obama campaign office - Texas )

You can't be friggin serious.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:46 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Who me ? are you insane ??

No way I could hold back the gag reflex to vote for Billary the NAFTA-pushin, Molech-humpin, Big Pharma pet bitch, I hate her almost as much as PN does, and I think that's sayin somethin

Couldn't stomach Obama-lama-ding-dong neither, for reasons previously expressed... I just think we might wind up stuck with his wimpy well dressed ass cause he's not as much an obvious lunatic as the rest of em... pretty damn sad when he looks good by comparison, innit ?

And what do the Rethugs have but McCain... who's positions on a lot of things made this sudden, radical change after he got that nice fat chunka change to his campaign fund from AIPAC...

That was a while ago, mind - but if you go back and correllate the dates and the position turnarounds and swaps, you'll see they all happened in that week.

If anything it's amusing in a sad trainwreck fascination kinda way watching the mainstream media try to frost this turdcake of a "decision" to somehow make it more appealing to the masses, and of course, I laugh at the magic "29%" that they espouse every week right on schedule, when in fact it's closer to 14% give or take +/-3% depending on specific region.

It's also very telling that the people hate congress even WORSE for being the collaborators and enablers of this lame shit - I note they rolled over on the immunity thing, coulda toldja they were gonna do that, the gutless bitches.

On top of that, the blatant fraud and chicanery of the primaries has fully convinced me at this time that the entire electoral process is hopelessly compromised - especially since all that shit is fully documented and no one seems to much care... that apathy kinda scares me, makes me wonder if it's a calm before the storm...

In John Ringos The Road to Damascus even the proles eventually started blowing shit up, though it took em a while to get that pissed....

That's a book I think you'd like, Rap - while the "bad guys" encompass both ends of the political spectrum, it makes a decent case busting on liberal stupidities and end results as well, reading it would definately add to your stock of effective arguments against their policies.

It's a good read all on it's own, if you've ever liked Keith Laumers BOLO work, and the political aspect is just gravy on the side.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:08 PM

ERIC


A lotta people say he's just an empty suit. But thing is, I'd take an empty suit over a corporatist like Shrillary, a warmonger like McInsain, or a theocrat like Huckleberry any day.

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:35 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States. I haven't been able to do that once yet (too young to care about Bill Clinton, and Bush... ugh). I also think that the country would be able to make it through any of them, but McCain really worries me, and Clinton probably can't win. So, it's Obama, a third-party, or a write-in vote for me.

Once a lurker, always a lurker.

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:17 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....



I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.

By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:14 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Obama IS going to be the next President.

I watched the 3 speeches last night...his, McCain's and Hillary's. He blew them all away. Hillary came off as a pathetically deperate shell of a woman, so full of lies and bullshit that all she can muster up is something akin to "a chicken in every pot." McCain looked old & feeble, mumbling some rambling crap about his experience, in front of a few hand-picked Repub wonks jockeying for a potential Cabinet postition or something...totally non-Presidential. Obama won the night. In front of a packed arena with 18,000 screaming college kids...it looked like the Beatles at Shea Stadium. His speech was terrific, and full of historical events that changed the course of history. It sounded like a mix of JFK and MLK...very appealing to those Bush-haters and even Independents wanting change. He may be even more popular than Hannah Montana! Hillary will be finished after Ohio & Texas, and Obama (along with his fervently biased-in-his-favor media) will pound McCain into the ground.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:15 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama IS going to be the next President.

I watched the 3 speeches last night...his, McCain's and Hillary's. He blew them all away.


Its hardly in the bag.

First of all I would not count the Clintons out until the body is cold and you've poked Hillary with a stick a few times. I think they can and will go after Obama at least one more time. Then there is the Superdelagate issue. If Obama goes into convention tied or slightly ahead in delegates, then Clinton wins. 1/3 of Democrat Delegates are Superdelegates.

Two, Obama has a big experiance hurdle to overcome. He plays it well against Hillary, arguing a choice between the past and future. But its a long time till November and a crisis or attack could really put into American minds the question of who is best able to handle a bad situation and in that regard McCain is far above any of his opponants.

H

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:46 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Then there is the Superdelagate issue. If Obama goes into convention tied or slightly ahead in delegates, then Clinton wins. 1/3 of Democrat Delegates are Superdelegates.


I don't think the DNC will allow that to happen. If they "overturn" the "will of the voters" you could have a race war, or at least riots in the streets, and a very bruised & fractured Dem party. Youre right about Hillary....not to count her out, but she's looking mighty weakened right now.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:06 AM

LEIASKY


They need to get rid of 'electorates' all together. The people of this country vote and if the majority of them want a certain candidate then that is who should win. The electoral college is outdated and needs to go away.

Who got the 'popular vote' 8 years ago? Or was it 4? It's been so many long, painful years. It certainly wasn't the idiot we have in office now. He embarrasses this country every time he opens his mouth.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:10 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Leiasky:
They need to get rid of 'electorates' all together. The people of this country vote and if the majority of them want a certain candidate then that is who should win. The electoral college is outdated and needs to go away.




I hope you live in New York city, Los Angeles, or Chicago, because if you don't, your vote won't count for much without the electoral college. The reason we have a Democratic Republic is to protect minority rights. Mob rule might be OK for you if you're in the majority, but most in this country believe the minority should have a say in their government also. Why not just eliminate Presidential elections altogether and just poll the 10 biggest cities in the US to see who the next President should be.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




Wow - where on Earth did you find that picture of Hero's cubicle?


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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Wow - where on Earth did you find that picture of Hero's cubicle?
And how did Hero know that Che is my idol?


!Si se peude!


I don't know about Obama. He refuses to say anything other than mush. Maybe that's what most people need to hear now, but it makes me think that he's either really .... mushy.... or really, really, really smart.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:31 PM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....



I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.

By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock




This country doesnt feel good about itself?? Why cause we "choose to feel bad" (like Bush had everything to do with that, forgot about 9/11, huh)about this country? I still fly my flag everyday. I love this country. If you say Iraq makes us feel bad, I disagree. We are doing good things in Iraq, the media "chooses" to show it as a bad place. yea, war is hell, I agree. But compaired to what they had before, it is a lot better. They have something they have never had before, which we take forgranted, Freedom.

If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing. you can say what you want(but then again this is America) but those troops over there dont feel bad about this country and neither do I.


Keep Flying!!

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:02 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....



I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.

By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock




This country doesnt feel good about itself?? Why cause we "choose to feel bad" (like Bush had everything to do with that, forgot about 9/11, huh)about this country? I still fly my flag everyday. I love this country. If you say Iraq makes us feel bad, I disagree. We are doing good things in Iraq, the media "chooses" to show it as a bad place. yea, war is hell, I agree. But compaired to what they had before, it is a lot better. They have something they have never had before, which we take forgranted, Freedom.

If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing. you can say what you want(but then again this is America) but those troops over there dont feel bad about this country and neither do I.



I couldn't agree with you more Tholo. I guess Americans just love negativity. I don't know where it all comes from, but I think the 24 hour news cycle has definitely made things worse. Being bombarded with negativity 24 hours a day seems to get to a lot of people. We are living in one of the most hopeful ,prosperous, and just times in American history and over 50% of the population thinks things are going to hell. I just don't see it, even though the media and many here try to point it out to me every day.


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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:30 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing...



This kind of schoolyard morality is what got us into that mess in the first place. Unfortunately they did die for nothing. I'm guessing that, to you, that will sound like an insult to the troops, which of course it isn't. I have the deepest respect for the people who sign up to risk their very lives to protect me and mine. That's why it pisses me off when we send them off on foolish, no-win missions.

Lots of them are beginning to realize it too. The amount of donations from military people supporting Ron Paul's campaign is perhaps the most honest appraisal of what the troops think of the war.(he's received more than any candidate, Democrat or Republican) Money talks. They're living through the direct repercussions of our leader's ignorance and hubris.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:42 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Wow - where on Earth did you find that picture of Hero's cubicle?
And how did Hero know that Che is my idol?



Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard.

"Guevara was assigned the role of "supreme prosecutor", overseeing the public show trials and executions of hundreds of military and civilian leaders associated with the previous regime"

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard
WHOOOAAA, dude. And they talk about humorless liberals?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:45 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard
WHOOOAAA, dude. And they talk about humorless liberals?

---------------------------------
B]



Oh, I get it, Earth humor. Ark,Ark...

Nanu-Nanu!
Kirkules

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:49 PM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing...



This kind of schoolyard morality is what got us into that mess in the first place. Unfortunately they did die for nothing. I'm guessing that, to you, that will sound like an insult to the troops, which of course it isn't. I have the deepest respect for the people who sign up to risk their very lives to protect me and mine. That's why it pisses me off when we send them off on foolish, no-win missions.

Lots of them are beginning to realize it too. The amount of donations from military people supporting Ron Paul's campaign is perhaps the most honest appraisal of what the troops think of the war.(he's received more than any candidate, Democrat or Republican) Money talks. They're living through the direct repercussions of our leader's ignorance and hubris.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



"This kind of schoolyard morality is what got us into that mess in the first place." hehehe I think it is funny how Dem/Libs always worry about how people feel and then when called on a point, instead of talking about the subject, they have to resort to name calling. schoolyard, give me a break. "Schoolyard morality" didnt start this, the terrorist did on 9/11.

You tell me when and where, and I want to see you tell that to a soldier. Why is this war a "no-win"?. Do you think George Washington said that during the Revolution? Do you think Patton said that during WWII, to defeat Hitler who didnt bomb us by the way! We are providing Iraq with such simple things as running water, by helping build water plants that your poor Saddam(govt.) didnt want to turn on. They now have free news(God help them)which Saddam(govt.) didnt allow

To quote from the Dems/Libs favorite front man. "Ask not what your country can DO FOR YOU, Ask what YOU CAN DO for your country"
Which is the opposite of what DEM/Libs want. They want more goverment(Saddam) in our lives as much as they can.

Well if you want the country to take care of you(what your country can do for you) then go live in China/Russia(hell pick one they all want to come here) and see how you like it?

If a country is starving , who does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If a country is flooded by a tidewave what country does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If we did nothing, wow

If Saddam takes over a country and burns the oil fields who does the world look to, to stop it. USA

Saddam was asked many times by both Bush/CLINTON/Bush to stop doing what he was doing and he didnt listen. But then 9/11 comes and kills 4000 Americans and we are suppose to worry about "schoolyard morality" ????

Tell that to a Peal Harbor vet or a family member of 9/11 and see what happens. I guess the terrorist had a "schoolyard morality"

What kind of "morality" did they have?



This country is not perfect. But I can think of no other place in the world to be so proud of.

Keep Flying!!

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:06 PM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....



I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.

By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock




This country doesnt feel good about itself?? Why cause we "choose to feel bad" (like Bush had everything to do with that, forgot about 9/11, huh)about this country? I still fly my flag everyday. I love this country. If you say Iraq makes us feel bad, I disagree. We are doing good things in Iraq, the media "chooses" to show it as a bad place. yea, war is hell, I agree. But compaired to what they had before, it is a lot better. They have something they have never had before, which we take forgranted, Freedom.

If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing. you can say what you want(but then again this is America) but those troops over there dont feel bad about this country and neither do I.



I couldn't agree with you more Tholo. I guess Americans just love negativity. I don't know where it all comes from, but I think the 24 hour news cycle has definitely made things worse. Being bombarded with negativity 24 hours a day seems to get to a lot of people. We are living in one of the most hopeful ,prosperous, and just times in American history and over 50% of the population thinks things are going to hell. I just don't see it, even though the media and many here try to point it out to me every day.




Thank you , I thought I was all alone in the Verse. It's good to find someone from the same battalion.

Shiney

Keep Flying!!

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:21 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I see the rightwingnuts have dug up their own brand of PN...

Sadly, there's nothing I can say to make that rant look even one whit dumber than it already is... I hate it when they do my job for me, really I do.

Btw - Conyers is pitching a hissy about being unable to use his phone or fax for all the people bitching his wimpy ass out: keep it up.

-F

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:57 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....

R.I.P. Freedom, either way....


I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:10 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....

R.I.P. Freedom, either way....

I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.


You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.


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Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:37 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself


He's not a Muslim.

Perhaps its racist to think that a man's name, color, and pre-school determine his faith for life.

He claims to be a Christian, he was raised Christian, he attends a Christian church. Huckabee makes the same claims...are you saying Huckabee is a Muslim?

H

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:46 AM

HKCAVALIER


I'm kinda not getting where people are getting this whole "Obama is a wimp" thing and how it pertains to much of anything.

Bush ran as a wimp in 2000.

Clinton ran on virtually the same message as Obama.

Neither man has proven to be afraid to murder foreigners.

Is it just post-9/11 dementia that demands that anyone running for President growl at the microphone or risk being proclaimed unfit to rule--erm, ahem, I mean, serve? Isn't that just a different version of "schoolyard morality?"

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:50 AM

LEIASKY


>If a country is starving , who does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If a country is flooded by a tidewave what country does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If we did nothing, wow

And what happens when the US gives and gives and gives? They get criticized by the world that they didn't give ENOUGH.

This country is not the world's policeman.


"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:56 AM

LEIASKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself



He's not a Muslim.

Perhaps its racist to think that a man's name, color, and pre-school determine his faith for life.

He claims to be a Christian, he was raised Christian, he attends a Christian church. Huckabee makes the same claims...are you saying Huckabee is a Muslim?

H



Thank you, Hero, for saying what I was about to say but a bit less nicely.





"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:57 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I see the rightwingnuts have dug up their own brand of PN...

Sadly, there's nothing I can say to make that rant look even one whit dumber than it already is... I hate it when they do my job for me, really I do.

Btw - Conyers is pitching a hissy about being unable to use his phone or fax for all the people bitching his wimpy ass out: keep it up.

-F




hahahahahaha, back to the name calling hahahahahaha

i love it.

Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:01 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself


He's not a Muslim.

Perhaps its racist to think that a man's name, color, and pre-school determine his faith for life.

He claims to be a Christian, he was raised Christian, he attends a Christian church. Huckabee makes the same claims...are you saying Huckabee is a Muslim?

H



He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.

I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.

Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:30 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.

I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.

Oh no! And John McCain has an Irish name so he must be taking orders from the Pope! We're all doomed!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:52 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.

I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.

Oh no! And John McCain has an Irish name so he must be taking orders from the Pope! We're all doomed!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.



Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.

he is a lying about himself and if he will do that ,then i dont want him, sorry.

Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.



Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.

And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?

Stupid people shouldn't breed.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:21 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
Quote:




I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.



Betcha half-a-dollar?

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:37 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.



Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.

And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?

Stupid people shouldn't breed.



Then why did he change?

I didnt call him any names? what are you talking about? I never said muslems were evil, your ducking the subject, he must feel its evil to change his what he belives in?

yea like clinton didnt whore around, why not mention him in all the bad mouthing? where is the name calling for clinton? come man use a little logic here. "those without sin my cast the first stone."

"some" of those Bush alligations are rumors anyway, set up by the media who are Dems anyway.
why do you think they are not bring up Obama's middle name and muslim upbringing. that would mean bad press for him, and we cant have that, i dont trust katie curic.



Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.



Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.

And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?

Stupid people shouldn't breed.



Then why did he change?

I didnt call him any names? what are you talking about? I never said muslems were evil, your ducking the subject, he must feel its evil to change his what he belives in?

yea like clinton didnt whore around, why not mention him in all the bad mouthing? where is the name calling for clinton? come man use a little logic here. "those without sin my cast the first stone."

"some" of those Bush alligations are rumors anyway, set up by the media who are Dems anyway.
why do you think they are not bring up Obama's middle name and muslim upbringing. that would mean bad press for him, and we cant have that, i dont trust katie curic.






Clinton absolutely whored around. Dude got more ass than a toilet seat. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that as such, only with his choice of "babes". Let's face it, Clinton is no Jack Kennedy. Kennedy at least had the decency to bang Marilyn Monroe; Clinton settled for - gag - Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, and a fat intern.

The media are all "Dems", huh? That may come as a bit of a shock to Roger Ailes, Bill Orally, Rush Limbaugh, et al.

You say you're not name-calling, yet you continually call Obama a Muslim as if that's a bad name. And you continually bring up his middle name for the same reason. If that's not name-calling, what is it, exactly? What are you, seven years old? I'd dearly love to fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you've come completely unarmed.


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Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:16 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Husayn, Hussein, Hussain, Husain, Hosein (Arabic:حسین), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, after Husayn ibn Ali. In some Persian sources the form Háosayn is used [1]. In Turkish it is Hüseyin.



Well, that absolutely, beyond a doubt PROVES that he's the evil bastard son of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (or, as the Rethuglicans think of them, the one single person who represents every single Muslim: O'Saddama).

Or, it just COULD be that the middle name of Hussein was chosen because it's an Arabic word for "handsome" or "good".


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Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:35 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.



Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.

And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?

Stupid people shouldn't breed.



Then why did he change?

I didnt call him any names? what are you talking about? I never said muslems were evil, your ducking the subject, he must feel its evil to change his what he belives in?

yea like clinton didnt whore around, why not mention him in all the bad mouthing? where is the name calling for clinton? come man use a little logic here. "those without sin my cast the first stone."

"some" of those Bush alligations are rumors anyway, set up by the media who are Dems anyway.
why do you think they are not bring up Obama's middle name and muslim upbringing. that would mean bad press for him, and we cant have that, i dont trust katie curic.






Clinton absolutely whored around. Dude got more ass than a toilet seat. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that as such, only with his choice of "babes". Let's face it, Clinton is no Jack Kennedy. Kennedy at least had the decency to bang Marilyn Monroe; Clinton settled for - gag - Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, and a fat intern.

The media are all "Dems", huh? That may come as a bit of a shock to Roger Ailes, Bill Orally, Rush Limbaugh, et al.

You say you're not name-calling, yet you continually call Obama a Muslim as if that's a bad name. And you continually bring up his middle name for the same reason. If that's not name-calling, what is it, exactly? What are you, seven years old? I'd dearly love to fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you've come completely unarmed.




ohhhhh. i am not calling him a name sir. i am stating a FACT.
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes. Why is that "namecalling"

IS his middle name not Hussian!!!!! Yes, he removed it to get votes,
Why is that "namecalling"

you sir are unarmed.


Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:37 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Husayn, Hussein, Hussain, Husain, Hosein (Arabic:حسین), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, after Husayn ibn Ali. In some Persian sources the form Háosayn is used [1]. In Turkish it is Hüseyin.



Well, that absolutely, beyond a doubt PROVES that he's the evil bastard son of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (or, as the Rethuglicans think of them, the one single person who represents every single Muslim: O'Saddama).

Or, it just COULD be that the middle name of Hussein was chosen because it's an Arabic word for "handsome" or "good".




Good Gosh, I didnt say he was involved with those terrorist. I just stated that he REMOVED them from the public eye, to get votes. Nor did I say the name hussian was a bad word.



Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:08 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Lots of people remove things from the public eye when they are running for office. The American public WANTS some level of dishonesty from their candidates. They don't want confessions up there on the podium.

Barack Obama isn't any more dishonest than any other candidate. Anyone could easily find "dirt" that any other candidate has chosen to hide when they decided to run. And usually, that dirt is more damaging than having an arabic middle name.

I won't vote for any of them. But if I had to, I would vote for Obama even if his name were Iraq Hussein Osama. And I would do it happily over either Shrillary Billary or McInsane McCane.

--------------------------
The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within.
-Mahatma Gandhi

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:26 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

ohhhhh. i am not calling him a name sir. i am stating a FACT.
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes. Why is that "namecalling"

IS his middle name not Hussian!!!!! Yes, he removed it to get votes,
Why is that "namecalling"

you sir are unarmed.



1) I've never seen one scintilla of evidence that Barack Obama was *ever* a practicing Muslim. You are stating that it is a "FACT", with no evidence at all to back that up. I'm asking you to supply evidence - where did you get that he is, was, or ever has been a Muslim?

2) No, his middle name is NOT "Hussian". Plain and simple fact, it's not. It's "Hussein".

I think my biggest problem with the fucknuts on the right is the *way* they say it, which is simply a way of namecalling. They imply, by word and tone, that they quite simply don't approve of any person of any color other than lily white, and ESPECIALLY not of any person named (and they always say it with particular venom in the inflection, like a fire-n-brimstone baptist youth molester - er, I mean youth minister) "Bah-Rock-Ah Hew-SAYN Ohh-Bamm-Er" having the gall to run for President of these United States.

And the way these people say the word "Musllim" is like they have a mouthful of shit when they say it. I'm not crazy about Muslims, but I'm not crazy about Christians or any other religious group, either. To me, they are ALL equally deluded, equally indoctrinated into their respective cults, and equally feeble-minded. But to imply, by word and tone, that a Muslim isn't fit to lead our country is to go absolutely counter to our very Constitution and its guarantee of freedom of religion. How very fucking American of you...

Those on the right, and you, seem to be inferring things from Obama's name that simply aren't backed up by any evidence I've been able to find, or you've been able to provide. It's like me saying that Bush is categorically proven to be a complete and utter pussy simply because his last name is Bush. I mean, granted, he IS a giant pussy, but that comes more from his background as a coward and a deserter, not necessarily from his family name. I guess we should have known from his middle name that George WALKER Bush would run away from any hint of battle - at least any kind of battle that could result in HIM being sent to war.

And Karl Rove? Obviously a devout communist. Look at the way he spells his first name - Karl, just like Marx.

You're right - playing games with peoples' names and inferring things about their character from their name IS a lot of fun. Don't even get me started on Huckabee.



The so-called christian right is neither.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:43 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I think my biggest problem with the fucknuts on the right ....

To me, they are ALL equally deluded, equally indoctrinated into their respective cults, and equally feeble-minded.

I mean, granted, he IS a giant pussy, but that comes more from his background as a coward and a deserter, not necessarily from his family name.
The so-called christian right is neither.


All you're doing is name calling & flaming at the same time. In a few short sentences you've managed to hurl insults at about 95% of all Americans. Congrats! You're today's winner...so far.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:18 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes.
And you have proof of this?

Both he and his campaign have repeated stated that he is not, NOR EVER WAS, a Muslim. Where are you getting this idea that he once was a muslim? Do you, or anyone else, have proof? Can you produce photos of him or eyewitness reports of his attending a mosque, reading the Koran, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, observing the Ramadan, or observing his daily prayers before he ran for office?

It is customary for people who accuse other people of lying to produce proof. Otherwise, groundless direct accusations are themselves lies.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm



--------------------------
When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.
--P. J. O'Rourke

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:27 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes.
And you have proof of this?

Both he and his campaign have repeated stated that he is not, NOR EVER WAS, a Muslim. Where are you getting this idea that he once was a muslim? Do you, or anyone else, have proof? Can you produce photos of him or eyewitness reports of his attending a mosque, reading the Koran, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, observing the Ramadan, or observing his daily prayers before he ran for office?

It is customary for people who accuse other people of lying to produce proof. Otherwise, groundless direct accusations are themselves lies.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm



--------------------------
When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.
--P. J. O'Rourke




hhaha look at the poll results. about half way down the article.

Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:33 AM

THOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

ohhhhh. i am not calling him a name sir. i am stating a FACT.
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes. Why is that "namecalling"

IS his middle name not Hussian!!!!! Yes, he removed it to get votes,
Why is that "namecalling"

you sir are unarmed.



1) I've never seen one scintilla of evidence that Barack Obama was *ever* a practicing Muslim. You are stating that it is a "FACT", with no evidence at all to back that up. I'm asking you to supply evidence - where did you get that he is, was, or ever has been a Muslim?

2) No, his middle name is NOT "Hussian". Plain and simple fact, it's not. It's "Hussein".

I think my biggest problem with the fucknuts on the right is the *way* they say it, which is simply a way of namecalling. They imply, by word and tone, that they quite simply don't approve of any person of any color other than lily white, and ESPECIALLY not of any person named (and they always say it with particular venom in the inflection, like a fire-n-brimstone baptist youth molester - er, I mean youth minister) "Bah-Rock-Ah Hew-SAYN Ohh-Bamm-Er" having the gall to run for President of these United States.

And the way these people say the word "Musllim" is like they have a mouthful of shit when they say it. I'm not crazy about Muslims, but I'm not crazy about Christians or any other religious group, either. To me, they are ALL equally deluded, equally indoctrinated into their respective cults, and equally feeble-minded. But to imply, by word and tone, that a Muslim isn't fit to lead our country is to go absolutely counter to our very Constitution and its guarantee of freedom of religion. How very fucking American of you...

Those on the right, and you, seem to be inferring things from Obama's name that simply aren't backed up by any evidence I've been able to find, or you've been able to provide. It's like me saying that Bush is categorically proven to be a complete and utter pussy simply because his last name is Bush. I mean, granted, he IS a giant pussy, but that comes more from his background as a coward and a deserter, not necessarily from his family name. I guess we should have known from his middle name that George WALKER Bush would run away from any hint of battle - at least any kind of battle that could result in HIM being sent to war.

And Karl Rove? Obviously a devout communist. Look at the way he spells his first name - Karl, just like Marx.

You're right - playing games with peoples' names and inferring things about their character from their name IS a lot of fun. Don't even get me started on Huckabee.



The so-called christian right is neither.



proof , heck just look toward the top of the board and look at the pic. ok so I cant "Hussein". I can admit it.
Thanks for all the good curse words and name calling mainly on Bush and myself. Imagine if I were to say the same thing as you did about Obama.

You sir, are not worth my time. Goodbye

Keep Flying!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:28 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....

R.I.P. Freedom, either way....

I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.


You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.




Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Body Snatchers have gotten to Jong.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:41 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Tholo:
hhaha look at the poll results. about half way down the article.

And that is proof that he is a Muslim? Because 49% of an anonymous internet poll think he is Muslim?

Please answer the question. Where is your proof that he was a Muslim before he ran for office?

--------------------------
It is easier to stay out than get out.
--Mark Twain

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