REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

China declares Star Wars

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Thursday, February 2, 2023 11:19
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Monday, January 22, 2007 12:35 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello all,

Recently, China conducted an anti-satellite missile launch, and destroyed one of their own aging weather satellites: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/01/19/china.missile.ap/index.htm
l


The United States and her allies have strongly protested the launch.

The reasons (they say) are twofold:

1) Debris from the destroyed satellite could harm other satellites.

2) We don't want China to be able to shoot down our satellites.

Well, in this age of satellite communications and GPS systems, the destruction of satellites poses no small risk to our ability to communicate with one another. The communications of an entire country could be crippled by selective satellite strikes.

That having been said, I think we are wrong to protest this event. We are protesting, essentially, because the Chinese now have a weapon that we can ill defend against. Some diplomats have complained that this amounts to making space a battleground, but such complaints seem rediculous to me. The superpowers have had ICBM's for some time - weapons which must enter space as part of their operation in order to drop nuclear devices on enemies. Plus a recent president (Reagan) had an entire R&D thrust towards 'Star Wars' weapons systems, some of which were meant to fire energy weapons into space (or from space) in order to intercept these ICBM's.

So, space has been a battleground for decades. But now that the Chinese have invented this new weapon for Anti-Satellite warfare, we balk because we don't have anything that can stop them. It puts us (and our allies) into the position that 75% of the world is already in... Subject to the whims of a superpower. At the very least, if we were attacked this way, we have the power to respond militarily. What would a South American or African Nation do if the US attacked their communication centers? Cringe, that's what.

Instead of whining and complaining about Chinese agression, we should be developing comperable ASAT abilities, and creating a satellite defense mechanism to nullify this advantage.

What do you all think?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, January 22, 2007 12:39 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


DO NOT WANT!!!!!












(sorry sorry couldn't resisit very sorry leaving now I'm sorry won't post here again sorry)




Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Monday, January 22, 2007 12:46 PM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Some diplomats have complained that this amounts to making space a battleground, but such complaints seem rediculous to me.

.
.
.

Instead of whining and complaining about Chinese agression, we should be developing comperable ASAT abilities, and creating a satellite defense mechanism to nullify this advantage.



You say it was a battleground before, but it wasn't. It was more of a platform for countries (well, the US) to possibly attack other countries. If they do what you suggest, it really will become a battleground.

I'm not happy about China doing it. Of course America has been able to do similar damage for while now, but it hasn't. We can't be sure we'll be so lucky with China.



The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Monday, January 22, 2007 12:53 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

I dunno.

If I drive a tank over to your country to shoot you, isn't the land I traverse a battleground?


If I fly a bomber in the air and bomb you, then aren't the skies a battleground? (The British sure thought so during WWII.)


So if I fly a rocket into space and nuke you, isn't space a battleground?

Seems to me space has been a battleground for some time. We just haven't fought any wars there yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excited about Chinese ASAT capability. I just think that we sound like hypocrites for complaining.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, January 22, 2007 1:09 PM

KHYRON


I guess we're just arguing about a definition at the moment, but I don't think any of the examples you gave count as a battleground. The ground tanks fight other tanks on is a battleground, the land they traverse to get there is just land. The air that planes occupy while fighting other planes or attacking battleships or bombing groundtroops or whatever is a battlesground, the air planes fly through to get there is just air. Same with space.

Yes, the US is hypocritical to object to it. Yes, the US is right to object to it. And yes, what you suggested is, unfortunately, the right response, if it hasn't already been done in secret years ago in anticipation of something like this (I think it probably has been).

Take the diplomatic spin off this thing and it was clearly a demonstration of military capabilities, and it should be taken seriously by the US.



The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Monday, January 22, 2007 4:56 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Well Khyron, I see your point, and I'll concede this: Space isn't a battleground currently.

However, I think we'll both agree that when people started transporting weapons into space, they invited it to become a battleground.

So, I can't fault China for going against 'peace in space' when we have an arsenal of weapons designed to transport destruction through space enroute to an enemy.

If the US is worried about it, then instead of condemning China's actions, they should politely invite a diplomatic discussion.

"Congratulations on the advancement of your space program. We also have anti-satellite technology. But we don't want to see space become the platform for an arms race. Let's both agree never to use asat warfare devices again."

And if they refuse, we go full bore into a new space race... this time to develop effective asat weapons and defenses.

On the other hand, I think the US and her allies are worried about this new capability for more reasons than just the risk to satellites.

If China can hit Objects in Space, can they hit Nuclear missiles in Space? Is that an achievable technology from where they are now? If so, they are close to obtaining the coveted 'Star Wars' system that we sunk billions into... And part of our nuclear arsenal and deterrent may be soon rendered useless.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, January 22, 2007 6:26 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Instead of whining and complaining about Chinese agression, we should be developing comperable ASAT abilities, and creating a satellite defense mechanism to nullify this advantage.

What do you all think?

I think we need to be doing both. First of all, US technology is way above the Chinese. We’ve had comparable anti-satellite capability since the 80s and we have been developing missile defense technology since then as well.

But the technology is designed to be useful in a conflict. We don’t need to be relying on that as a first resort, so yes, we need the political side of it too. We need to be speaking very loudly about this.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, January 22, 2007 8:01 PM

FLETCH2


The Russian space shuttle was designed to be armed as an antisatellite weapon because the Soviets thought the US was going that way. Some of the SDI tech was designed for antisatelite warfare as well. The Chinese don't have anything new, they are just demonstrating that their technology is getting better.

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Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:06 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What do you all think?


How about we take a laser and put it on a satalite...I wont go into details. Anyway all we need is a clever movie or TV-based project title...how about the 'Firefly' Project? Because we all know short-sighted Congressional Democrats will probably cut the program off in favor of some piece of liberal crap that does us no good at all...just like American Idol.

H

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Tuesday, January 23, 2007 6:36 AM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Because we all know short-sighted Congressional Democrats will probably cut the program off in favor of some piece of liberal crap that does us no good at all...just like American Idol.


The democrats came up with American Idol!?



The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA


No, that was the Japanese.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdolSinger

Frankly, i'm less concerned about someone hitting our satellites than i am about their ability to hit US.

We need to get in some slick, shyster diplomats who'll gain ground for our cause and convince the other guys diplomats it was their idea in the first place and leave em all happy while we stick it to em on every front from trade to treaty...

What we DON'T need is more complete cowboy-diplomacy morons like Bolton who scream and flail and get us exactly nothing while pissing off everybody.

There's more ways to stick it to the other guy than on the battlefield, but for the nonce we're stuck with simpletons who don't understand that, in both parties.


-Frem

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Thursday, February 2, 2023 6:48 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


At one time the more notorious people like Frem were more calm and measured

India, USA and Russia have done the same with sats

anyways

'Respectful of different cultures': Iowa City school board adds day off for Asian Lunar New Year

https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2021/12/02/iowa-city-school-b
oard-approves-day-off-lunar-new-year-holiday-2022/8793253002
/

this will leave some global leftwing diversity multi cultural types confused

and Space-Force news

Democrats were first critical of Trump's idea for a 'Space Force'

but then Russia starts blowing up space with an ASAT test, it invades Ukraine and of course it was decided to keep the Space Force

Space Force chief: Satellites are under threat, ‘we have to be ready’
https://spacenews.com/space-force-chief-satellites-are-under-threat-we
-have-to-be-ready/?preview_id=136525



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Thursday, February 2, 2023 11:19 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK




--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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