REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

North American Union to Replace USA

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Friday, July 7, 2006 17:31
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Tuesday, May 23, 2006 5:24 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Did your skool teach you about the Council on Foreign Relations Secret Society?

Quote:




North American Union to Replace USA?

by Jerome R. Corsi
Human Events
May 19, 2006

President Bush is pursuing a globalist agenda to create a North American Union, effectively erasing our borders with both Mexico and Canada. This was the hidden agenda behind the Bush administration's true open borders policy.

Secretly, the Bush administration is pursuing a policy to expand NAFTA politically, setting the stage for a North American Union designed to encompass the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. What the Bush administration truly wants is the free, unimpeded movement of people across open borders with Mexico and Canada.

President Bush intends to abrogate U.S. sovereignty to the North American Union, a new economic and political entity which the President is quietly forming, much as the European Union has formed.

The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled "Building a North American Community" published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration's actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union:

Quote:


Building a North American Community

At their meeting in Waco, Texas, at the end of March 2005, U.S. President George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin committed their governments to a path of cooperation and joint action. We welcome this important development and offer this report to add urgency and specific recommendations to strengthen their efforts.

www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/NorthAmerica_TF_final.pdf



What is the plan? Simple, erase the borders. The plan is contained in a "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" little noticed when President Bush and President Fox created it in March 2005:

Quote:

In March 2005, the leaders of Canada, Mexico, and the United States adopted a Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), establishing ministerial-level working groups to address key security and economic issues facing North America and setting a short deadline for reporting progress back to their governments. President Bush described the significance of the SPP as putting forward a common commitment "to markets and democracy, freedom and trade, and mutual prosperity and security." The policy framework articulated by the three leaders is a significant commitment that will benefit from broad discussion and advice. The Task Force is pleased to provide specific advice on how the partnership can be pursued and realized.

To that end, the Task Force proposes the creation by 2010 of a North American community to enhance security, prosperity, and opportunity. We propose a community based on the principle affirmed in the March 2005 Joint Statement of the three leaders that "our security and prosperity are mutually dependent and complementary." Its boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly and safe. Its goal will be to guarantee a free, secure, just, and prosperous North America.



The perspective of the CFR report allows us to see President Bush's speech to the nation as nothing more than public relations posturing and window dressing. No wonder President Vincente Fox called President Bush in a panic after the speech. How could the President go back on his word to Mexico by actually securing our border? Not to worry, President Bush reassured President Fox. The National Guard on the border were only temporary, meant to last only as long until the public forgets about the issue, as has always been the case in the past.

The North American Union plan, which Vincente Fox has every reason to presume President Bush is still following, calls for the only border to be around the North American Union -- not between any of these countries. Or, as the CFR report stated:

Quote:

The three governments should commit themselves to the long-term goal of dramatically diminishing the need for the current intensity of the governments’ physical control of cross-border traffic, travel, and trade within North America. A long-term goal for a North American border action plan should be joint screening of travelers from third countries at their first point of entry into North America and the elimination of most controls over the temporary movement of these travelers within North America.


Discovering connections like this between the CFR recommendations and Bush administration policy gives credence to the argument that President Bush favors amnesty and open borders, as he originally said. Moreover, President Bush most likely continues to consider groups such as the Minuteman Project to be "vigilantes," as he has also said in response to a reporter's question during the March 2005 meeting with President Fox.

Why doesn’t President Bush just tell the truth? His secret agenda is to dissolve the United States of America into the North American Union. The administration has no intent to secure the border, or to enforce rigorously existing immigration laws. Securing our border with Mexico is evidently one of the jobs President Bush just won't do. If a fence is going to be built on our border with Mexico, evidently the Minuteman Project is going to have to build the fence themselves. Will President Bush protect America's sovereignty, or is this too a job the Minuteman Project will have to do for him?

www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=14965
www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/north_american_union_replace_usa.htm


www.michellemalkin.com/archives/004869.htm


Just what USA needs - 200-million illegal aliens in the next 20 years.

Quote:


Senate Immigration Bill Would Allow 193-Million New Legal Immigrants over the Next Twenty Years

by Robert Rector
Heritage Foundation
May 15, 2006

If enacted, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S.2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years—fully one-third of the current population of the United States.

The maximum number that could legally enter would be almost 200 million over twenty years—over 180 million more legal immigrants than current law permits.

Much attention has been given to the fact that the bill grants amnesty to some 10 million illegal immigrants. Little or no attention has been given to the fact that the bill would quintuple the rate of legal immigration into the United States, raising, over time, the inflow of legal immigrants from around one million per year to over five million per year. The impact of this increase in legal immigration dwarfs the magnitude of the amnesty provisions.

In contrast to the 103 million immigrants permitted under CIRA, current law allows 19 million legal immigrants over the next twenty years. Relative to current law, then, CIRA would add an extra 84 million legal immigrants to the nation’s population.

CIRA offers amnesty and citizenship to 85 percent of the nation’s current 11.9 million illegal immigrants. (sic)

www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm



CFR Inc is a "secretive society" with 3,500 members, HQed in New York City, as seen on History Channel TV's "Secret Societies".

Quote:


GOLDWATER SEES ELITIST SENTIMENTS THREATENING LIBERTIES

By U.S. Senator Barry M. Goldwater (1979)


www.cfr.org
www.foreignaffairs.org

"Their syllogistic argument goes like this: THE COUNCIL HAS DOMINATED AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY SINCE 1945. ALL AMERICAN POLICY DECISIONS HAVE RESULTED IN LOSSES TO THE COMMUNISTS. Therefore, all members of the council are communist sympathizers.

"Many of the policies advocated by the council have been damaging to the cause of freedom and particularly to the United States. But this is not because the members are communists or communist sympathizers. This explanation of our foreign policy reversals is too pat, too simplistic.

"I believe that the Council on Foreign Relations and its ancillary elitist groups are indifferent to communism. They have no ideological anchors. IN THEIR PURSUIT OF A NEW WORLD ORDER, THEY ARE PREPARED TO DEAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE WITH A COMMUNIST STATE, A SOCIALIST STATE, a democratic state, a monarchy, an oligarchy - its all the same to them.

"THEIR GOAL IS TO impose a benign stability on the quarreling family of nations through merger and consolidation. THEY SEE THE ELIMINATION OF NATIONAL BOUNDARIES, THE SUPPRESSION OF RACIAL AND ETHNIC LOYALTIES, as the most expeditious avenue to world peace. They believe economic competition is the root cause of international tension.

"Perhaps if the council's vision of the future were realized, it would reduce wars, lessen poverty and bring about a more efficient utilization of the world's resources. To my mind, THIS WOULD INEVITABLY BE ACCOMPANIED BY A LOSS IN PERSONAL FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF THE RESTRAINTS THAT PROVOKED THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

"THE INSTITUTE OF PACIFIC RELATIONS WAS BEHIND THE DECISION TO CUT OFF AID TO CHIANG KAI-SHEK UNLESS HE EMBRACED THE COMMUNISTS, AND THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS IS THE PARENT RGANIZATION OF THE INSTITUTE OF PACIFIC RELATIONS.

"In 1962, Nelson Rockefeller (founder of World Trade Center), in a lecture at Harvard University on the interdependence of nations in the modern world, said: "And so the nation-state, standing alone, threatens in many ways to seem as anachronistic as the Greek city-state eventually became in ancient times."

"Everything he said was true. We are dependent on other nations for raw materials and for markets. It is necessary to have defense alliances with other nations in order to balance the military power of those who would destroy us.

"WHERE I DIFFER FROM Rockefeller is in the suggestion that to achieve this new federalism, THE UNITED STATES MUST SUBMERGE ITS NATIONAL IDENTITY AND SURRENDER SUBSTANTIAL MATTERS OF SOVEREIGNTY TO A NEW POLITICAL ORDER.

"Whereas the council on Foreign Relations is distinctly national, representation is allocated equally to Western Europe, Japan and the United States. It is intended to act as the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests BY SEIZING CONTROL OF THE POLITICAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

"ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI AND DAVID ROCKEFELLER SCREENED AND SELECTED EVERY INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN SHAPING AND ADMINISTERING THE PROPOSED NEW WORLD ORDER.

Full Text and partial list of CFR members:
www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/multi/goldwatr.html



CFR Corporation wrote the charter for United Nations Corporation. NAFTA SHAFTA officially merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is a member of 53-nation British Commwealth ruled by the German Queen of England Elizabeth Sax Coberg Gotha. So USA has now officially lost the Revolutionary War, and is again a colony of the British Empire, aka the New World Order dictatorship. Since the Queen's mugshot is on Candian money, how long before the Queen's mugshot will be on the Amerodollar to replace the US dollar?

Quote:




Current bank notes in use in Canada

$2 - Queen Elizabeth II / Robins
$5 - Sir Wilfrid Laurier / Belted Kingfisher
$10 - Sir John A. Macdonald / Osprey in flight
$20 - Queen Elizabeth II / Common Loon
$50 - William Lyon Mackenzie King / Snowy Owl
$100 - Sir Robert Borden / Canada Goose
$1,000 - Queen Elizabeth II / Landscape with Pine Grosbeak

www.monarchyfreecanada.org/currency_facts.htm
www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/general/character/2001-04_20.html






www.deceptiondollar.com

Quote:

"There is a chance for the President of the United States to use this disaster to carry out what his father - a phrase his father used I think only once, and it hasn't been used since - and that is a New World Order."
-US senator Gary Hart, Council on Foreign Relations Corp, CSPAN TV, September 12, 2001


God save uSA. God damn the Queen of Canada.


There is no news. There's the truth of the signal. What I see. And, there's the puppet theater... the Parliament jesters foist on the somnambulant public.
-Mr Universe

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:24 PM

REAVERMAN




same old crap from PN.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:29 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


God, damn Reaverman. Please. He loves those illegal alien cannibals, so torture him with one of their imported diseases. Smite him with Morgellons Disease, that contagious bioweaponized fungus that grows roots in and out of people like some kind of scifi alien coccoon, where Mexican border states of Texas, Florida and California are hardest hit. Thanks. Amen.


www.morgellons.org
www.silentsuperbug.com

Quote:


Hopefuls chided by party

By Mike Linn
Montgomery Advertiser


Alabama's Democratic Party is distancing itself from two Democratic candidates for state office who think all illegal immigrants must leave or be killed.

Party officials described the platforms of candidates Larry Darby and Harry Lyon as ridiculous, unconstitutional and offensive. Darby is running for attorney general, and Lyon is a gubernatorial candidate.

Both agree the influx of illegal immigration into Alabama must be stopped, either through public hangings or martial law.

The party didn't know the men's views before they qualified, said Jim Spearman, the party's executive director. Spearman learned of Lyon's views from the Montgomery Advertiser.

In a statement Friday, the party said Darby would remain on the ballot as a Democrat because there was no formal challenge against him within the timeframe set by its bylaws. Spearman declined to speculate about Lyon.

"His views ... were offensive to many people, across the board," Spearman said of Darby. "It's an embarrassment to the party."

Lyon said if elected, he would sponsor a law to get all illegal immigrants out of the state within 90 days, or be hanged in public.

"It would only take five or 10 getting killed and broadcast on CNN for it to send a clear message to not set foot in Alabama," said Lyon, a Pelham lawyer. "Anybody that breaks into my home is a threat to my life. I remember the Alamo."

"If he's willing to have public hangings of Mexicans, that sounds like he's the right man for the job," Darby said.

Darby said if elected he would ask the governor to institute martial law to stop the influx of illegal immigrants into Alabama. If illegal immigrants attempt to evade law enforcement, they "should be shot on sight," he said.

He said the number of Jews killed in World War II has been grossly exaggerated, and Jews must leave if the United States is to save itself.

"It would be good for Iran to blow Israel off the map," he said.

www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060520/NEWS/
605200332/1001



Why does that sound infinitely more sane than anything Jr Bush has ever said or did? I guess he wants the Bushes and all neoCons to flee or be hanged. That's the only way to save both the DemoRatic and RepubliCon parties IN TIME OF INVASION AND CIVIL WAR.



Someone's carryin a bullet for you right now, and don't even know it.
-Mal, The Message

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:59 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
God save uSA. God damn the Queen of Canada.





Testify piratenews. Everyone in Canada knows the Queen of Canada is simply arm candy to our great and glorious King, may he live forever and shelter us in his protective grasp.

De-lurking to stir stuff up.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:11 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverman:


same old crap from PN.



Give him a break...its alot of new crap.

I have to admit...when I look at the Queen of England, I feel some real fear. I mean all she needs is a little hair on her lip and voila...Hitler reborn! And she eats babies...little Pirate babies.

And clearly something went wrong when they manufactured her son...the ears alone are a dead givaway. When, I ask you, when will Canada throw off the shackles of its slavery to Britsh GermanJew Imperialism and become a free society and stop trying to corrupt poor Mexico and the United States?

PN will be glad to know we turned an illegal over to INS today for a DUI. But then again he hates DUI laws, so he'll be really conflicted now.

H

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:15 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Did your skool teach you about the Council on Foreign Relations Secret Society?

Quote:




North American Union to Replace USA?

by Jerome R. Corsi
Human Events
May 19, 2006

President Bush is pursuing a globalist agenda to create a North American Union, effectively erasing our borders with both Mexico and Canada. This was the hidden agenda behind the Bush administration's true open borders policy.

Secretly, the Bush administration is pursuing a policy to expand NAFTA politically, setting the stage for a North American Union designed to encompass the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. What the Bush administration truly wants is the free, unimpeded movement of people across open borders with Mexico and Canada.

President Bush intends to abrogate U.S. sovereignty to the North American Union, a new economic and political entity which the President is quietly forming, much as the European Union has formed.

The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled "Building a North American Community" published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration's actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union:

Quote:


Building a North American Community

At their meeting in Waco, Texas, at the end of March 2005, U.S. President George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin committed their governments to a path of cooperation and joint action. We welcome this important development and offer this report to add urgency and specific recommendations to strengthen their efforts.

www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/NorthAmerica_TF_final.pdf



What is the plan? Simple, erase the borders. The plan is contained in a "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" little noticed when President Bush and President Fox created it in March 2005:

Quote:

In March 2005, the leaders of Canada, Mexico, and the United States adopted a Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), establishing ministerial-level working groups to address key security and economic issues facing North America and setting a short deadline for reporting progress back to their governments. President Bush described the significance of the SPP as putting forward a common commitment "to markets and democracy, freedom and trade, and mutual prosperity and security." The policy framework articulated by the three leaders is a significant commitment that will benefit from broad discussion and advice. The Task Force is pleased to provide specific advice on how the partnership can be pursued and realized.

To that end, the Task Force proposes the creation by 2010 of a North American community to enhance security, prosperity, and opportunity. We propose a community based on the principle affirmed in the March 2005 Joint Statement of the three leaders that "our security and prosperity are mutually dependent and complementary." Its boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly and safe. Its goal will be to guarantee a free, secure, just, and prosperous North America.



The perspective of the CFR report allows us to see President Bush's speech to the nation as nothing more than public relations posturing and window dressing. No wonder President Vincente Fox called President Bush in a panic after the speech. How could the President go back on his word to Mexico by actually securing our border? Not to worry, President Bush reassured President Fox. The National Guard on the border were only temporary, meant to last only as long until the public forgets about the issue, as has always been the case in the past.

The North American Union plan, which Vincente Fox has every reason to presume President Bush is still following, calls for the only border to be around the North American Union -- not between any of these countries. Or, as the CFR report stated:

Quote:

The three governments should commit themselves to the long-term goal of dramatically diminishing the need for the current intensity of the governments’ physical control of cross-border traffic, travel, and trade within North America. A long-term goal for a North American border action plan should be joint screening of travelers from third countries at their first point of entry into North America and the elimination of most controls over the temporary movement of these travelers within North America.


Discovering connections like this between the CFR recommendations and Bush administration policy gives credence to the argument that President Bush favors amnesty and open borders, as he originally said. Moreover, President Bush most likely continues to consider groups such as the Minuteman Project to be "vigilantes," as he has also said in response to a reporter's question during the March 2005 meeting with President Fox.

Why doesn’t President Bush just tell the truth? His secret agenda is to dissolve the United States of America into the North American Union. The administration has no intent to secure the border, or to enforce rigorously existing immigration laws. Securing our border with Mexico is evidently one of the jobs President Bush just won't do. If a fence is going to be built on our border with Mexico, evidently the Minuteman Project is going to have to build the fence themselves. Will President Bush protect America's sovereignty, or is this too a job the Minuteman Project will have to do for him?

www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=14965
www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/north_american_union_replace_usa.htm


www.michellemalkin.com/archives/004869.htm


Just what USA needs - 200-million illegal aliens in the next 20 years. CFR Inc is a "secretive society" with 3,500 members, HQed in New York City, as seen on History Channel TV's "Secret Societies".

Quote:


GOLDWATER SEES ELITIST SENTIMENTS THREATENING LIBERTIES

By U.S. Senator Barry M. Goldwater (1979)


www.cfr.org
www.foreignaffairs.org

"Their syllogistic argument goes like this: THE COUNCIL HAS DOMINATED AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY SINCE 1945. ALL AMERICAN POLICY DECISIONS HAVE RESULTED IN LOSSES TO THE COMMUNISTS. Therefore, all members of the council are communist sympathizers.

"Many of the policies advocated by the council have been damaging to the cause of freedom and particularly to the United States. But this is not because the members are communists or communist sympathizers. This explanation of our foreign policy reversals is too pat, too simplistic.

"I believe that the Council on Foreign Relations and its ancillary elitist groups are indifferent to communism. They have no ideological anchors. IN THEIR PURSUIT OF A NEW WORLD ORDER, THEY ARE PREPARED TO DEAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE WITH A COMMUNIST STATE, A SOCIALIST STATE, a democratic state, a monarchy, an oligarchy - its all the same to them.

"THEIR GOAL IS TO impose a benign stability on the quarreling family of nations through merger and consolidation. THEY SEE THE ELIMINATION OF NATIONAL BOUNDARIES, THE SUPPRESSION OF RACIAL AND ETHNIC LOYALTIES, as the most expeditious avenue to world peace. They believe economic competition is the root cause of international tension.

"Perhaps if the council's vision of the future were realized, it would reduce wars, lessen poverty and bring about a more efficient utilization of the world's resources. To my mind, THIS WOULD INEVITABLY BE ACCOMPANIED BY A LOSS IN PERSONAL FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF THE RESTRAINTS THAT PROVOKED THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

"THE INSTITUTE OF PACIFIC RELATIONS WAS BEHIND THE DECISION TO CUT OFF AID TO CHIANG KAI-SHEK UNLESS HE EMBRACED THE COMMUNISTS, AND THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS IS THE PARENT RGANIZATION OF THE INSTITUTE OF PACIFIC RELATIONS.

"In 1962, Nelson Rockefeller (founder of World Trade Center), in a lecture at Harvard University on the interdependence of nations in the modern world, said: "And so the nation-state, standing alone, threatens in many ways to seem as anachronistic as the Greek city-state eventually became in ancient times."

"Everything he said was true. We are dependent on other nations for raw materials and for markets. It is necessary to have defense alliances with other nations in order to balance the military power of those who would destroy us.

"WHERE I DIFFER FROM Rockefeller is in the suggestion that to achieve this new federalism, THE UNITED STATES MUST SUBMERGE ITS NATIONAL IDENTITY AND SURRENDER SUBSTANTIAL MATTERS OF SOVEREIGNTY TO A NEW POLITICAL ORDER.

"Whereas the council on Foreign Relations is distinctly national, representation is allocated equally to Western Europe, Japan and the United States. It is intended to act as the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests BY SEIZING CONTROL OF THE POLITICAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

"ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI AND DAVID ROCKEFELLER SCREENED AND SELECTED EVERY INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN SHAPING AND ADMINISTERING THE PROPOSED NEW WORLD ORDER.

Full Text and partial list of CFR members:
www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/multi/goldwatr.html



CFR Corporation wrote the charter for United Nations Corporation. NAFTA SHAFTA officially merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is a member of 53-nation British Commwealth ruled by the German Queen of England Elizabeth Sax Coberg Gotha. So USA has now officially lost the Revolutionary War, and is again a colony of the British Empire, aka the New World Order dictatorship. Since the Queen's mugshot is on Candian money, how long before the Queen's mugshot will be on the Amerodollar to replace the US dollar?

Quote:




Current bank notes in use in Canada

$2 - Queen Elizabeth II / Robins
$5 - Sir Wilfrid Laurier / Belted Kingfisher
$10 - Sir John A. Macdonald / Osprey in flight
$20 - Queen Elizabeth II / Common Loon
$50 - William Lyon Mackenzie King / Snowy Owl
$100 - Sir Robert Borden / Canada Goose
$1,000 - Queen Elizabeth II / Landscape with Pine Grosbeak

www.monarchyfreecanada.org/currency_facts.htm
www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/general/character/2001-04_20.html






www.deceptiondollar.com

Quote:

"There is a chance for the President of the United States to use this disaster to carry out what his father - a phrase his father used I think only once, and it hasn't been used since - and that is a New World Order."
-US senator Gary Hart, Council on Foreign Relations Corp, CSPAN TV, September 12, 2001


God save uSA. God damn the Queen of Canada.


There is no news. There's the truth of the signal. What I see. And, there's the puppet theater... the Parliament jesters foist on the somnambulant public.
-Mr Universe

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php





Ho, Ho, Ho.
When we've finished with your foolish little colonies you will wish you'd never started your silly little so-called Revolution.

The Sun will never set on the Empire PN and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
You will be cattle-prod raped to death in Gitmo and the Queen will be laughing all the way to the bank (of England).

Listen?
Was that a knock on your door PN?

Death to all seditionist traitors and God save Her Royal Brittanic Majesty The Queen Empress.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"He loves those illegal alien cannibals"

I missed this before. What's this about? Some new conspiracy theory or some old one?

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:02 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


It's PIRATENEWS so it's the same old-same old, but with pretty photos of flags and Dollar bills and such.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:36 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Would you PLEASE not drag Canada into your crazy world PN, we're just starting to get our legs back on solid ground after the Liberal Boondoggle problem. Spread your taint but leave us the hell out of it. Or go spread your shit somewhere else.

That felt good.

Btw, did YOUR school not teach you how to SPELL school?

skool. *shudder*

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Actually, I think skool was his attempt at humor.

And no, Canada need not be left out. Piratenews has managed to insert every other country and ethnicity into his conspiracy theories. Equal slander for equal innocence, I always say.

Well, I haven't always said it, actually. But I'll say it now.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:53 PM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
And no, Canada need not be left out. Piratenews has managed to insert every other country and ethnicity into his conspiracy theories.



Except eskimos. I haven't seen him say that eskimos are trying to take over the world... yet...




You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:11 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I see the peanut gallery is still wanking itself in the monkey cage.

Today, US Senate will pass its bull to grant citizenship to 200-million criminal terrorists. Hero must be so proud. Think of all those alien DUIs, rapes, robberies and homicides he can extort for his fat paycheck from Gangsta Govt.

Quote:


Bill permits 193 million more aliens by 2026

By Charles Hurt
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
May 16, 2006

The Senate immigration reform bill would allow for up to 193 million new legal immigrants -- a number greater than 60 percent of the current U.S. population -- in the next 20 years, according to a study released yesterday.

"The magnitude of changes that are entailed in this bill -- and are largely unknown -- rival the impact of the creation of Social Security or the creation of the Medicare program," said Robert Rector, senior policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation who conducted the study.

Although the legislation would permit 193 million new immigrants in the next two decades, Mr. Rector estimated that it is more likely that about 103 million new immigrants actually would arrive in the next 20 years.

Sen. Jeff Sessions, Alabama Republican who conducted a separate analysis that reached similar results, said Congress is "blissfully ignorant of the scope and impact" of the bill, which has bipartisan support in the Senate and has been praised by President Bush.

The 614-page "compromise" bill -- hastily cobbled together last month by Republican Sens. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mel Martinez of Florida -- would give illegal aliens who have been in the U.S. two years or longer a right to citizenship. Illegals who have been here less than two years would have to return to their home countries to apply for citizenship.

Although that "amnesty" would be granted to about 10 million illegals, the real growth in the immigrant population would come later.

As part of the bill, the annual flow of legal immigrants allowed into the U.S. would more than double to more than 2 million annually. In addition, the guest-worker program in the bill would bring in 325,000 new workers annually who could later apply for citizenship.

That population would grow exponentially from there because the millions of new citizens would be permitted to bring along their extended families. Also, Mr. Sessions said, the bill includes "escalating caps," which would raise the number of immigrants allowed in as more people seek to enter the U.S.

The 614-page "compromise" bill -- hastily cobbled together last month by Republican Sens. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mel Martinez of Florida -- would give illegal aliens who have been in the U.S. two years or longer a right to citizenship. Illegals who have been here less than two years would have to return to their home countries to apply for citizenship.

Although that "amnesty" would be granted to about 10 million illegals, the real growth in the immigrant population would come later.

As part of the bill, the annual flow of legal immigrants allowed into the U.S. would more than double to more than 2 million annually. In addition, the guest-worker program in the bill would bring in 325,000 new workers annually who could later apply for citizenship.

That population would grow exponentially from there because the millions of new citizens would be permitted to bring along their extended families. Also, Mr. Sessions said, the bill includes "escalating caps," which would raise the number of immigrants allowed in as more people seek to enter the U.S.

Mr. Rector estimated that the eventual cost of the bill to the American taxpayer would be about $50 billion per year. Mr. Sessions said he hopes to educate his colleagues about what's in the bill before they vote on it, but there's little evidence that they're interested.

Last month, he asked the Senate Judiciary Committee to conduct an in-depth study and hold hearings into the fiscal impact of the bill as well as the impact the bill would have on future immigration. The committee produced no study and held one hearing strictly on the fiscal aspects of the bill. Only three of his fellow panel members showed up, he said.

www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060516-125016-4401r.htm


Quote:


Senate Immigration Bill Would Allow 193-Million New Legal Immigrants over the Next Twenty Years

by Robert Rector
Heritage Foundation
May 15, 2006

If enacted, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S.2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years—fully one-third of the current population of the United States.

The maximum number that could legally enter would be almost 200 million over twenty years—over 180 million more legal immigrants than current law permits.

Much attention has been given to the fact that the bill grants amnesty to some 10 million illegal immigrants. Little or no attention has been given to the fact that the bill would quintuple the rate of legal immigration into the United States, raising, over time, the inflow of legal immigrants from around one million per year to over five million per year. The impact of this increase in legal immigration dwarfs the magnitude of the amnesty provisions.

In contrast to the 103 million immigrants permitted under CIRA, current law allows 19 million legal immigrants over the next twenty years. Relative to current law, then, CIRA would add an extra 84 million legal immigrants to the nation’s population.

CIRA offers amnesty and citizenship to 85 percent of the nation’s current 11.9 million illegal immigrants. (sic)

www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm




www.michellemalkin.com/archives/004869.htm



Senate kingpin CanniBill Frist, who promises to vote for this insane amnesty for criminals, personally paid an $840-MILLION criminal fine for Medicare fraud on govt contracts, so he was promoted to speaker of the US Senate in his freshman year.
www.geocities.com/idiotboxwars

Washington DC = District of Criminals.


Quote:


Abbie Bernstein:

Do you believe a government can be shamed into or out of what it's doing by the actions of individuals?

Joss Whedon:

The idea was to say that people can make a difference, they can show the wrongs that are being done. They can speak out against them and make people aware of them. They can even create giant scandals. Sometimes they can topple governments. The point is that the truth is always more important than the power structure, and whether you make a dent or not, the fact that you succeeded in trying is a victory.

-Serenity - The Official Visual Companion



FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:35 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Theres no such thing as "The U.S. Senate" as you are all part of the British Empire as laid down in NAFTA-SAFTA-HAPPYEVERAFTA.

Knock, Knock PIRATENEWS,
The time draws nigh.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You know I think PN is a crank but there is some truth to the rumor...

Ordinary Canadians don't want a unified North American continent but corporations sure do. There really IS an evil worldwide conspiracy! It is the very wealthy who pit us against each other in the bottom of the barrel and who leverage one nation against another until everyone is ground up. Has nothing to do with a Knights Templar-Jewish-Communist-British conspiracy tho. It's very equal opportunity.

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:17 AM

CHOO1701


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Give him a break...its alot of new crap.

I have to admit...when I look at the Queen of England, I feel some real fear. I mean all she needs is a little hair on her lip and voila...Hitler reborn! And she eats babies...little Pirate babies.

And clearly something went wrong when they manufactured her son...the ears alone are a dead givaway. When, I ask you, when will Canada throw off the shackles of its slavery to Britsh GermanJew Imperialism and become a free society and stop trying to corrupt poor Mexico and the United States?

PN will be glad to know we turned an illegal over to INS today for a DUI. But then again he hates DUI laws, so he'll be really conflicted now.

H



Careful what your saying about some people's Monarch's. (and the Queen doesn't run the country. Put "English Civil War" into Wiki or Google and you'll find out why.)


"Remember, always be yourself. Unless you suck."-Joss Whedon

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:48 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Choo1701:
Careful what your saying about some people's Monarch's. (and the Queen doesn't run the country.


Yeah, I was being sarcastic. Its an ongoing inside joke on PN. Ask around.

H

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:02 AM

CHOO1701


My Bad...sorry....V

*goes find under rock*

"Remember, always be yourself. Unless you suck."-Joss Whedon

- Thanks Joss.....

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:40 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


SignyM,
Quote:

You know I think PN is a crank but there is some truth to the rumor...

Ordinary Canadians don't want a unified North American continent but corporations sure do. There really IS an evil worldwide conspiracy! It is the very wealthy who pit us against each other in the bottom of the barrel and who leverage one nation against another until everyone is ground up. Has nothing to do with a Knights Templar-Jewish-Communist-British conspiracy tho. It's very equal opportunity.

The problem with Pirate News is that it's way to easy to just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll ... even though the links themselves are actually informative (if off topic). And even though I too think there is a world-wide conspiracy of the very wealthy. But PN has such a crazy interpretation, no one will even consider it. He sabotages the topic.

Even though your description was, as always, powerful and illuminating.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:05 AM

AMITON


No need to hide, Choo! You didn't know any better and you were trying to head off some nastiness!

While that may not be in your own personal best interest in the heft of the RWED regular uncivil war, it's an admirable action just the same =)

Besides, if you hang around long enough in these sectors then you're bound to say something to have somebody place you firmly under a rock somewhere with no doubt as to how they meant to say things =p When that happens, just take in stride, put on your thick skin and asbestos undies, and do your best to keep the discussion intellectual and honest. It'll be all right in the end =)

Amiton.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The problem with Pirate News is that it's way to easy to just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll ...
OMG! You found me out!!! You must have peeked thru my windows and seen me scroll, scroll, scroll... thru PN's posts. I try to get thru them - I swear! But my eyes just keep closing and then the voices in my head start...

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:29 AM

WISHUPONAWASH


scroll scroll, badly spelled, scroll scroll, insane conspiracy theory, scroll scroll, another hillbilly who believes that people are trying to invade his country, scroll scroll, yawn

Read your profile PN. Possibly it's meant as a joke, who can tell.


Here's how it might of been www.stillflying.net/

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:29 AM

WISHUPONAWASH


scroll scroll, badly spelled, scroll scroll, insane conspiracy theory, scroll scroll, another hillbilly who believes that people are trying to invade his country, scroll scroll, yawn

Read your profile PN. Possibly it's meant as a joke, who can tell.


Here's how it might of been www.stillflying.net/

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:16 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Misstressahara:

Would you PLEASE not drag Canada into your crazy world PN, we're just starting to get our legs back on solid ground after the Liberal Boondoggle problem.




And onto the new Conservative problem. Read the paper today. Apparently, our presi... sorry, Prime Minister said that he's no longer going to talk to the national media because they are against his administration. Instead, he's going to only talk to the more freindly local media.

Not to mention that he doesn't answer questions he doesn't like, nor is he telling us anything about what he and Bush talk about during official visits, etc.

The US has Bush, we got closet Bush. We're both fucked.


----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:17 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Actually, I think skool was his attempt at humor.

And no, Canada need not be left out. Piratenews has managed to insert every other country and ethnicity into his conspiracy theories. Equal slander for equal innocence, I always say.

Well, I haven't always said it, actually. But I'll say it now.




But, we asked nicely and said please

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:24 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
But PN has such a crazy interpretation, no one will even consider it. He sabotages the topic.

Further proof that PN is actually a disinformation operative in the employ of the killer bakini vampire girls that really run the planet.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:42 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


What can I say. Poor PN. He seems to have all sorts of time, and all sorts of information, and just can't seem - to - put - it - together.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 11:27 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

The US has Bush, we got closet Bush. We're both fucked.




What's wrong SigmaNunki? You miss the Liberals hands in your pockets? I guess Harper is doing okay if all you have to gripe about is his relationship with the media. I'm not going to mention his secret meetings with Bush for fear of drawing PN's attention.


De-lurking to stir stuff up.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 11:50 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

What's wrong SigmaNunki? You miss the Liberals hands in your pockets? I guess Harper is doing okay if all you have to gripe about is his relationship with the media. I'm not going to mention his secret meetings with Bush for fear of drawing PN's attention.




\begin{sarcasm}
Yeah, b/c that's the only thing I can cite.
\end{sarcasm}

How about the Afgan thing? He's going to have a vote but it's non-binding and he's already stated that no matter what the outcome is, he's going to do what he wants anyway. Or how about that he may even bring it to a referendum that'll as well be non-binding and again he'll do whatever he wants. So, big waste of money plus does whatever he wants.

How about that he has basically removed Canada from Kyoto?

etc

There is loads of things that I can say about the current administration. I just didn't say it in the above post. To assume that that is the only thing that I got against the current administration is such a large fallacy it isn't funny.

And by the way, every government has there hands it everyones pockets. The only difference is if they get caught.


Also, if you respond to this post, you're going to have to do better than bring a strawman to the table. Otherwise I won't even respond next time.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Friday, May 26, 2006 12:53 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:


How about the Afgan thing? He's going to have a vote but it's non-binding and he's already stated that no matter what the outcome is, he's going to do what he wants anyway. Or how about that he may even bring it to a referendum that'll as well be non-binding and again he'll do whatever he wants. So, big waste of money plus does whatever he wants.



There was a vote, and Harper "won" because the Liberals could not vote against extending their original mission. Let's not forget that the Conservatives hold a minority Government so Harper cannot do whatever he wants. An election can be triggered at any time by a vote of non confidence on any issue. Harper realizes the opportunity of a leaderless official opposition and has the acumen to exploit it.

Quote:


How about that he has basically removed Canada from Kyoto?



I would like to see an actual workable solution then to keep flogging the dead horse that is Kyoto. Tell me how the environment will improve by sending cash to non-industrial countries as carbon credits? I think the Conservatives are on the right track by mandating 10% ethanol in all gasoline by 2010.

Quote:


There is loads of things that I can say about the current administration. I just didn't say it in the above post. To assume that that is the only thing that I got against the current administration is such a large fallacy it isn't funny.



I believe I said IF that is your only problem. Obviously it was not and you were kind enough to discuss others. That's how good discussions begin.

Quote:


Also, if you respond to this post, you're going to have to do better than bring a strawman to the table. Otherwise I won't even respond next time.



Respond or not. Either way I get to say what I want. Though I do enjoy a lively discussion.

----


De-lurking to stir stuff up.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 12:55 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
And by the way, every government has there hands it everyones pockets. The only difference is if they get caught.

The only difference is that "Tax and Spend" liberals tax the rich and poor to help those that need it.

"Spend and Cut" conservatives tax the poor so they can afford a cut for the rich, that need the money more, obviously, to afford an engorged millitary.

At least thats how it works over here.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 2:07 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

The only difference is that "Tax and Spend" liberals tax the rich and poor to help those that need it.

"Spend and Cut" conservatives tax the poor so they can afford a cut for the rich, that need the money more, obviously, to afford an engorged millitary.

At least thats how it works over here.




The only difference between over there and over here is that over here it's more along the lines of the poor get taxed more than the rich. That's probably due to our close proximity to the US.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Friday, May 26, 2006 2:20 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

There was a vote, and Harper "won" because the Liberals could not vote against extending their original mission. Let's not forget that the Conservatives hold a minority Government so Harper cannot do whatever he wants. An election can be triggered at any time by a vote of non confidence on any issue. Harper realizes the opportunity of a leaderless official opposition and has the acumen to exploit it.




Actually, extending the Afgan this is _not_ the original mission. Part of what is going on is adding a distinct offensive military component. Something which was _not_ discussed in the house, but Harper is just running with.

The Conservatives may have a minority government right now, BUT, they also have the support of the Bloc. He's promising everything they want for there support and is getting it. But, I imagine that he will pull the rug from underneath them when the time is right. Anyone remember Mulroney? He did the exact same thing.


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

I would like to see an actual workable solution then to keep flogging the dead horse that is Kyoto. Tell me how the environment will improve by sending cash to non-industrial countries as carbon credits? I think the Conservatives are on the right track by mandating 10% ethanol in all gasoline by 2010.




Where are you? In Alberta? Tell me how reducing greenhouse emittions won't help the environment. Perhaps you should look into Germany and how it's imporved there environment. Forests are getting heathier, etc. And this is all after they reduced there emissions.

Your also going to have to let me in on, how the local population won't benefit from cleaner air, cleaner ground water, etc. Do you honestly think that we're meant to be this sick?

Basically, this isn't just a global issue, it is a local one too. And the benefits have already been proven at least on the local scale.



----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Friday, May 26, 2006 2:38 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Ah yes, Alberta. I think of it as 'The Texas of Canada'.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:16 PM

REAVERMAN


Hey, I just noticed something! PN hasn't posted here in an entire day! This is how we need to deal with him. Just ignore him and start discussing Canadian politics! It appears to shut him up.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:28 PM

SASSALICIOUS


Or you can take my route. Either a)say "I'm a better person than you and I'm done or b)say "You're not going to win this argument with me. Blah blah blah . . . UT sucks" Still hasn't gotten back to me on that one.

Canada can't fall to a closet Bush! Where will I run to when I eventually need to escape? I'm not sure I want to spend the rest of my life in Vietnam and the EU (Germany or other English country) is too hard to bust into!!!!

I'M SCREWED!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:56 PM

LITTLEALBATROSS


I know I should know better than to respond to a thread that PN started, but I just can't resist a discussion on Canadian politics

Oh - and a note to PN: if you're going to post loooooooong posts of info, at least try to check if it's accurate/up to date. Everyone knows there are no robins on the back of the two dollar bill. It's a polar bear on the front of the two dollar coin.

Quote:

Actually, extending the Afgan this is _not_ the original mission. Part of what is going on is adding a distinct offensive military component. Something which was _not_ discussed in the house, but Harper is just running with.


The problem with Afghanistan is that at this point, the mission almost has to be offensive to be successful. This isn't a case where peacekeepers can just stand between two sides and keep them from fighting. That said, command needs to go back to NATO.

Quote:

The Conservatives may have a minority government right now, BUT, they also have the support of the Bloc. He's promising everything they want for there support and is getting it. But, I imagine that he will pull the rug from underneath them when the time is right. Anyone remember Mulroney? He did the exact same thing.


There may not need to be any rug pulling. Conservative support is increasing in Quebec, and Harper's best PM-Premier relationship appears to be with Charest (despite his being Liberal). At a certain point the Bloc may decide it's simply not worth it to cooperate - there getting what they want, but losing their base, the reward isn't worth the risk.

Of course, this will likely happen after the Liberals choose a new leader and an election is approaching.



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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:26 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Ah yes, Alberta. I think of it as 'The Texas of Canada'.




Why yes, I am from Alberta. And we consider Texas the Alberta of the States. Now what other places can we make broad generalizations about?

De-lurking to stir stuff up.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 10:27 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Hey SigmaNunki, It's some kind of fun hijacking someone else's thread.

Quote:


Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

The Conservatives may have a minority government right now, BUT, they also have the support of the Bloc. He's promising everything they want for there support and is getting it. But, I imagine that he will pull the rug from underneath them when the time is right. Anyone remember Mulroney? He did the exact same thing.



I remember Mulroney. Wasn't he one of the author's of the Meech Lake Accord which failed due in large part because of Trudeau. Regardless, Harper and Mulroney are both Conservatives so that means they both follow the same secret agenda and will do the exact same thing.

Quote:


Tell me how reducing greenhouse emittions won't help the environment. Perhaps you should look into Germany and how it's imporved there environment. Forests are getting heathier, etc. And this is all after they reduced there emissions.

Your also going to have to let me in on, how the local population won't benefit from cleaner air, cleaner ground water, etc. Do you honestly think that we're meant to be this sick?



I am all for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Cleaner burning fuels, tax rebates for purchases of low emission vehicles and transit passes. Subsidies for producers and users of alternative power sources such as wind and solar. The Kyoto targets are not attainable which means buying credits from Chad to continue going along our merry instead of working on sensible at-home solutions. I think the environment could be happy in Rona Ambrose's hands, I know I would be.





De-lurking to stir stuff up.

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:55 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


It is fun hijacking threads. Alberta as the Texas of Canada is a sweeping but well founded generalization. I listened to every single minute of the constitutional convention. Alberta - 'tar sands Alberta' - considered itself better off unattached and owning 'its' resources. Anything business is good, anything national government is bad. Oil, anti-national government, religious and conservative, wild-west. Yep, it's the Canadian (or Canadien) Texas.
Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Ah yes, Alberta. I think of it as 'The Texas of Canada'.




Why yes, I am from Alberta. And we consider Texas the Alberta of the States. Now what other places can we make broad generalizations about?

De-lurking to stir stuff up.




Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:12 PM

DARWINSHANDMAIDEN


Advantages to having a North American Union from a Canadian perspective:
1) Canadian money would be the legal tender because it's so pretty
2) Starbucks would have competition in the form of Tim Horton's
3)Canadian rock group "Rush" would sing the national anthem (whatever that would be) at all baseball, hockey and other national sport games. Beauty, eh?
4) Beavers would replace the eagle as the national symbol - we would train them to damn rivers for electricity.
5) Toques would become high fashion

I picks them up, I drops them off.

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 6:52 PM

HARDWARE


You mean Canada isn't a broad slab of permafrost inhabited only by polar bears and Eskimos???

Damn, you've shattered my world view PN.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:56 AM

HAYWARD79


"The only difference is that "Tax and Spend" liberals tax the rich and poor to help those that need it.

"Spend and Cut" conservatives tax the poor so they can afford a cut for the rich, that need the money more, obviously, to afford an engorged millitary.

At least thats how it works over here."

This comment is so ignortant and economically false that I hardly know where to begin. But you might begin with Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom."

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:04 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Quote:

Originally posted by darwinshandmaiden:
Advantages to having a North American Union from a Canadian perspective:
1) Canadian money would be the legal tender because it's so pretty
2) Starbucks would have competition in the form of Tim Horton's
3)Canadian rock group "Rush" would sing the national anthem (whatever that would be) at all baseball, hockey and other national sport games. Beauty, eh?
4) Beavers would replace the eagle as the national symbol - we would train them to damn rivers for electricity.
5) Toques would become high fashion

I picks them up, I drops them off.






I think "If I had a million dollars" by Barenaked ladies should be your national anthem, there Canadian right?

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:59 AM

DARWINSHANDMAIDEN


Barenaked Ladies are indeed Canadian - but we would have to update the song to "If I had a Trillion Dollars" in order to pay off the American national debt.

I picks them up, I drops them off.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:15 PM

CITIZEN


Howard79:
Or maybe you can enlighten me, rather than saying I should make your point for you, since what I said is exactly how it works.

You’re the ignorant one, since you ignore reality because it doesn't fit your world view.




More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:57 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So Wayward99,

I read The Road to Serfdom. Did you? If not, it's here: http://www.mises.org/TRTS.htm

Some of the more interesting quotes are:
Quote:


To permit mobilization of your country's economy, you gladly surrender many freedoms. You know regimentation was forced by your country's enemies.

Hmmm ...... sounds like Bush's kleptocracy to me. Could BUSH be putting the US on the road to serfdom? Just a thought.
Quote:

In an unsuccessful plan to educate people to uniform views, "planners" establish a giant propaganda machine -which the coming dictator will find handy
Well, certainly the PNAC established 'think' tanks, honed their word-smithing, and framed the debate for roughly the past three decades. Not sayin' that they consider themselves the 'planners' or anything, just sayin' it looks like it.
Quote:

The gullible do find agreement ....
Just a thought, there.
Quote:

A negative aim welds party unity.
As does an unofficial but never ending 'war on terror' and a bogeyman like ObL allowed to escape for all these five years.
Quote:

No one opposes the plan ... It would be suicide; new secret police are ruthless

Hayden is confirmed, it's OK to spy on 1 in every 10 Americans, secretly wiretap without ever getting a court order, police which books are checked out of libraries.

After all, if you have nothing to hide, why should you be worried, right?



Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:22 PM

FLETCH2


Taxation policy is extremely simple. The government needs money to fund its programs and it can get this money one of three ways.

1) It can raise it with taxation.
2) It can borrow it
3) It can print it.

Generally most people agree that 3) is a bad option since you risk inflation, destruction of wealth and other nastiness. So in the end you have two finacing choices and the decision is which to use to finance government spending.

1) If you tax more then people have less money to spend on investment and purchase less goods. This has a bad knock on effect to the real economy and can cause an economic slowdown.

2) Borrowing money locally reduces the amout of free capital in your system. Laws of supply and demand operate and the result is that within your local capital markets interest rates rise as private concerns vie to access the reduced amount of free capital. This effects local investment, morgage rates etc and ultimately has bad knock on effects to the real economy. What the US has been doing is borrowing heavily from abroad which mean that government needs have been satisfied while keeping enough free capital in the US system to keep low interest rates. This is great if you can do it. The problem is that these loans will be repariated sooner or later and the people that hold them will probably try to convert them into US currency hard assets -- like oil or US companies.

Now if you decide to raise taxes to fund the government the only question becomes who do you take it from? Do you flat tax and charge the guy that sweeps the floor the same rate as the CEO of the company? Do you have a sliding scale that lets the little guy keep comparatively more than the big guy? Do you do away with taxes on income all together and tax only consumption?

You'll find advocates for all of these solutions but in the end it comes down to which system benefits THEM. Of course the rich want a flat tax or a comsumption tax it moves the burden from them to someone else. Of course the little guy thinks taxing the rich is fair, why wouldnt he? So for all the tooing and froing about tax it comes down to this, we all want some form of government and we all want someone else to pay for most of it.

Of course there is another solution which is to reduce the government budget to a more acceptable level. This is what should have been done after the Bush "tax cut" but they didn't. Instead spending actually went up and was only offset by extra borrowing. The reason that government tends to grow rather than shrink is that once a government is involved in something cutting funding will hurt someone and come with a political cost. Politicians don't like paying the piper so bridges to nowhere and other weirdness tends to continue until the government simply cannot afford to keep feeding itself and fails.


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Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:33 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And yet - when Clinton raised tax on the relatively wealthy, the economy soared and the budget became balanced. In fact it ran a surplus. All boats floated.

In your schema, these should never have happened. How do you account (literally) for this?


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:00 PM

FLETCH2


Government raised taxes both for income and capital gains. During Clintons era three things happened.

1) Government spending stagnated -- a byproduct of having Republicans in the Congress and a Democrat in the Whitehouse, in real terms Gov spending didn't rise.

2) The government got a cut of the increased market activity associated with the internet bubble. Taxation of capital gains and then the income those gains generated were both taxed and went into government funds.

3) There was really no international competition for the US. German was still in the doldrums paying for reunification and that kept most of Europe down, the Asian market collapse effected the pacific rim and China wasn't as big a player. It's easy to win the game if you are the only team playing.

Governments can create conditions that favour a strong economy but unless they own the industries they can't force the economy to work. That's why some of the claims about tax policy is so funny. Tax cut advocates like to think of tax cuts like a shot of addrenalin that can restart a dying economy. Nice medical metaphore but Adrenalin shots dont always revive patients, sometimes they just die. Borrowing money to finance a tax cut has the same impact as borrowing money and building a dam or other public works with it, it puts money to work in the economy and that muliplies out and creates demand. It's a question of political dogma to decide if that money has more effect being spent by tax payers or the government.


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Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:12 PM

CITIZEN


FLETCH:
If I may assume for a moment.

You’re saying that everyone wants a government but on the whole everyone wants someone else to pay for it.

This I agree with.

I'm someone who can be considered rich; I have a very high disposable income.

What I can't countenance is someone how wishes to live in society without paying for the responsibilities, i.e. defending and looking after those who are weaker than oneself.

If we were to live in a survival of the fittest world the human race would have died out by now. We are a species through our intelligence have circumnavigated survival of the fittest, so when someone wishes to return to survival of the fittest because they believe it will improve their position all I can say is “fine, we’ll drop you in the Amazon, see you again… if you survive…”



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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