REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Dont you think its hypocritical.....

POSTED BY: BIONICBATMAN
UPDATED: Saturday, December 16, 2006 23:24
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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:48 PM

BIONICBATMAN


That people who dont believe in God celebrate the birth of Him?


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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:05 PM

JOSSISAGOD


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
That people who dont believe in God celebrate the birth of Him?




A little bit, yeah, but I try to remember what the other part of the Christmas spirit is about. The spirit of giving without thinking about receiving.

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:09 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Not nearly as hypocritical as those who call themselves Christians, yet hate anyone who isn't like them.

You can celebrate the spirit of generosity and goodwill. That wouldn't make you a hypocrit. Unless you were a Scrooge in daily life.


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:19 PM

JOSSISAGOD


Thankfully I try not to be a scrooge in my daily life. I guess I can take that edit off now!

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:23 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


i can spell......sometimes


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:02 PM

SASSALICIOUS


Don't you think it's funny that people are whipped into a fervor about christmas being jesus's birthday when he wasn't even born on dec 25? Or the fact that the modern christmas celebration kind of goes against everything jesus, as the original social worker, ever taught?

And seriously, the tree? Totally stolen from the pagans.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.

~Forsaken Forever

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:17 PM

ESOTERICFUDGE


The entire holiday was "borrowed" from pagan traditions in order to make it easier to convert them to Christianity. They took all the traditions and practices from the pagan holidays that occurred around that time, and just said "hey everybody, it's Jesus' birthday!"

So no, it's not hypocritical. Perhaps if they call it "Christmas" it is a tad, but really it's not.

This is my signature. Look upon it and tremble at its awesome might.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Who says I'm celebrating Xmas? I'm celebrating the Festival of Pretty Colored Lights and Goodwill.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:55 PM

OLDENGLANDDRY


I feel some Deja vu coming on.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:16 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Don't you think it's hypocritical...

that people who don't believe in the Sun God worship on his holy day?


Both your question, BionicBatman, and mine make about the same amount of sense.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:13 AM

SIMONWHO


Once again a Christian posts self-righteous condemnation of others while under the delusion that Christianity invented all the things associated with it.

Just because you've rebranded an ancient festival, doesn't make it yours.


You just practice your loving one another first before you start judging others.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:08 AM

HKCAVALIER


No. It is perfectly alright to participate in the dominant culture's festivals without being a member of the dominant religion. When in Rome...y'know? Not everyone is as dogmatic and exclusionary as some Christians are taught to be. Some of us like people and like celebrating. Sorry, if that complicates your lovely black and white world-view.

To give another spin on this absurd question: Don't you think it's hypocritical for white people to celebrate Martin Luther King Day?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:19 AM

PIRATECAT


I'm gettin my share of the loot. I'll believe in fat old men who wear red velvet suits. OK



"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:11 AM

BIONICBATMAN


Yes i am a Christian but i am just saying dont you think its hypocritical. I'm not trying to judge anybody. Dont make up your own assumptions without thinking about what you are typing.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:26 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Yes i am a Christian but i am just saying dont you think its hypocritical. I'm not trying to judge anybody. Dont make up your own assumptions without thinking about what you are typing.


Wait a second, BionicBatman. How do, "dont you think its hypocritical" and "I'm not trying to judge anybody" go together? I couldn't get both those statements out of my mouth while keeping a straight face. Kudos if you can.

As far as assumptions go, I think that is excellent advice. Why don't you start by outlining all the assumptions you've made to get to your original question.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:55 AM

BIONICBATMAN


Thats because it IS hypocritical for them to be celebrating it. I asked one simple question. A yes or no question. Judging people and what they are are 2 two completely different things. Dont you agree that it is hyprocritical?

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Why do you assume I'm celebrating Xmas?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:16 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Thats because it IS hypocritical for them to be celebrating it. I asked one simple question. A yes or no question. Judging people and what they are are 2 two completely different things. Dont you agree that it is hyprocritical?


Gliding right past your semantic silliness regarding judging people, I think it would help if you clarify what you mean by, "celebrate the birth of him."

Let me give you some examples. If someone who didn't believe in the Roman Catholic version of God took communion at Christmas midnight mass then, yes, I'd say that their actions were hypocritical. If someone who didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ wished someone else, "Merry Christmas" then, no, I'd say that their actions were not hypocritical. Expand from there.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:12 PM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
If someone who didn't believe in the Roman Catholic version of God took communion at Christmas midnight mass then, yes, I'd say that their actions were hypocritical.

But Soupcatcher, some folks like experiencing different cultures and their rituals. All kinds of non-catholics go to Midnight Mass much the same way travelers might do in an exotic land.

And what about atheists? They don't believe that any particular religious rituals are sacred or better than others, but does that mean they mustn't enjoy ritual for its own sake or for social reasons?

Funny thing is, the atheists I've known who do avoid celebrating Christmas do it because of what they perceive to be the hypocrisy of the holiday itself. Pretty ironic, don'tcha think?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:24 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
That people who dont believe in God celebrate the birth of Him?

Probably. I would say it is hypocritical by definition.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:37 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
But Soupcatcher, some folks like experiencing different cultures and their rituals. All kinds of non-catholics go to Midnight Mass much the same way travelers might do in an exotic land.


I basically agree with you, HK, that a person who doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ (shorthanded to "pwdbitdojc") really can't be accused of hypocritical actions no matter what they do. That rule book just doesn't apply (although I could see an argument for hypocrisy of someone who pretended to be LDS to participate in an LDS wedding ceremony, or something like that, for example).

However, I have a feeling that the original poster isn't ready for that conversation. Probably never will be. What I was hoping to do was to get them to rethink what it means to celebrate the birth of their Savior. So I tried to think of something that a Christian would do, on Christmas, that would have tremendous significance to them as an expression of their belief and that a pwdbitdojc would probably never do as part of their usual holiday celebration (experimentation aside).

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:57 PM

BIONICBATMAN


Soup, can you do anything else besides attack me?

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
That people who dont believe in God celebrate the birth of Him?




Kinda a cultural celebration , more than anything. We're brought up on the idea of celebrating the birth of JC on Dec. 25th, although that's no where near his real b-day. It's understood that the HRCC chose this date to force out the Pagan religions already celebrated through out Europe. Christmas trees have no real religious significance, yet we associate them w/ the holiday as well.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:10 PM

BIONICBATMAN


Please. Christmas trees. If it was up to me i would never have a tree. It is just a hassle to put and decorate and just as much ot take down.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:11 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Thats because it IS hypocritical for them to be celebrating it. I asked one simple question. A yes or no question. Judging people and what they are are 2 two completely different things. Dont you agree that it is hyprocritical?


Gliding right past your semantic silliness regarding judging people, I think it would help if you clarify what you mean by, "celebrate the birth of him."




I think Soup's right on this one - what do you mean by "celebrate?" If, on Xmas, they aren't worshipping Jesus' divinity, are they not celebrating the holiday?

Look, I know several atheists, and to a man (well, technically two are women) they all love Xmas. They get a tree, they give gifts, they love to see their families. But they aren't celebrating the holiday as the birth of Jesus. And another poster (man, I wish I could see the whole thread when I type without opening a new window) said that Xmas originally was a pagan holiday, which is true. Pagans can celebrate the solstice at Xmastime, atheists can revel in the spirit of the season, etc.

It's only hypocritical (and I disagree with Finn here, I believe) if they are celebrating the holiday as the birth of Jesus while claiming to be atheist. That's what a hypocrite is; someone who says one thing and does another. You can celebrate the season whether you believe or not. It doesn't make you a hypocrite to have a good time at Xmas - only if you are an atheist celebrating Christ's divinity are you a hypocrite. If you're just happy to be with people, love lights, and get a thrill from eggnog, you don't have to be anything but having a good time.


------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:44 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Actually, it kind of seems like you agree with me. The question that was posed is whether it is hypocritical to worship the birth of god while not believing in said god. By definition, that is probably hypocritical. The definition of a hypocrite, fundamentally, is one who puts on a false appearance of religion.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But as Xtian will tell you, there is nothing Xtian about a tree. I'm not sure what tradition the lights come from, or the gift-giving. It's prolly pagan anyway. So I suppose you could say we're all being false pagans?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:51 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Soup, can you do anything else besides attack me?


Sure I can. To borrow from Jim Rome, "Have a take. Don't suck."

Oh, and SevenPercent, thanks for that much clearer articulation. That's pretty much the direction I was heading with the topic (with some snark thrown in).

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:59 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
But as Xtian will tell you, there is nothing Xtian about a tree. I'm not sure what tradition the lights come from, or the gift-giving. It's prolly pagan anyway. So I suppose you could say we're all being false pagans?

I suppose, it could be viewed that way, but most people don’t really perceive the non-Christian symbolism in Christmas to have a religious significance, and they certainly don’t attribute any particularly pagan gods to it. You can have a celebration without it being religious, and for a lot of people that is precisely what I imagine Christmas is.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:35 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually, it kind of seems like you agree with me. The question that was posed is whether it is hypocritical to worship the birth of god while not believing in said god. By definition, that is probably hypocritical. The definition of a hypocrite, fundamentally, is one who puts on a false appearance of religion.




Okay. I think I misinterpreted what you meant in that post. I thought you were suggesting that a nonbeliever could not celebrate Xmas without being a hypocrite, which I disagreed with, since there are nonreligious/non-Xtian ways of celebrating said holiday. If you just mean in the general "atheist celebrating Christ," then yes, we are in agreement, by definition.

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:25 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Well, seeing that I'm given time off and all, I suppose that my observing Xmas is mandatory, unless I want to go into work and kick around an empty building.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:40 PM

HKCAVALIER


Really, this is a very self-important question. It presumes that Christmas is a non-trivial event in the lives of non-Christians. Suggesting that non-Christian observance of Christmas is de facto hypocricy presumes that non-Christians are against Christmas; to such a mind, if you do not love Jesus, you must hate Him. The kind of Christian who would ask this question cannot imagine a world where the Christ of the Bible does not exist, much less matter at all.

But many non-Christians do see Christmas as the equivolent of a local custome. Many non-Christians have nothing particulary against Christianity and so partake happily in the Christmas tradition without being in the least hypocritical.

I think the kind of Christian who would ask this question is deep in the throes of his/her persecution complex--Why do you hate the baby Jesus? type deal--all non-Christians hate Christ/are of Satan/are unrepentant and therefore wedded to evil.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:52 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Yeah well, it sounds like you're presuming a lot too.

Technically, the author of this thread didn't say anything about practicing Christmas as a custom or even a whole lot pertaining to Christmas. He asked a pretty straightforward question with a pretty straightforward answer. Now, I don’t know what the hell his point is, but maybe you’d like to wait and hear his point before you start bad-mouthing the kind of Christian you think he is.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:00 PM

BIONICBATMAN


I do believe my question has the point in it.

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:01 PM

SASSALICIOUS


when i was quickly reading your comment, i totally read "kick around an empty building" as "kick a puppy".

Happy Festivus!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.

~Forsaken Forever

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:51 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
I do believe my question has the point in it.

You’re point was to propose a textbook example of hypocrisy with no underlying context? Doesn’t that sort of make this thread a waste of time? You could have just looked 'hypocrite' up in the dictionary.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:52 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


AHH... THE SECRET HISTORY OF XMAS

Quote:



"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,
the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold;
they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree.
Every man is brutish in his knowledge.
My tabernacle is spoiled.
For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD:
therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country,
to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons.
Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not."
-Jeremiah 10 (KJV)

TO ORDER YOUR JEREMIAH 10 CHRISTMAS CARDS:

http://www.cafepress.com/piratenews.39079634



For 100s of years it was illegal to celebrate Xmas, according to the Puritans who ran the British and American colonial governments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29995

Christ Mass is celebration of the Jewish Sanhedrons' murder of Rabbi Jesus, according to the Catholic church.
www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

Yule logs (Feast of the Dead) were made from the fat of child sacrifice, just like Jack-o-lanterns on Halloween.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_log

The US Supreme Court ordered that Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity (Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, March 5, 1984).
www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0465_0668_ZO.html

Christmas was historically a pagan orgy for Saturnalia, aka Satan (aka Santa).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia



Xmas is Satan's birthday, according to Jewish Christians.
www.fossilizedcustoms.com/Satan.htm

Xmas trees represents Satan's penis. Xmas wreaths represent Satan's vagina. Satan's an hermaphrodite, BTW. What does that say about pagans?
www.fossilizedcustoms.com/asherah.html

85% of artificial xmas trees are manufactured in Communist China, which outlaws Christianity under penalty of death.
www.christmastree.org/facts.cfm

9-million US citizens are suffocated every year by cutting down Christmas trees.
www.christmastree.org/facts.cfm

George Bush Jr's ancestor President Franklin Pierce was the first to put an Xmas tree in the White House.
www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/trees/traditions.html

Bush Jr forbids any mention of Jesus on the official White House Christmas card.
www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42027

Bush Jr's official Air force One Xmas tree ornament is the Jewish Satanic Star of Soloman. Jewish King Soloman had 700 wives and built temples to Molech in Jerusalem, so the Jews could perform child sacrifice. The Star of Soloman was adopted by the Satanic Rothschilds as their family crest, then the Rothschilds illegally invented Israel and made it the Israeli flag.
www.whitehousechristmasornament.com/2006-Air-Force-One-Christmas-Ornam
ent.html


Jewish Rabbis say Israel has no right to exist.
www.jewsagainstzionism.com

Bush worshiped Adolf Hitler and masterbated naked in a coffin at Yale Skull & Bones, performs ritual "simulated" human sacrifice to a 50-foot-tall idol of Molech at Bohemian Grove, and carries a Jewish Babylonian Talmud to class in the White House with Rabbi Ari Fleischer and Rabbi Dov Zakheim.
www.piratenews.org/bohemian-grove-page1.html

The Talmud requires beheading of all Christians for blasphemy with Rabbi Jesus who is burning in Hell in excrement, according to the Jews.
www.conspiracyworld.com/index0128.htm

Wasn't it the Jewish owner of Macy's who started this consumer nightmare in USA? USA's current annual trade deficit with Communist China is 3-TRILLION dollars...
www.theinternationalforecaster.com

Quote:


"THE HANGMAN EQUALS DEATH!
THE DEVIL EQUALS DEATH!
DEATH EQUALS DEATH!"

-Initiation ritual in Yale University's Skull & Bones Senior Secret Society, New Haven, Connecticut (Ron Rosenbaum, New York Observer, "At Skull and Bones, Bush's Secret Club Initiates Ream Gore," 4/2/01)
www.prisonplanet.com/initiates_ream_gore.html


Christian (Jewish) presidents Georges Bush and Bill Clinton-Blythe Rockefeller worshipping Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Jewish Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio, California on Summer Solstice. Photo copyright Bohemian Club annual yearbook
http://www.lonelantern.org/bohemian_grove.html

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove
Original full-length version - Infiltration of Jewish Bohemian Grove presidential compound and homosexual nudist colony that performs "mock" human sacrifice to 50-foot-tall idol of Molech - Where Bush Gang and Bill Clinton-Blythe III (Rockefeller) vacation every year to worship Satan and run nekked in the woods with 3,000 homosexual world dictators - Undercover video by Infowars.com
http://www.archive.org/details/DSIBG
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove and The Order of Death
Two documentaries in one - An employee of Bohemian Grove presidential compound used undercover video to capture the 50-foot-tall idol of Molech and "mock" human sacrifice up close and in broad daylight - Undercover video by Infowars.com
http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Boners at Bohemian Grove
Music video by Counter Coup and John Lee
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2740234893142263113&q=boners+a
t+bohemian+grove

http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6737.php

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Snuff kiddie porn at Bohemian Grove
Alex Jones of Infowars.com interviews Senator John DeCamp author of The Franklin Coverup, music by Counter Coup and Bohemian Club
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6737.php

Moloch.
an ancient Phoenician and Ammonite god, to whom children were sacrificed by burning.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people."
-Leviticus 20:1-5, Christian Bible KJV

"And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon."
-1 Kings 11:6-7, Christian Bible KJV

"Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it. And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."
-Jeremiah 32:32-35, Christian Bible KJV

"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
-Leviticus 18:21-22, Christian Bible KJV

And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem. And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel. And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove. And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech. And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem. Jehoahaz was twenty and three years old when he began to reign; and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. And Jehoiakim gave the silver and the gold to Pharaoh; but he taxed the land to give the money according to the commandment of Pharaoh: he exacted the silver and the gold of the people of the land, of every one according to his taxation, to give it unto Pharaohnechoh. Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign; And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done."
-2 Kings 23:1-37

"But it's not just the ratty part of town. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time - it is the most faggy goddamn thing that you would ever imagine with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco."
-President Richard "Dick" Nixon, White House audiotape, Nixon Presidential Library, 1971
http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html (audio download)

More photos and news from Bohemian Grove:
http://www.nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=152
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove


Christian (Jewish) presidents Georges Bush and Bill Clinton-Blythe Rockefeller performing "mock" human sacrifice to 50-foot tall idol of Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Jewish Bohemian Grove homosexual nudist compound. That's a "live" human body burning as it screams in agony over the loudspeakers. 45-million children have been sacrificied in USA since 1973. 2.5-million innocent Iraqis have been sacrificed by the Bushes and Clinton-Blythes, including over 600,000 children. Photo copyright Bohemian Club annual yearbook
http://www.43places.com/places/view/379646



"Pagan" Christmas ritual celebrated at "Christian" Universalist church, Satanic posters supplied to all children in govt school:
www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53250

Wiccan witch teaches kids in "Christian" church how to "re-paganize Christmas:

Quote:


Have gift exchanges and feasts over the course of several days and nights as was done of old

Adorn the home with sacred herbs and colors; decorate in druidic holiday colors of red, green and white

Hang a sprig of mistletoe above a major threshold and leave it there until next yule as a charm for good luck throughout the year

Have family/household members join together to make or purchase an evergreen wreath

If you choose to have a living or a harvested evergreen tree as part of your holiday decorations, call it a solstice tree and decorate it with pagan symbols

Reclaim Santa Claus as a pagan godform by decorating him with images that reflect his various heritages ranging from the Greek god Cronos (father time) to Odin, the Scandinavian all-father riding the sky on an eight-legged horse

Place pagan mother-goddess images around your home, possibly including one with a sun child, such as Isis with Horus

Honor the new solar year with light – light candles, burn a yule log and save a portion for the following year, put colored lights outside your home, and with the popularity of five-pointed stars, consider displaying a blue or white pentagram.

www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/SolsticeArticle.html



Christian churches are adopting the Celtic Knot (666) as their logo. The Celtic pagan cross represents the Sun god, not the cross Jesus was murdered on.

Jesus is not His real name.
www.fossilizedcustoms.com


Witches are worshipped as gods in Hollywood



No, I'm not celebrating Xmas this year. It smells like bad luck.

But President General George Washington did cross the Delaware River and slaughter the drunken faggot British soldiers (German mercenaries) on Christmas Day in 1776 to win the US Revolutionary War.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trenton
www.georgewashingtonmythsymbolandreality.org

Sounds like a good idea in 2006, to finally overthrow the German Queen of England Elizabeth Sax Coberg Gotha, aka Queen of Babylon at Bohemian Grove. Babylon is Iraq, which includes the Garden of Eden...


"Forget the lies of our oppressive Kaballistic Allied Governments."
-Huckster, Firefly, The Message


FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
.1044556

www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org


Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Friday, December 15, 2006 3:55 AM

SIMONWHO


I think it's hypocritical for those who follow a religion where they are commanded to love their enemies and not to judge to act like hate filled judgemental jerks.

That's hypocrisy.

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Friday, December 15, 2006 6:18 AM

REDLAVA


No more hypocritical than non-Irish people celebrating St. Patricks Day by wearing green and eating corned beef every March 14th, or non-Pagans carving pumpkins and dressing up in costumes for a party for Halloween on October 31st.

You don't happen to celebrate either of those do you?

I don't believe in God, but I still celebrate holidays like Christmas and Easter with my family, not because of what they represent to Christians, but what they represent to American society. A time for us to reflect on what is really important in this world. Family and friends. I look at those holidays as another Thanksgiving.



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Friday, December 15, 2006 6:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I was thinking of the reason for the question in the first place. It seems to me that some Xtians are afraid of the secularization of Christmas. They feel that if you celebrate the holiday you must accept all the baggage that comes with it; there is a feeling of ownership attached to the merry-making. I guess they must feel that it's one way to get people to accept Xtianity: place a bit of food, shiny gifts and twinkly lights in a trap.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Friday, December 15, 2006 7:30 AM

BIONICBATMAN


No i do not celebrate either of those holidays. Good job you know me so well. I dont wear green on St. Patricks Day. And if someone pinches me for not, i get them back twice as hard. Halloween is just an excuse for kids to get candy from complete strangers, parents go out and party, and teens killing animals. Two holidays to where if you dont play along you pay the price.

Just curious here but what do you believe in?

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Friday, December 15, 2006 7:46 AM

STORYMARK


I celebrate Christmas not for any religious signifigance, but for the chance to be with the ones I love. And I simply do not care if anyone else approves or not.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, December 15, 2006 7:50 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Ah, Piratenews. Always good for a laugh.



Quote:


For 100s of years it was illegal to celebrate Xmas, according to the Puritans who ran the British and American colonial governments.



Actually, it only seems to have been banned in Boston for a couple of years, according to the article you cited.

“In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas; its celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. At the same time, residents of Virginia and New York celebrated the holiday freely.”

Quote:

Christ Mass is celebration of the Jewish Sanhedrons' murder of Rabbi Jesus, according to the Catholic church.


No reference to that at all in the article you cited. The Catholic Mass involves a recreation of the “last supper”, the feast before Jesus’ death. Christmas itself celebates Jesus’ birth, with only occasional references to his eventual destiny according to Christian tradition.

Quote:

Yule logs (Feast of the Dead) were made from the fat of child sacrifice, just like Jack-o-lanterns on Halloween.


Absolutely no reference to child sacrifice in the article you cited. Yes, Yule logs were initially part of the winter feasts of the dead and so are pre-Christian in origin. That’s why they’re called Yule logs, not Christmas logs. Feasts of the Dead usually occurred in Winter, since the world itself was “dead” and the living asked the spirits if they were going to survive to see spring. Those were not gentle times. The logs were made of wood. Not fat. There was no fat involved until modern times when companies started making chocolate Yule logs.

Jack-o-lanterns were always made with pumpkins or turnips and were used to scare away bad spirits. Again, there’s no reference anywhere to using fat from kids.

Quote:

The US Supreme Court ordered that Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity (Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, March 5, 1984).


Your article appears to be a legal ruling about whether or not a creche was allowed to display a crib with a Nativity scene, since on the one hand it was part of the Christmas story, but on the other hand as a scene from Christian tradition it could have been seen as a violation of the laws separating church and state.

Quote:

Christmas was historically a pagan orgy for Saturnalia, aka Satan (aka Santa).


No reference to orgies in the article you cited. Now there's a sentance I never thought I'd type. Some references to gift giving, drinking, feasting and “tomfoolery”. The name Santa doesn’t come from Satan or Saturn. It comes from Sinter Klaus, Saint Nicholas. Yes, there was a Pagan festival involving some traditions continued in modern Christmas celebrations. It’s one of several such festivals – Yule has already been mentioned several times in this thread.

Quote:

Xmas is Satan's birthday, according to Jewish Christians.
Xmas trees represents Satan's penis. Xmas wreaths represent Satan's vagina. Satan's an hermaphrodite, BTW. What does that say about pagans?



You know what? There’s a link on the home page of that site leading to an article saying homosexuals should be put to death. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about their "facts".

Quote:

85% of artificial xmas trees are manufactured in Communist China, which outlaws Christianity under penalty of death.


Yep, 85% of artificial trees are made in China. Although Christianity isn’t outlawed there any more. It is pretty strictly regulated though.

Quote:

9-million US citizens are suffocated every year by cutting down Christmas trees.


No reference to that in the website you cited. And… seriously, you couldn’t even come up with a halfway realistic number? 9 million a year?

I could go on, but I’m bored and these links are getting depressing.





Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com
Blog available at http://desktophippie.blogspot.com

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Friday, December 15, 2006 8:01 AM

STORYMARK


Damn Hippie, that was fun to read.

Of course, actually reading the crap he posts seems to be beyond PN's abilities.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, December 15, 2006 8:13 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Quote:

Originally posted by BionicBatman:
Thats because it IS hypocritical for them to be celebrating it. I asked one simple question. A yes or no question. Judging people and what they are are 2 two completely different things. Dont you agree that it is hyprocritical?



So... your not judging people because they ARE hypocrites... and you're just pointing that out.

Seriously, BionicBatman, you can't start a post calling every non-Christian who celebrates during the holiday season a hypocrite and then get annoyed when people call you out on it. And please stop saying that it's not what your doing, because your excuses are about as convincing as Piratenews' references.




Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com
Blog available at http://desktophippie.blogspot.com

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Friday, December 15, 2006 8:25 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
If someone who didn't believe in the Roman Catholic version of God took communion at Christmas midnight mass then, yes, I'd say that their actions were hypocritical.


I wanta weigh in on this.
In the Methodist church I attend, I wouldn't trake Connunion for years.
Then one Communion Sunday , a new pastor read a slightly different ritual. He said, " The Methodist church practices an open Communion table. You do not have to be a member of this church or any other to take Communion. You must merely seek to follow the teaching of Christ , and to seek Divine assistance with your sins." ON those terms, I could , and do, participate.

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Friday, December 15, 2006 8:28 AM

SHINYED


General Response To All :

The way I see it...Christmas is ALL ABOUT CHILDREN....period!

Adults can debate forever the origins, value, etc etc etc about Christianity, Jesus, Jews, Romans, & blah blah blah......

Does EVERY DAMN THING in this world now have to be SECULAR HUMANIST in nature...with no faith left in the world???

Little kids...your children, my children...they dont know any of that crap and they dont care....THEY JUST LOVE SANTA CLAUS, CHRISTMAS TREES, CHRISMAS PRESENTS, AND ALL THE HOLIDAY CHILDREN'S SPECIALS!...SOme of you folks here sound like you'd want to just strip all that away just because you can't find any love in your heart...that's pretty sad!..I say..GROW UP!

Gwon nee ju jee du shu, dong ma?

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Friday, December 15, 2006 8:37 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I wanta weigh in on this.
In the Methodist church I attend, I wouldn't trake Connunion for years.
Then one Communion Sunday , a new pastor read a slightly different ritual. He said, " The Methodist church practices an open Communion table. You do not have to be a member of this church or any other to take Communion. You must merely seek to follow the teaching of Christ , and to seek Divine assistance with your sins." ON those terms, I could , and do, participate.

Okay. Based on this and HK's earlier response, my example is looking weaker and weaker. It probably says more about the culture of the church I grew up in than anything else. IIRC, foot washing and communion happened four times a year. Whether or not it was ever written out, it was understood that communion was for those who had been baptized. So, because I never chose to be baptized, I would participate in foot washing but not communion.

Shorter response: I like your new pastor's take.

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Friday, December 15, 2006 8:50 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Little kids...your children, my children...they dont know any of that crap and they dont care....THEY JUST LOVE SANTA CLAUS, CHRISTMAS TREES, CHRISMAS PRESENTS, AND ALL THE HOLIDAY CHILDREN'S SPECIALS!...SOme of you folks here sound like you'd want to just strip all that away just because you can't find any love in your heart...that's pretty sad!..I say..GROW UP!


ShinyEd, I'm not getting the same read on the conversation that you are. What I get from this thread is that there is a general consensus that celebrating the holiday is a GOOD thing.

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Friday, December 15, 2006 9:07 AM

SHINYED


Hey Soup

I am sure that the vast...vast majority of Browncoats ...being nice friendly folks...enjoy Christmas with their families and friends.

I looked thru this thread again..and yes a lot of support for Christmas...but did ya see all those weird posts about Satan, etc etc ??? And a lot of Christian & Jew bashing as well....pretty disgusting stuff.

But no matter;..we're all here 'cause we love Firefly, and that's what's important.

Happy Holidays to you and all your folk.

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