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All email to be monitored...

POSTED BY: STORYMARK
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 16:06
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Monday, February 12, 2007 10:39 AM

STORYMARK


If some Republicans get their way, email, IMs and all other internet activity will be recorded and turnedover to the Government.

Quote:

A bill introduced last week by Representative Lamar Smith (R-TX) is beginning to raise eyebrows.

[It] would require ISPs to record all users' surfing activity, IM conversations and email traffic indefinitely.

The bill, dubbed the Safety Act by sponsor Lamar Smith, a republican congressman from Texas, would impose fines and a prison term of one year on ISPs which failed to keep full records.



Full article: http://agonist.org/josh_nelson/20070211/action_congress_wants_to_monit
or_all_emails_ims_etc


Cue the Bushies to come in talking about how if we didn't have anything to hide....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, February 12, 2007 10:56 AM

CITIZEN


What are you worried about? Got something to hide have you? Something you don't want known? If you weren't a terrorists it wouldn't worry you!!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:19 AM

KHYRON


You mean, they're not doing all of that already?



The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:24 AM

GLADIATOR32


Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
You mean, they're not doing all of that already?



I was wondering that, too

-------------------------------

www.myspace.com/32dan32

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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Kinda reminds me of the *Echelon program that the President was allowing, which recorded all telecommunications , everwhere across the globe.

Oh, wait. That was Clinton. Never mind.


*Echelon got its start in the Cold War years and carried on through the Clinton yrs. Bush 'allegedly' put an end to it, but some still doubt its demise.


People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. " k

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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:28 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kinda reminds me of the Carnosaur program that the President was allowing, which recorded all telecommunications , everwhere across the globe.

Oh, wait. That was Clinton. Never mind.






Okay, so you got your obligatory Clinton jab in.

How about addressing the situation at hand?


To everyone else: I know, I know. Don't feed the Trolls.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:43 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, so you got your obligatory Clinton jab in.

How about addressing the situation at hand?

Altogether now:

BUT CLINTON...





More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 3:20 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


I like how it's innocently named the Safety Act. Hides the evil intent.

The thing about "if you didn't have anything to hide" is this: maybe you don't think you have anything to hide. But, what if they use this information to target people for being dissenters, or radical elements (be they religious or political)? If they're given this, who's to stop them from encroaching further? That's my fear.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 4:04 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


If this gets any votes I'll be very disappointed in America.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, February 12, 2007 4:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


As for the situation at hand, I don't care for it. I think it's an unnecessary intrustion. I don't see it getting very far in the House.

I also didn't care for the 'Know your customer' bill which was introduced, but failed, a few yrs ago as well. It instructed the banks to keep tabs of certain individuals and ordered their transactions to be passed onto the IRS.


How's about you lay off the troll nonsense. I've always been up front , honest and straight w/ my answers. You not agreeing w/ me doesn't make me a 'troll'. Such ad hominems only weaken your case, not mine.



People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, February 12, 2007 5:03 PM

STORYMARK


Thank you for responding to the topic. Here happens to be an issue that we agree upon. What do ya know, wonder never cease.

Had you discussed the issue up front, we would have had some common ground without the attitude - from either of us.

But your original response is why you get the troll comments. We agreed, yet you still had to get a jab in, and not comment on the issue at hand.

That is why it weakens your position, regardless of how much debate team vocabulary you know.

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
As for the situation at hand, I don't care for it. I think it's an unnecessary intrustion. I don't see it getting very far in the House.

I also didn't care for the 'Know your customer' bill which was introduced, but failed, a few yrs ago as well. It instructed the banks to keep tabs of certain individuals and ordered their transactions to be passed onto the IRS.


How's about you lay off the troll nonsense. I've always been up front , honest and straight w/ my answers. You not agreeing w/ me doesn't make me a 'troll'. Such ad hominems only weaken your case, not mine.



People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, February 12, 2007 5:09 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Read the bill:
"This Act may be cited as the `Internet Stopping Adults Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act (SAFETY) of 2007'"
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.837:

Somebody wants to be known as taking a stand against internet child pornography. This will die quietly in committee, if it gets that far. If it does get to the floor, we'll all be writing our Congresspeople.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, February 12, 2007 5:13 PM

RMMC


Quote:

Originally posted by Gladiator32:
Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
You mean, they're not doing all of that already?



I was wondering that, too



Yeah, I thought the No Such Agency had this in it's bailiwick already. Or is it that the CIA and the FBI are feeling left out?

*****
RMMC

When we're down, don't frown. Come join the camp-out at serenitymovie.org.


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Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:03 AM

SHINYED


I surf web sites every day...been doing that for about 9 years. I also send & receive a lot of e-mails every day at home & work.

As I'm going from site to site I sometimes wonder if indeed anybody would ever be "tracking" where I go or what I do....if so would I ever have a problem with "exposure" of my visited sites....and the answer is NO.

In this world we live in now, you can never be 100% sure of your privacy......there could be a camera on you right now....just standing there smoking your cigarette, or hitching up your pants, or scratching your nose....Big Brother is watching!

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Friday, March 9, 2007 2:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


If the Repugs get their way, I'm going to have the thought police take me away in the middle of the night.

I'm not at all convinced that the Demons would have it any other way either.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, March 9, 2007 7:36 AM

RUE


Justice Dept.: FBI misused Patriot Act
AP - 12 minutes ago WASHINGTON - The FBI improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA Patriot Act to secretly obtain personal information about people in the United States, a Justice Department audit concluded Friday.

I've been harping on this kind of thing for years. The development of 'super' databases, warrantless searches, loss of habeas corpus and the loss of freedom and the rise of fascism in the US. Why is it that both the Bushites AND the so-called libertarians are so passive abut this?

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Friday, March 9, 2007 4:17 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Oh, I thought this was about The Alliance. Carry on.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"We can be Heroes.... if just for one day."[/]

~Peter* Peter* power Re-peater~

What do you mean I have to wait
6 fricken weeks for Heroes?

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Friday, March 9, 2007 4:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I've been called crazy conspiracy theorist for years. At least I can shut up about that stuff long enough in real life that people don't realize just how much I dwell on this kind of stuff.

I don't know how much you know about computers, but I knew quite a bit about them before they became the cool thing kids were doing. I lived in Illinois when they first started the I-Pass there. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that system, and I won't pretend to know all the inner-workings, but it uses remote capability to take your money from a little box you attach to your windshield which you resupply online when it runs low. It started out as a convenience for rich business types and slowly gained more subscribers and became much more widely available when they went on the net, but 2 years ago Governor Blagoyovich doubled the toll for people who didn't get the I-Pass for their car.... now almost everybody who uses the tollway regularly uses the I-Pass in Illinois.

My first thoughts on it were:

1) Between cell phones and I-Pass, they pretty much have a good idea of where you're at at any given time now.

2) Once they get enough people on the I-Pass, they're going to start issuing tickets to speeders via the mail without the need for any cop to have ever seen them speeding. It doesn't take a genius to realize that it takes a computer microseconds to figure out that if you went from point A to point B in X seconds that you were going 20 miles over the limit.

I've told people about this for about 5 years, but nobody listens. I'm just the guy who's never happy with anything in the world. I'm under the impression that every single call we have ever made with a cellphone is compressed and sitting in an archive somewhere too... along with every email and blog post. I realize I could be wrong about this, and I'm well aware of the massive amount of storage capacity it would require to do this as well. But I'm also convinced that the computer technology we're using now is 20 or 30 years old already and most people couldn't even imagine what is really out there already. If you had all the computing power in the world, would you release it all to the masses at once, or would you let them remain 30 years behind the curve with inferior equipment that you can resell to them every 3 or 4 years or so when their stuff is outdated compared to the Status Quo?

Still, even knowing this it still doesn't stop me from posting this stuff online. I really think that if they ever throw that Constitution out the window that I'm one of the first people they're coming after, and I'm confident that if I ever tried to run for political office, it would only take seconds for the opposition to pull up posts I made 10 or 20 years ago and ruin my credibility by either making me look like a looney or a Communist or whatever the bad word of the day is.

Good luck getting that message out Rue. Nobody wants to listen. You're interrupting American Idol.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, March 9, 2007 4:58 PM

PENGUIN


Amen, brother...




King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Friday, March 9, 2007 6:24 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


I don't think they care enough to actually go through all the Internet (assuming that anyone has enough time and equipment to store it all). It's like security cameras in schools - they certainly don't pay someone to watch them all the time; they just check them if there's a theft, or vandalism.

Besides, it seems like an awful money-waster. Most of the Internet is relatively innocent (except when looking up "nun" on Google Images ).

Granted, all the information ever posted on the Internet is still out there... somewhere... and it's probably hard to get to. But, if someone was really smart and persistent enough...


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Friday, March 9, 2007 6:41 PM

KONEKOKEITA


You know, I work in Security, and you're right...you think we watch EVERYTHING all the time? Neh. You're right, it's more to keep a record of what's happened or to keep an eye on something that someone has informed us is happening. To watch everything and everyone at once is just a waste of resources. People can whine about statistics if they wish, but you can still tell a shoplifter mostly by looks, believe it or not.

...and isn't Yahoo Chat already doing something like this, and has suddenly found their membership dropping like crazy?

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Friday, March 9, 2007 7:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I really don't think it would be all that difficult to keep backups of everything with the automation that computers allows for. Of course I don't think that everything is monitored by people. You would need one person employed by the government to montor every person that uses the net, and even if you had that manpower and the cash to back it, who would watch the watchers?

No, I do believe though that everything is archived somewhere. Cellphones, IM conversations, BitTorrent and other p2p downloads, etc.... It's all there somewhere, ready to be dug up if need be. Most of that stuff wouldn't be allowed in court anyhow at this point. What government organization wouldn't love to have the ability to go back and peruse all the records of somebody they wanted to keep tabs on though? Just because they couldn't use the information in court against you doesn't mean that they couldn't use prior discussions you've had to set up a sting or put a narc in there to befriend you and set you up.

That's kinda the jist of 1984. The main character Winston knew that they had the ability to have vidscreens and mics on pretty much anybody who mattered at any time of the day, but nobody really believed that every second of the day they were actually being watched. They just knew they were watched often enough that the fear was there to keep them from doing anything BigGov didn't want them to do, lest they be wisked away in the middle of the night by the thought police to live the rest of their (hopefully) short lives in the Ministry of Love. If you've never read the book before, it was to the point where people were terrified of even owning their own paper and pens because they were banned from writing their own thoughts down, and they had to train themselves to keep a straight face because being spotted on camera when you looked angry or even too happy about anything was rumored to be enough to warrant a visit from the thought police.

I see no reason to believe that we don't have the technology to do this already.

For more on 1984, check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

Spoilers abound though. It's a great book and I recommend anybody read it. It used to be part of mosts school's cirriculums, and though it hasn't been banned in school today many schools do not teach it anymore. I never read it myself until I was 22 years old.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:33 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


" It's worse than you know . It usually is... "

The folk who don't believe that we live in a surveillance society are just ignoring the evidence .

Yesterday , a lightplane made a hard landing near Norfolk , Virginia . It was on CNN Headline News within minutes of the crash .

Out of curiosity , I did a quick lookup of the aircraft's registration number , because I was curious about who the plane belonged to , and any more details about the ' crash ' .

Almost instantly , I found out where the flight had originated , a radar-surveillance track , and the exact geophysical representation of the time and place where the crash had occured...

And this was about an hour elapsed total time since the crash happened...

' In 1755 (Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, Tue, Nov 11, 1755), ( Ben ) Franklin wrote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

This phrasing was also the motto in Historical Review of Pennsylvania, attributed to Franklin .

It's important to note that this sentiment, with many variations, was much used in the Revolutionary period by Franklin and others. '


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Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

One of the greatest quotes in history....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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