REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Liberal Media Bias In Full View ( not! )

POSTED BY: SHINYED
UPDATED: Thursday, March 29, 2007 14:42
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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:20 AM

SHINYED


Well let's see....over the weekend some swell fellas from Iran decided to (once again) create an incident to derail the UN sanctions against them...last time it was ordering Hezbollah to attack Israel...this time they've brazenly siezed 15 British sailors on the high seas.

They're being interrogated, separated, and lord knows what else...AND WHERE IS THE AMERICAN MEDIA???...Barely a mention in the newspapers...I saw it on page 12 of the Sun Sentinal in Ft. Lauderdale & heard last night that the NY TImes also had it on page 12. NOW...in England I understand it's getting wide coverage....even from the anti-war BBC etc, but in America nary a peep.....why? This is a BIG story!..Oil prices are already going up....Great Britain is gonna do SOMETHING I would imagine, and soon for the sakes of the lives of those men. What is the Liberal media afraid of?

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 3:17 AM

CAUSAL


Maybe it's not so much a left/right bias as it is the perennial myopia of the American media. We pretty much think that if isn't happening in America--or at least to Americans--then it doesn't matter.

________________________________________________________________________
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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:37 AM

SHINYED


Causal....you make a good point about our "ego-centric" world attitude in America, however I believe that this story is being buried because the media does not want to engage the realities of a hostile and violent world ( that hurts Dems & anti-war crowd )...or any hint of breath about action against Iran.

Why do you think the mainstream media also buried the following story : The ex-President of Virginia ACLU was recently arrested and charged on multiple counts of possession & distribution of child pornography...now that in itself is bad, but maybe not newsworthy...EXCEPT that while he WAS President of the ACLU he successfully sued the Commonwealth of Virginia to strike down their Library filters of pornography on public computers on the libraries...He led that fight!!!...What a guy! A "champion" for free speech!!...what a bunch of bullshit!...Now he's un-covered to be a child pornographer slimeball....THE sanctimonious ACLU!!! & NO ONE, NOTHING anywhere ( 'cept Fox ) is telling this story! When his trial starts soon, maybe then it'll get some coverage, but I doubt it.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:54 AM

KANEMAN


ShinyEd, you know exactly why it is being buried. I want to know why the British didn't defend themselves. The CIA had warned them that this was going to happen two months ago. I think the big story here is that the British Navy has been deballed and it seems they will do nothing in return. I understand they were out numbered and out gunned, but come on the Brits need to man up. We all know what Iran is up to. I think America should stick up for it's ugly step son and drop a tomahawk missile on Ahmadinejad's head the next time he gives a speech before the Iranian people. Just a thought.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:54 AM

ERIC


Now I get most of my news from Yahoo and CNN, which is pretty much just AP cut & paste, and I've been hearing about this story for several days. I've also heard about it on NPR, that wussyass liberal pinko terrorist-loving radio station, and the words they used to describe the seizure was 'kidnapped.'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/ap_on_re_mi_ea/british_seized_iran

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/27/iran.uk.sailors/index.html

This is between Britain and Iran, so you can't use it as an excuse for American 'action,' by which you mean war. The UN Security Council HAS unanimously voted for sanctions against Iran, but I guess that's not as much fun as war...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070325/ts_afp/irannuclearpolitics_070325
084513


BTW, those sailors were not kidnapped on the 'high seas,' they were in a disputed waterway on the Iran-Iraq border. Not that that makes it right, but it's more accurate.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:22 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:
Maybe it's not so much a left/right bias as it is the perennial myopia of the American media. We pretty much think that if isn't happening in America--or at least to Americans--then it doesn't matter.

I posted this on Serenitymovie.org's RWE, another site mostly dominated by Americans, and it wasn't exactly ignored, but it was deemed undebate worthy. I didn't even bother posting it here.

I do wonder what the responce would be if the headline were "15 US soldiers and Marines captured by Iran".

As for why they 'allowed' themselves to be captured, it was too dirigibles against several armoured gunboats as I hear. I've heard of the mighty American military (not to mention many others) turn and run or surrender to much more favorable odds.



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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:05 AM

SHINYED


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
I do wonder what the responce would be if the headline were "15 US soldiers and Marines captured by Iran".
As for why they 'allowed' themselves to be captured, it was too dirigibles against several armoured gunboats as I hear. I've heard of the mighty American military (not to mention many others) turn and run or surrender to much more favorable odds.


Interesting!....15 Americans captured by Iranian gunboats?....I think as much as they would hate it, the media...even NBC..would HAVE to cover the story...of course they'd spin it to blame Bush somehow for it.

As I understand it, the Bristish have different engagement rules than Americans...I think (?) they can only fire if fired upon....whereas we freedom-loving Americans just shoot up anything that moves, and then issue apologies for all the innocents later.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:10 AM

SHINYED


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
ShinyEd, you know exactly why it is being buried.


Sure I do....but if I post my true thoughts here at FFF, I'll be dismissed as a neo-con zealot asshole troll....so better to just post with news and questions....less on the personal opinions stuff.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:19 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


It's not being 'buried'. These are from the top / front pages of online news:

NYTimes
Blair Strengthens Message to Iran Over Britons
By GRAHAM BOWLEY and SARAH LYALL 10:54 AM ET
Prime Minister Tony Blair said today that Britain is prepared to move into a “different phase” if diplomacy fails.

USAToday
world | 7h 10m ago | Comments 144 | Recommend 19
U.S. launches show of force in Gulf

Yahoo
Iran: British sailors treated humanely AP - 2 hours, 29 minutes ago

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:32 AM

KANEMAN


RUSE,
"It's not being 'buried'. These are from the top / front pages of online news:"

I think ShinyEd was talking about the main stream American press. The average American, who doesn't sit at a comp., doesn't know about this. You don't see it on the nightly news or the front pages of the papers around here. And what took so long for the little coverage to start? Surely, if they were American soldiers, this would have been GIANT news. We all know why it's not....let's start being honest.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:35 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

I posted this on Serenitymovie.org's RWE, another site mostly dominated by Americans, and it wasn't exactly ignored, but it was deemed undebate worthy.



What's to debate? The Iranians are in the wrong.
The British government has to make the call about what to do about it.

They're calling the Iranian ambassador to ( Whitehall, or Parliament, or Westminster, or wherever they call an ambassador to chew him out). According to reports, the siezed troops are not being abused. The Iranians won't let the British ambassador see them, which is not right either.

The last time this happened, the Iranians decided that the Brits had accidentally violated Iranian waters, and finally let them go. If the British are patient, rthat'll happen again, especially since at least one Iranian spokesman was softening his story yesterday.

And a question for anybody actually British: supposedly these guys were off of a British warship. What was it doing while they were being captured and hauled away? Wandering around somewhere over the horizon? Checking out another ship? Why didn't it go to General Quarters and attack, to protect its own?


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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:43 AM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:
Maybe it's not so much a left/right bias as it is the perennial myopia of the American media. We pretty much think that if isn't happening in America--or at least to Americans--then it doesn't matter.

I posted this on Serenitymovie.org's RWE, another site mostly dominated by Americans, and it wasn't exactly ignored, but it was deemed undebate worthy. I didn't even bother posting it here.

I do wonder what the responce would be if the headline were "15 US soldiers and Marines captured by Iran".

As for why they 'allowed' themselves to be captured, it was too dirigibles against several armoured gunboats as I hear. I've heard of the mighty American military (not to mention many others) turn and run or surrender to much more favorable odds.



All it would take would be a ten-day trip to a European country to disabuse any American that there's nothing of significance outside the U.S. (or then again, maybe not). But still--once you've stood in a church that antedates the founding of your nation by 600 years, it's tough to have to exalted a notion of your nation's place in the world.

Or maybe a tour in a combat zone would do it. But then, I think everybody should have to do that. Turns down the emotional noise on everything else for the rest of your life.

________________________________________________________________________
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Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police


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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:46 AM

KANEMAN


"And a question for anybody actually British: supposedly these guys were off of a British warship. What was it doing while they were being captured and hauled away? Wandering around somewhere over the horizon? Checking out another ship? Why didn't it go to General Quarters and attack, to protect its own?"

Short answer:
The British no longer have the balls to stand up to an Islamo-extremist rouge nation. They are afraid of muslims and have become apologists. Mighty Britain that once was is gone. Great leaders like Churchill have been replaced by tea sipping wusses who haven't got the bachombas to defend itself. They would rather ignore the obvious threat growing around them by placing their heads in the sand... than admitting what we all know and fighting for their survival. That is just my opinion....

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:49 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Surely, if they were American soldiers, this would have been GIANT news. We all know why it's not....let's start being honest."

Because they're NOT American? I agree, US news coverage of anything NOT American is piss-poor.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:52 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Whitehall, or Parliament, or Westminster, or wherever they call an ambassador to chew him out)

Parliment is in Whitehall which is in Westminster, so they all could be correct. I doubt the ambassador would actually go into Parliment though.
Quote:

And a question for anybody actually British: supposedly these guys were off of a British warship. What was it doing while they were being captured and hauled away? Wandering around somewhere over the horizon? Checking out another ship? Why didn't it go to General Quarters and attack, to protect its own?
I'm not entirely sure of all the information, but yes there was a Mothership a type 22 Frigate. But it's entirely possible the Frigate knew nothing of it until the capture was complete, it happened very quickly. And by that time what are they to do? Sink the boats their people are on?

It's never that simple as "we have bigger ships, we win, Hooyah!" even if simpletons such as Kaneman think so. I doubt anything significantly different would have happened if it were Americans.



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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:59 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I suspect people don't remember when the Chinese brought a US plane down and captured its crew. Bush huffed and puffed - and finally caved. The crew was eventually returned in good health, but on the Chinese timetable, not the US's. And the place was returned much later, in pieces.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:01 AM

KANEMAN


"It's never that simple as "we have bigger ships, we win, Hooyah!" even if simpletons such as Kaneman think so'

Actually, it is that simple. Keep the personal attacks to your self. After the USS Cole incident, we canned that lame rule of engagement in the Gulf. Britain should follow suit....Or don't.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:03 AM

KANEMAN


Let's not compare Iran with China...I mean seriously that was weak. I have come to expect more from the Ruse.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:04 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
"It's never that simple as "we have bigger ships, we win, Hooyah!" even if simpletons such as Kaneman think so'

Actually, it is that simple.

Obviously no one informed the North Vietnamese of that.


And I reserve the right to call a spade a spade.



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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:09 AM

KANEMAN


Oops, I forgot about the Vietnamese navy.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:10 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Canker sore

"Lets' not compare Iran to China ..." Let's not compare Bush to Blair, then. That IS weak.

(Since you called me Ruse, I'll go back to calling you Canker Sore. You earned it all on your very own. Wow.)

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:12 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Canker sore


Let's no compare Bush to Blair, then. That IS weak.

(Since you called me Ruse, I'll go back to calling you Canker Sore.)



Never intended to.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:15 AM

SHINYED


Anyone remember the USS Pueblo?

In the 70's I believe...a small US naval vessel in International waters seized by North Korean gunboats....those American sailors and officers were held captive for months, beaten & tortured...and what did the USA ever do 'bout that?????...answer : Squat!...Nada!

Is it any wonder that after Vietnam, after Pueblo, after Teheran hostages (79-80) after Madrid, after Mogidishu, after USS Cole,...etc etc etc ...the Civilized World has PANDERED & APPEASED all the brutes, thugs, and mass murderers to the point where they don't fear us...they dont fear retaliation..they dont fear anything! ...and we just sit there with our Candidesque stupidity and let these countries get away with whatever transgressions they want....well as long as we still can get our precious oil, we dont give a F 'bout anything anymore.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:24 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Oops, I forgot about the Vietnamese navy.

You're abillity for the obtuse is near miraculous.

Should I rest the Simpleton case?



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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I personally think that Blair should do what the Reagan Administration did:

Sell arms, nuclear technology, or whatever the hell else Iran wants in exchange for prisoner release while loudy proclaiming never to negotiate with terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:16 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I personally think that Blair should do what the Reagan Administration did:

Sell arms, nuclear technology, or whatever the hell else Iran wants in exchange for prisoner release while loudy proclaiming never to negotiate with terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair


You mean buisness as ussual?



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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:17 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


But Reagan....

Posting to stir stuff up.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You mean buisness as ussual?

Yep, pretty much.


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:23 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
But Reagan....

Well that's not what was being done, was it? Legitimising a responce by dragging up what a past person did?

No, but I get that it's only Bush supporters that are allowed to do such things.



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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:23 AM

CITIZEN


This double post bought to you by Saxo-Glythcline, makers of Paracetemoxyfrusinbendronyomicin.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:34 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


S'wenyways, Iran captured the Brits on the 23rd. Despite the fact that they're NOT US citizens (a big factor), and it DOESN'T involve the US, and the news is now days old, it's STILL on the front page of the 'liberal' NYTimes (print and e), lowbrow USAToday (print and e), and Yahoo.

For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone thinks this is being hidden. How much less hidden can it be besides top of front page news?

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Someone needs to jump outta the boob toob, jam a funnel into everyones' ears and POUR the news in!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:36 AM

KANEMAN


"But in dealing with a regime like Iran one has to be realistic. The American search for elusive Iranian moderates is a recurring and mostly fruitless theme since the (Iranian) revolution in 1979."

The British should learn this lesson as soon as it can. It will save her time and trouble. There is know doubt what Iran wants, what it intends to do when it gets it, and the only way to stop it. Israel is going to do the dirty work in the end. They seem to understand Iran's ill-intent, and will man up when push comes to shove...Enjoy the tea........

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:39 AM

KANEMAN


"You're abillity for the obtuse is near miraculous."

Thank you.....

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:16 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Hey SmarmyEd..., sorry..ShinyEd....you're a real hoot!...In one post you advise not posting personal feelings to avoid being labeled a troll, and then in the following post you go on one of your mini-rants!

Here's my opinion about this Iran- British Navy thing....::::Not only should Great Britain declare war on Iran (as seizing soldiers is an act of war), they should also blockade & embargo and financially strangle Iran. They should also work with the USA to try in a US or World Court Mr. Achminassholeijhad in absentia for the 1979 Teheran kidnappings and seizure of American property..plenty of eye-witnesses still alive to testify...by the books ( or anti-Bush/Cheney methodology)...get ALL the "legal shit" outta the way before any serious retaliation, and then bring it all down like a ton...with strong and impactful acts against Iran...not a shooting war folks, just lots of well-deserved pressure. The unfortunate realities of Russia & China however, must be considered in advance as well...surely big America & wise England can find a way to make Russia & Putin change his loyalty away from Iran and to us...right??? Is it ONLY about thier f'ing oil to the Rooskies??? Dont they give half a crap if Iran starts wars using Hezbollah, seizes British seamen, funds & trains & promotes the slaughter in Iraq ( not America folks...we're the GOOD GUYS), and is finishing off their nukes....attached of course to the Clinton/Gore biggest campaign donors..the Chinese missles to attack the Middle east & Europe & Russia...Surely Putin cant be THAT much of a fucking NEADERTHAL ...not to make deals with the DEVIL>>>>He should remember, or learn first, that Stalin made deals with Hitler, and that turned into 20 million dead fucking Russians....So is it just a Russian thing that their "leaders" care absolutley not one iota for their population??? ...AND the Chinese...well SOMEBODY ought to remind those fine gents how many British & American soldiers died in WWII rescuing their defenseless country from the 12-year Japanese occupation and onslaught of mass death, mass rape, and mass starvation...Remember that Mr Han? or that doesn't matter either anymore? Now...we're all facing the Iranian fallout in the coming decade.
The WHOLE WORLD NEEDS TO UNITE AGAINST IRAN....for the sake of the whole world!

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 1:24 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hey SmarmyEd..., sorry..ShinyEd....you're a real hoot!...In one post you advise not posting personal feelings to avoid being labeled a troll, and then in the following post you go on one of your mini-rants!

Here's my opinion about this Iran- British Navy thing....::::Not only should Great Britain declare war on Iran (as seizing soldiers is an act of war), they should also blockade & embargo and financially strangle Iran. They should also work with the USA to try in a US or World Court Mr. Achminassholeijhad in absentia for the 1979 Teheran kidnappings and seizure of American property..plenty of eye-witnesses still alive to testify...by the books ( or anti-Bush/Cheney methodology)...get ALL the "legal shit" outta the way before any serious retaliation, and then bring it all down like a ton...with strong and impactful acts against Iran...not a shooting war folks, just lots of well-deserved pressure. The unfortunate realities of Russia & China however, must be considered in advance as well...surely big America & wise England can find a way to make Russia & Putin change his loyalty away from Iran and to us...right??? Is it ONLY about thier f'ing oil to the Rooskies??? Dont they give half a crap if Iran starts wars using Hezbollah, seizes British seamen, funds & trains & promotes the slaughter in Iraq ( not America folks...we're the GOOD GUYS), and is finishing off their nukes....attached of course to the Clinton/Gore biggest campaign donors..the Chinese missles to attack the Middle east & Europe & Russia...Surely Putin cant be THAT much of a fucking NEADERTHAL ...not to make deals with the DEVIL>>>>He should remember, or learn first, that Stalin made deals with Hitler, and that turned into 20 million dead fucking Russians....So is it just a Russian thing that their "leaders" care absolutley not one iota for their population??? ...AND the Chinese...well SOMEBODY ought to remind those fine gents how many British & American soldiers died in WWII rescuing their defenseless country from the 12-year Japanese occupation and onslaught of mass death, mass rape, and mass starvation...Remember that Mr Han? or that doesn't matter either anymore? Now...we're all facing the Iranian fallout in the coming decade.
The WHOLE WORLD NEEDS TO UNITE AGAINST IRAN....for the sake of the whole world!




Hello,
My name is Kaneman and I endorse this message. Shit, really fu*king endorse this message........

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Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:04 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Hello,
My name is Kaneman and I endorse this message. Shit, really fu*king endorse this message


Thanks a lot Kaneman! I certainly didn't intend to go off like I did, but once I got started, it just flowed out....I know you like & frequently go for the extreme, but judging by the fact that my post & your response literally stopped this thread dead in its' tracks I wonder why no other person seemingly has no reaction to the harsh truths I posted.....or maybe it's just that it was way too trollific for most....also, all my sympathies to you over your heartbreaking loss.

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Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:51 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Hello,
My name is Kaneman and I endorse this message. Shit, really fu*king endorse this message


Thanks a lot Kaneman! I certainly didn't intend to go off like I did, but once I got started, it just flowed out....I know you like & frequently go for the extreme, but judging by the fact that my post & your response literally stopped this thread dead in its' tracks I wonder why no other person seemingly has no reaction to the harsh truths I posted.....or maybe it's just that it was way too trollific for most....also, all my sympathies to you over your heartbreaking loss.



JS,
They never have a response to harsh truthey kind of stuff. They never will. I am called a toll by most on this board, but I get more e-mails from lurkers saying they agree with me than any of these nutt-bags. I say in front of all ...I agree with you........If that makes you a 'TROLL', I apologize..

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Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:04 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
I do wonder what the responce would be if the headline were "15 US soldiers and Marines captured by Iran".
As for why they 'allowed' themselves to be captured, it was too dirigibles against several armoured gunboats as I hear. I've heard of the mighty American military (not to mention many others) turn and run or surrender to much more favorable odds.


Interesting!....15 Americans captured by Iranian gunboats?....I think as much as they would hate it, the media...even NBC..would HAVE to cover the story...of course they'd spin it to blame Bush somehow for it.

As I understand it, the Bristish have different engagement rules than Americans...I think (?) they can only fire if fired upon....whereas we freedom-loving Americans just shoot up anything that moves, and then issue apologies for all the innocents later.



Or Iranian sailors in same disputed waterway grabbed by the US ?

Would the US act much differently ?

I doubt it




" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12


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Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:19 AM

SHINYED


You seem to either have a soft spot for Iran, or a dark heart for America. I suggest you move to Iran and live there for a spell....I think you'd love it...
Internet ...not
Firefly....not
Women's rights....not
Democracy....not
Personal freedom....not
Then they'll kidnap your family and force you to become a suicide bomber for them in Iraq...but hey, since there's no moral, ethical, or historical equivalency issues here for you, you won't mind any of that....and don't forget to send me a postcard from Sharia Training School.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:47 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ShinyEd:
You seem to either have a soft spot for Iran, or a dark heart for America. I suggest you move to Iran and live there for a spell....I think you'd love it...
Internet ...not
Firefly....not
Women's rights....not
Democracy....not
Personal freedom....not
Then they'll kidnap your family and force you to become a suicide bomber for them in Iraq...but hey, since there's no moral, ethical, or historical equivalency issues here for you, you won't mind any of that....and don't forget to send me a postcard from Sharia Training School.



ShinyEd,
GB has been spouting his hatred for the US for as long as I have been here. I have a sneaky suspicion he DOES live in the Middle East, or he is some hairy-backed thong wearing Italian living somewhere along the mediterranean.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:34 AM

KHYRON


It almost seems like Iran is trying to provoke an attack. Wars have been started over less.

This is somewhat disturbing:

On the streets of Tehran the political temperature also appears to be rising. Demonstrators have besieged the British embassy calling on their government to execute the "British spies".

http://www.euronews.net/index.php?page=info&article=414279&lng=1

At this point military action against Iran would be more justified than military action against Iraq was. It's obvious that they're up to no good, that whole nuclear energy program is a joke since the country's practically swimming on a lake of oil.



"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


also, all my sympathies to you over your heartbreaking loss.
Kaneman lost something?

I get more e-mails from lurkers saying they agree with me than any of these nutt-bags
Yeah, sure. And I'm Queen of the May.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
On the streets of Tehran the political temperature also appears to be rising. Demonstrators have besieged the British embassy calling on their government to execute the "British spies".

If that happened there would be no choice but to declare war. It is also very clear that the Iranians were not justified in taking British personnel, and not only invaded Iraqi territory but committed an act of War on Britain at the same time. Technically they've declared war on three sovereign nations, Iraq (thereby the US and Britain as Iraq is tantamount to a protectorate whatever the current American public position) and Britain outright through the illegal seizure of military personnel.

However, Britain simply hasn't the resources to attack Iran, if they did Iran wouldn't dare be so openly belligerent, America does (just about) have the resources to propagate a conflict with Iran (though not the resources to hold the territory, the US could certainly kick over Ahmadinejad sand castles) which is, I imagine why the Iranians aren't seizing US personnel.

But the current situation aside if we really had wanted to see democracy spread in the Middle East Iran would have been the place to start, and not by blowing shit up by the way. They already have democracy, okay not the perfect representation of it but I find the protestations of Americans about rigged elections and candidates under the thumb of this or that group rather hypocritical. So Iran's candidates are selected by religious leaders? Americas are mostly in the pocket of one corporation or another or taking their cues from Christian Fanatics.

I'm not suggesting that America is a Christian version of Iran, obviously (though I rather suspect a vast swath of the Christian Fundamentalists and Evangelicals of America would rather like that) what I am saying is that the Iranian people do have some semblance of Democracy and they want more, and with gentle coaxing and diplomacy not at the edge of a ballistic missile you'd find slowly but surely Iran would have become ever more democratic.

But of course such a course would have been utterly devoid of the big bangs and pretty fireworks that keep the voting public waving flags and cheering, so is of course utterly unacceptable.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:54 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
also, all my sympathies to you over your heartbreaking loss.

Kaneman lost something?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.



Yep, my horse Mable. If you would take your head out of your ass, take a break from bashing the US, and go to other threads besides RWE. You would know that my horse is coming to a bottle of Elmer's very soon.......

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:58 PM

KANEMAN


"Yeah, sure. And I'm Queen of the May."

What's up queen of May? Wait a second! How can you be queen? From the circumcised thread I have already decided you have that funny looking pecker...What gives?

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:01 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
On the streets of Tehran the political temperature also appears to be rising. Demonstrators have besieged the British embassy calling on their government to execute the "British spies".

If that happened there would be no choice but to declare war. It is also very clear that the Iranians were not justified in taking British personnel, and not only invaded Iraqi territory but committed an act of War on Britain at the same time. Technically they've declared war on three sovereign nations, Iraq (thereby the US and Britain as Iraq is tantamount to a protectorate whatever the current American public position) and Britain outright through the illegal seizure of military personnel.

However, Britain simply hasn't the resources to attack Iran, if they did Iran wouldn't dare be so openly belligerent, America does (just about) have the resources to propagate a conflict with Iran (though not the resources to hold the territory, the US could certainly kick over Ahmadinejad sand castles) which is, I imagine why the Iranians aren't seizing US personnel.

But the current situation aside if we really had wanted to see democracy spread in the Middle East Iran would have been the place to start, and not by blowing shit up by the way. They already have democracy, okay not the perfect representation of it but I find the protestations of Americans about rigged elections and candidates under the thumb of this or that group rather hypocritical. So Iran's candidates are selected by religious leaders? Americas are mostly in the pocket of one corporation or another or taking their cues from Christian Fanatics.

I'm not suggesting that America is a Christian version of Iran, obviously (though I rather suspect a vast swath of the Christian Fundamentalists and Evangelicals of America would rather like that) what I am saying is that the Iranian people do have some semblance of Democracy and they want more, and with gentle coaxing and diplomacy not at the edge of a ballistic missile you'd find slowly but surely Iran would have become ever more democratic.

But of course such a course would have been utterly devoid of the big bangs and pretty fireworks that keep the voting public waving flags and cheering, so is of course utterly unacceptable.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.



I actually agree with Citz post...Sorry Citz...

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:39 PM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
I actually agree with Citz post...

That's just because it's a completely sensible post. But the question is to find a diplomatic way to get the hardline Iranian government, which doesn't care much about diplomacy, to budge.



"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
I do wonder what the responce would be if the headline were "15 US soldiers and Marines captured by Iran".



You know mine:

Very unfortunate, but they knew what they were signing up for. You know I'd say the same thing about US soldiers too. I already have.

Does anybody think the US or the UK wouldn't do this to the Iranians if they were trolling around our airspace where they didn't belong? If they were here, we might consider two Iranian dirigibles on our airspace as an act of war. We all know GWB is just itching for an excuse.

And I don't fault them for surrendering either. This is real life.... Too many people have seen 300 I think.




Sorry to hear about your horse Kaneman


"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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