REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hiroshima & Nagasaki Anniversaries

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:56
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2427
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 3:27 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I watched for the second time last nite the HBO documentary produced by a Japanese filmaker called White Light, Black Rain.

This movie has had a profound effect on me concerning these events....
First...utterly amazing that so many Japanese youths, even those who live in those cities, do not know about the 2 atomic bombs dropped on their cities in 1945...they don't know???...they have no clue???? How can that possibly be??? They reminded me of our own liberally educated and indocrinated kids today.
Next....what a horror show! Beyond belief! We had NO IDEA of what was going to happen there...NO IDEA!!! Perhaps the 2 single greatest crimes against innocent civilians in all history....un-bearable to watch and listen to the survivor's testimony. No one can know, hopefully no one will ever know what they endured for years and years. You cannot watch this without crying & cringing, and questioning everything you ever learned in school about Truman et al's decisions to drop the 2 bombs. I salute the filmmaker for making such an honest, personal, and enlightening educational program, and I could never find any adequate words to express my feelings for the survivors and their families.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA


"Sarah if the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us".
George H.W. Bush, 1992, in response to Sarah McClendon.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:29 AM

FREMDFIRMA


As for as "Liberal" education and "Indoctrination", lemme remind you that of the scientists who designed the bomb, Oppenheimer was a liberal who made an honest, concerted effort to forestall a nuclear arms race and potential nuclear war, and this got him pilloried, his security clearance revoked, and more or less run out of town on a rail.

Teller, on the other hand, was a rightwing nutter, a nihilist, and muchlike Billy Gates, a master at jacking other peoples ideas and claiming them as his own.

This is a guy who delighted in sandbagging Oppenheimer (who testified against his security clearance, in fact) even at the cost of slowing the research, and was in fact too cowardly to even attend the test of the bomb he helped design.

This is a guy so nuts he wanted to use nukes to excavate oil and coal resources, without even the common sense to realize how lunatic that was.
(See Also: Operation PLOWSHARE, Project CHARIOT)

And yet, even though Teller was OBVIOUSLY insane, which of the two did the Government honor more?

So if the "Liberals" you despise so much are so very horrible, then perhaps you'd like to explain to us why it is your so-called "Conservative" breathren who endlessly cover the world in violence and bloodshed, ehe ?

I don't like either end, but I'd rather have a plague of spotted owls than a dead radioactive wasteland.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
As for as "Liberal" education and "Indoctrination", lemme remind you that of the scientists who designed the bomb, Oppenheimer was a liberal who made an honest, concerted effort to forestall a nuclear arms race and potential nuclear war, and this got him pilloried, his security clearance revoked, and more or less run out of town on a rail.

Teller, on the other hand, was a rightwing nutter, a nihilist, and muchlike Billy Gates, a master at jacking other peoples ideas and claiming them as his own.

This is a guy who delighted in sandbagging Oppenheimer (who testified against his security clearance, in fact) even at the cost of slowing the research, and was in fact too cowardly to even attend the test of the bomb he helped design.

This is a guy so nuts he wanted to use nukes to excavate oil and coal resources, without even the common sense to realize how lunatic that was.
(See Also: Operation PLOWSHARE, Project CHARIOT)

And yet, even though Teller was OBVIOUSLY insane, which of the two did the Government honor more?

So if the "Liberals" you despise so much are so very horrible, then perhaps you'd like to explain to us why it is your so-called "Conservative" breathren who endlessly cover the world in violence and bloodshed, ehe ?

I don't like either end, but I'd rather have a plague of spotted owls than a dead radiactive wasteland.

-Frem


Hey you...yes you...angry nasty guy.....my reference to "liberal, etc." was concerning the disgusting fact that Japanese kids don't know about these events that took place in their own cities....their education system has all but eliminated references to those events...and that is very sad indeed.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 5:35 AM

KANEMAN


Are the planning on having an anniversary party?.....it would be a fucking blast

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 5:47 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hey you...yes you...angry nasty guy.....my reference to "liberal, etc." was concerning the disgusting fact that Japanese kids don't know about these events that took place in their own cities....their education system has all but eliminated references to those events...and that is very sad indeed.

So... how do you get to this being the fault of "liberals"?

I grew up in a conservative place, and the school board tried to strike down our history book for not being "pro-American" enough (a "stench in God's nostrils" was the phrase the lady used to describe the sections on the slaughter of Native Americans).

So yeah, I tend to see the re-coloring of history as a goal of conservatives. Maybe that's just my own limited experience speaking.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 6:04 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Jong

"my reference to "liberal, etc." was concerning the disgusting fact that Japanese kids don't know about these events () ... their education system has all but eliminated references to those events ..."

"Liberals" in Japan have absolutely nothing to do with the issue. Perhaps you should look up some simple facts before you post your usual pointless diatribes.


Japan has been purging all references to WWII for decades. And the Japanese public has been ignorant just as long.

"Visits to the (Yasukuni war shrine} by cabinet members have been a cause of protest at home and abroad. China, North Korea, South Korea and Taiwan have protested against various visits since 1985*. Despite the controversy, the former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi made annual visits from 2001 to 2006." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine and http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/108.cfm
(* 22 years ago)


As you can see, the history textbook controversy goes back more than 5 decades, FAR earlier than any supposed "liberal" Japanese government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies
Japanese history textbook controversies
2 The beginning of school textbook screening (1947)
3 Major controversies
3.1 “Ureubeki Kyōkasho” issue (1955)*
3.2 F-ko purge (1956)
3.3 Ienaga v. Japan (1965–1997)
3.4 Neighboring Country Clause (1982)
3.5 New History Textbook (2000)
3.6 Spring 2005 Anti-Japanese demonstrations in Asia
(* 52 years ago)


***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 7:14 AM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
First...utterly amazing that so many Japanese youths, even those who live in those cities, do not know about the 2 atomic bombs dropped on their cities in 1945...they don't know???...they have no clue???? How can that possibly be??? They reminded me of our own liberally educated and indocrinated kids today.
Next....what a horror show! Beyond belief! We had NO IDEA of what was going to happen there...NO IDEA!!! Perhaps the 2 single greatest crimes against innocent civilians in all history....un-bearable to watch and listen to the survivor's testimony. No one can know, hopefully no one will ever know what they endured for years and years. You cannot watch this without crying & cringing, and questioning everything you ever learned in school about Truman et al's decisions to drop the 2 bombs. I salute the filmmaker for making such an honest, personal, and enlightening educational program, and I could never find any adequate words to express my feelings for the survivors and their families.


Jong, You otta watch a documentary called "The Fog of War". It is the partial memoirs of Robert MacNamera, the secretary of defense for Kennedy and Johnson. He also happened to work for General Curtis Lemay, one of theee most bloodthirsty military leaders ever in terms of civilian body counts, effective though. He was an Air Corp General in the Pacific and was the one who ordered incendiary (fire) bombs to be dropped all over civilian areas of Japan after we took Iwo Jima. LeMay's bombing campaigns were trying for the Dresden Effect. My point is, LeMay leveled most of Japan's cities and killed 10 times as many innocent Japanese with conventional weapons before they used the A Bomb, the only diff to the Japanese was some radiation, and getting zapped with few milli rads was only one of the many many horrfic ways to die in Japan at that time. As for the Japanese, why even categorize the meathods used to slaughter thier countrymen, women, and children. We dwell on it in the US cuz it's our success. I've done business with the Japanese, and they don't celebrate or dwell on thier failures or past sufferings, that would be a bummer.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 7:36 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
First...utterly amazing that so many Japanese youths, even those who live in those cities, do not know about the 2 atomic bombs dropped on their cities in 1945...they don't know???...they have no clue???? How can that possibly be??? They reminded me of our own liberally educated and indocrinated kids today.
Next....what a horror show! Beyond belief! We had NO IDEA of what was going to happen there...NO IDEA!!! Perhaps the 2 single greatest crimes against innocent civilians in all history....un-bearable to watch and listen to the survivor's testimony. No one can know, hopefully no one will ever know what they endured for years and years. You cannot watch this without crying & cringing, and questioning everything you ever learned in school about Truman et al's decisions to drop the 2 bombs. I salute the filmmaker for making such an honest, personal, and enlightening educational program, and I could never find any adequate words to express my feelings for the survivors and their families.


Jong, You otta watch a documentary called "The Fog of War". It is the partial memoirs of Robert MacNamera, the secretary of defense for Kennedy and Johnson. He also happened to work for General Curtis Lemay, one of theee most bloodthirsty military leaders ever in term of civilian body counts, effective though. He was an Air Corp General in the Pacific and was the one who ordered incendiary (fire) bombs to be dropped all over civilian areas of Japan after we took Iwo Jima. LeMay's bombing campaigns were trying for the Dresden Effect. My point is, LeMay leveled most of Japan's cities and killed 10 times as many innocent Japanese with conventional weapons before they used the A Bomb, the only diff to the Japanese was some radiation, and getting zapped with few milli rads was only one of the many many horrfic ways to die in Japan at that time. As for the Japanese, why even categorize the meathods used to slaughter thier countrymen, women, and children. We dwell on it in the US cuz it's our success. I've done business with the Japanese, and they don't celebrate or dwell on thier failures or past sufferings, that would be a bummer.


Thank you for your informative and intelligent response. That's kind of what I understood about that time; the hard reality that even before the bombs were dropped Japan had all but officially surrendered, had no planes, no naval vessels, etc left, no ability to wage war or defend themselves other than from caves on the island. I also know that they were making peace gestures to America through the Russians, but back then all we could accept was unconditional surrender, and Truman was convinced an invasion of Japan proper would cost untold American lives, so hence the rush to drop the bombs. If Truman could have possibly known what he couldn't have known about the radiation fallout, he never would have authorized it. I think one big reason he did ok it was to scare the crap out of the Russians.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 8:33 AM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
the hard reality that even before the bombs were dropped Japan had all but officially surrendered, had no planes, no naval vessels, etc left, no ability to wage war or defend themselves other than from caves on the island.



I saw the documentary on this: http://pweb.netcom.com/~jb29miss/ on the History Channel, I haven't done much research so I can't say conclusively that it's correct but I haven't seen anything to refute it either. The basic gist of it is that the last raid on Japan (after The Bomb) derailed an attempt by the military to depose the Emperor and prevent him from recording and broadcasting the surrender message. The Japanese military leaders were intending to fight to the last.

Quote:

but back then all we could accept was unconditional surrender


It's not hard to see why, Germany started WW2 because of the issues caused by their conditional surrender in WW1, we didn't intend to make that mistake again.

Quote:

and Truman was convinced an invasion of Japan proper would cost untold American lives


I don't think there's any doubt, just look at Iwo Jima and Okinawa and what happened there.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 9:36 AM

SKYWALKEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Perhaps the 2 single greatest crimes against innocent civilians in all history....You cannot watch this without crying & cringing, and questioning everything you ever learned in school about Truman et al's decisions to drop the 2 bombs.



It's an historical fact that the Japanese were worse than the Nazis. They got what they deserved!

You think what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes. I challenge you to look at footage of what the Japs did in China. After that genocidal campaign, their horrific treatment of POWs (which included cannibalism) and their treachery at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese were lucky we didn't wipe out Tokyo and Kyoto.

Admiral William F. Halsey of the U.S. Navy said it best after he toured the devastation of Pearl Harber, "By the time we're through with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell."

Whenever I think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki...I smile.

http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

http://www.kimsoft.com/kr-japan.htm

http://www.users.bigpond.com/battleforaustralia/WarCrimeIntro.html

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 10:31 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Skywalken:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Perhaps the 2 single greatest crimes against innocent civilians in all history....You cannot watch this without crying & cringing, and questioning everything you ever learned in school about Truman et al's decisions to drop the 2 bombs.



It's an historical fact that the Japanese were worse than the Nazis. They got what they deserved!

You think what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes. I challenge you to look at footage of what the Japs did in China. After that genocidal campaign, their horrific treatment of POWs (which included cannibalism) and their treachery at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese were lucky we didn't wipe out Tokyo and Kyoto.

Admiral William F. Halsey of the U.S. Navy said it best after he toured the devastation of Pearl Harber, "By the time we're through with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell."

Whenever I think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki...I smile.


Your views are pretty much what my views have been all my life....but you have to stop and think....
The atrocities committed by the Japanese against Asian civilians were carried out by their military...not their civilians, women & children. The brutality and madness that was Nanking, Shanghai, Phillipines et al was beyond modern-day man's ability to comprehend. Truman dropped our bombs on innocents, women & children to get the military leaders to capitulate...and they did. But to say that "the Japanese" deserved it reduces Americans to the same eternal barbarity reserved in the history books for Nazis & Fascists. It was wrong, it was immoral, it was a grotesque act of violence committed against children....that's how I feel now. You don't have to agree with me, that's your right.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 11:17 AM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:. I think one big reason he did ok it was to scare the crap out of the Russians.

I think the Japanese would have died honorably fighting Americans to the death, A Bomb or not. It was the Emperor who chickened out. Then given the choice between Russians and the US, he made a choice. See...the emperor was someone who didn't mind sending young japanese boys off to die untill he might die himself, then he gave in, what a coward.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 6:16 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Thank you for your informative and intelligent response. That's kind of what I understood about that time; the hard reality that even before the bombs were dropped Japan had all but officially surrendered, had no planes, no naval vessels, etc left, no ability to wage war or defend themselves other than from caves on the island.



I beg to differ. Read up on the Battle of Okinawa if you want to see the kind of dug-in resistance the Allied forces would have faced if they had invaded mainland Japan with conventional forces.

Plus, the population was so heavily propagandized that civilians literally threw themselves off of cliffs with their children in their arms, rather than face the brutish, sub-human, baby-eating, child-raping American monsters. And that was on Okinawa, which bears about the same cultural ties to Japan that Puerto Rico does with the mainland U.S. (I.E. "not much".) Multiply by at least a factor of ten for any of the main islands.

As for the bombings of August: One can place the blame for Hiroshima where one wants; with Harry Truman for ordering them; with the crew of the Enola Gay for following through; with the scientists and engineers of the Manhattan Project all the way back to Einstein, whose letter to FDR started the ball rolling; and, of course, with FDR himself for initiating the research.

Blame any or all of them, individually or collectively for Hiroshima.

But the blame for the destruction of Nagasaki rests firmly at the feet of the military government of Japan, 1945. They had two days to surrender. Two Days, with the ultimate evidence of what would happen if they refused smoking in the rubble of Hiroshima. Instead, they chose to ignore the inevitable. That, I think, speaks volumes about their mindset, whatever modern revisionists might say.

And had Truman chosen not to drop the bombs? They already existed; the secrets of their construction would have leaked sooner or later. I think that, without the shining bad examples of Hiroshima and Nakasaki to slow things down, that we would have had at least one full-scale Nuclear exchange by now, probably more.

Sometimes peace has a horrible price.







Dr. Strangelove: The whole point of the doomsday machine is lost...if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?!

Russian Ambassador: It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 7:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Sometimes it does, but only if people remember and learn from it, and factually speaking, contrary to party line fictions, liberal folks ain't the ones who go around trying to bury the unpleasant and/or inconvenient bits of history.

Regardless of the cause, which could be debated no doubt endlessly, I concur that it's horror should not ever be forgotten - but it seems that it is....

Any political candidate of any party, creed, culture or religion on the freakin planet who even publicly contemplates using a nuclear weapon, militarily or not, should be taken out back and have some sense beaten into em, period.

To use the fire of the gods as a weapon is insane, and a blasphemy of all belief systems, even atheism, because even athiests value life.

But sadly, there are folks so evil that they do not, who practically masturbate to the carnage, and all too many of em hold political office.

Say what you will about Canada, they took one look at this insanity and dropped out of the nuclear arms race, and more power to em, we do horrors enough with conventional weapons.

Of course, some day one of DARPAs insane little black bag projects will prolly blow up the planet, much like in Caidins novel Star Bright.

If the idea was supposed to be that having nukes makes war too awful to contemplate, that gesture has failed, in that countries with them can ravage countries without them, while cowardly hiding behind the threatened ability to make large portions of our planet unlivable for significant lengths of time... we've driven THAT point home quite effectively, resulting in a second nuclear arms race whilst everyone scrambles to have one as a shield against our barbarity.

All that said, a nuke is like a gun, just a tool, without will or volition of it's own, and only as safe as the hands it is placed in.

The far scarier weapon is the insanity of elected officials, in ANY country who has them.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 8:03 AM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Any political candidate of any party, creed, culture or religion on the freakin planet who even publicly contemplates using a nuclear weapon, militarily or not, should be taken out back and have some sense beaten into em, period.
To use the fire of the gods as a weapon is insane, and a blasphemy of all belief systems, even atheism, because even athiests value life.


You must hate Curtis Lemay...or is it more evil if you drop a-bombs? Because Lemay set fire to way more Japanese than both A-Bombs x 10. I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, you are the history man! It's just that I don't get why nuclear warheads are any more evil than a biological weapon or an incendiary that kills the same 140,000 Japanese? And could ANY of that have been avoided, if so, what would Truman have done instead?


I have become death, the destroyer of worlds -R. Oppenheimer

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 9:14 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by RocketJock:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Thank you for your informative and intelligent response. That's kind of what I understood about that time; the hard reality that even before the bombs were dropped Japan had all but officially surrendered, had no planes, no naval vessels, etc left, no ability to wage war or defend themselves other than from caves on the island.



I beg to differ. Read up on the Battle of Okinawa if you want to see the kind of dug-in resistance the Allied forces would have faced if they had invaded mainland Japan with conventional forces.

Plus, the population was so heavily propagandized that civilians literally threw themselves off of cliffs with their children in their arms, rather than face the brutish, sub-human, baby-eating, child-raping American monsters. And that was on Okinawa, which bears about the same cultural ties to Japan that Puerto Rico does with the mainland U.S. (I.E. "not much".) Multiply by at least a factor of ten for any of the main islands.

As for the bombings of August: One can place the blame for Hiroshima where one wants; with Harry Truman for ordering them; with the crew of the Enola Gay for following through; with the scientists and engineers of the Manhattan Project all the way back to Einstein, whose letter to FDR started the ball rolling; and, of course, with FDR himself for initiating the research.

Blame any or all of them, individually or collectively for Hiroshima.

But the blame for the destruction of Nagasaki rests firmly at the feet of the military government of Japan, 1945. They had two days to surrender. Two Days, with the ultimate evidence of what would happen if they refused smoking in the rubble of Hiroshima. Instead, they chose to ignore the inevitable. That, I think, speaks volumes about their mindset, whatever modern revisionists might say.

And had Truman chosen not to drop the bombs? They already existed; the secrets of their construction would have leaked sooner or later. I think that, without the shining bad examples of Hiroshima and Nakasaki to slow things down, that we would have had at least one full-scale Nuclear exchange by now, probably more.

Sometimes peace has a horrible price.


Dr. Strangelove: The whole point of the doomsday machine is lost...if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?!

Russian Ambassador: It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises



Thanks for another thoughtful, well-written post here RocketJock. As I've posted here a few times, everything you have just said is exactly what I've been saying all my life. Yes, I'm well versed with Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan, etc...I've seen the World At War documentaries, Victory At Sea series and many others. I've seen the rare color footage shot by Frank Capra on Iwo Jima...I've seen the scores of kamikazes attacking our carriers off Okinawa, etc etc. Pretty amazing stuff...The many days of intense naval bombardment prior the beach landings, the use of flame throwers as war weapons, the black sand which got everything stuck on the beach, and all the rest. Our guys that hit those beaches were very brave and well trained. I just posted this to hopefully get people to see this current documentary on HBO about the 2 A-bombs...it changed my views dramatically.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 10:14 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Somehow I don't find this discussion - who started it, who did worse to whom - to be enlightening.



***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 12:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, you are the history man! It's just that I don't get why nuclear warheads are any more evil than a biological weapon or an incendiary that kills the same 140,000 Japanese?


You might find this a bit strange, but it's a religious issue with me, Malbad... I do not discuss my beliefs as a general rule, but that's one tenet I am willing to share - nuclear fire is the fire of the gods, and it's not meant for mankind to play with, and therefore utterly blasphemous to weaponize.

Like I said, you might find it strange, perhaps even somewhat primitive, but rest assured, I do firmly believe it.

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 12:40 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Somehow I don't find this discussion - who started it, who did worse to whom - to be enlightening.


You do realize that posting is optional?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
"Sarah if the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us".
George H.W. Bush, 1992, in response to Sarah McClendon.



Not a gorram thing about Hiroshima or Nagasaki, put pure, 100% bull shit. Interesting.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:55 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


BiggusD

"You do realize that posting is optional?"

Hunh ??? Is it a crime to gently suggest a diferent approach ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 3:40 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Hunh ??? Is it a crime to gently suggest a diferent approach ?


Here are some different approaches.
Did the two bombings bring an end to the war before countless others would be killed?
Are the 'bombs' worse than more conventional waepons?
Was the second bomb necessary?
Has the 'purging' of Japanese history helped or hindered Japanese culture and foreign relations?
Did Hiroshima and Nagasaki prevent during the Cold War and continue to prevent now, another bomb?
So go ahead and pick one of my different approaches, or one of your own, and run with it.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 9, 2007 4:12 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


It still comes down to the same childish approach. He started it ! Yeah but he did it worse back ! Did you start it ? But he was bugging me ! But he wouldn't let me play with the toy ... That's 'cause you always wreck it ..

---------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder what would have happened if the goal was not to defeat Japan, but merely surround and isolate it.


***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, August 10, 2007 3:30 AM

FREMDFIRMA


That's me maliciously yanking your chains, you asshats, which I plan to do each and every time the word liberal is used as a slur against people who think freedom is more important than dogma.

As for bull shit - deny he said it, go right ahead and try, you know he did, one of the few honest things that ever left that mans lips.

You wanna spew your little agenda here, imma mock it, laugh it out of town, and drive it off the rails whenever and however I please - you like to adjust reality so much in your own minds already, I don't think it'd be much of a stretch for you to pretend I'm agreeing with you and move on.

It's not like reality matters to you anyway, you and your ilk are by your own actions and admissions now the laughingstocks of RWED, and all the sock puppetry in the world ain't gonna change that.

As for the rest, regardless of the ryhme or reason, what happened was horrific, and if folks forget the lessons of history it dooms them to repeat them, that's why I use the sig I do - be nice if folks understood that, once in a while.

It's not about who was right or wrong, to me, it's about using the fire of the gods as a weapon in our petty little earthly conflicts, something we shoulda never done in the first place, and for damned sure should never, ever, do again.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, August 10, 2007 11:56 AM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Did the two bombings bring an end to the war before countless others would be killed?



Yes.

Quote:

Are the 'bombs' worse than more conventional waepons?


Debatable, they certainly cause a different kind of suffering among the survivors, and certainly a greater amount of suffering per bomb, but whether the suffering from an A-bomb attack or a firebombing raid is worse, well that I don't think can be quantified. I'm going to go with yes only because of the residual radiation.

Quote:

Was the second bomb necessary?


If that documentary I linked to earlier is true (again I haven't confirmed or refuted it) then yes, as the Emperor would have been deposed by the military leadership and the fight would have continued.

Quote:

Has the 'purging' of Japanese history helped or hindered Japanese culture and foreign relations?


I really can't even guess at this without thinking about it a lot more than I'm willing to right now (I'm at work)

Quote:

Did Hiroshima and Nagasaki prevent during the Cold War and continue to prevent now, another bomb?


Another bomb? Most likely. Another war? Almost certainly. I'd be surprised if we didn't have a World War III if we hadn't dropped the bomb.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Russian losses in Ukraine
Mon, March 18, 2024 23:45 - 982 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Mon, March 18, 2024 23:44 - 496 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:27 - 3338 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:09 - 709 posts
Elections; 2024
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:08 - 1982 posts
Grifter Donald Trump Has Been Indicted And Yes Arrested; Four Times Now And Counting. Hey Jack, I Was Right
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:06 - 753 posts
MO AG Suing Large Nationwide Child Sex-slave Trafficker
Mon, March 18, 2024 15:24 - 2 posts
New Peer-Reviewed Research Finds Evidence of 2020 Voter Fraud
Mon, March 18, 2024 15:21 - 7 posts
RCP's No Toss-Up State Map (3-15-2024)
Mon, March 18, 2024 15:19 - 2 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Mon, March 18, 2024 08:03 - 6091 posts
Israeli War
Mon, March 18, 2024 01:27 - 31 posts
CNN: Is the US on the brink of another civil war?
Mon, March 18, 2024 01:22 - 1 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL