REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

9/11 Conspiracy Theories

POSTED BY: GREENFAERIE
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 18:03
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Sunday, April 9, 2006 2:56 PM

GREENFAERIE


I consider myself an American Patriot. I love this country, and the people living here. But I am not fond of the government, and consider myself apolitical, because I think most politicians are crooked liars.

I don't believe most conspiracy theories. But I acknowledge that some have proven to be true.

All I want are answers to these questions...

1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?

2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?

3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?

5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?

6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?

Please answer these questions, so I can go back to being an American who believes his government is doing the right thing. So I can get back to my life of playing video games, ignoring the daily news, and eating McDonalds. Or not.






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Sunday, April 9, 2006 4:26 PM

FLETCH2


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
I consider myself an American Patriot. I love this country, and the people living here. But I am not fond of the government, and consider myself apolitical, because I think most politicians are crooked liars.

I don't believe most conspiracy theories. But I acknowledge that some have proven to be true.

All I want are answers to these questions...




I'll give some of these a go!!

Quote:



1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?




To make the structure light enough that it could be built that high and to allow for big windows it was built using a cross support system rather than being fully framed as you would a shorter structure. In essence this made the thing operate more like a house of cards, each section was dependent on it's neighbours for rigidity, take enough neighbours out and the remaining load becomes transfered to the remaing structural elements.

There were relatively thin sections of bracket that linked the major structural sections and were intended to stop them from flexing. Under normal conditions these brackets only dealt with wind effects, with the towers damaged they now transfered the load from the damaged to the undamaged sections of steelwork. As the fire burned these weaker brackets started to deform under the excess pressure. They didn't have to be molten do deform something you'll probably remember from metalwork in school, a school furnace can never get hot enough to melt metal but all it takes to bend it is to heat it enough to become maluable. Under pressure the brackets bent in the heat, decoupled the structural steel sections from it's neighbour and the towers fell.

Great special on it on the Discovery Channel.


Quote:




2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?




Dunno but perhaps the effect of several hundred thousand tonnes of material landing on it's foundations? That area is reclaimed land it took them quite an effort to make it stable enough to build on. We know from the earthquake in Japan that reclaimed land can fluidize when adjitated and this causes the footings of buildings to slip.

Quote:



3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

[ /quote]

During impacts an objects own mass is effectively used against it since inertia tries to keep an object moving forwards. Light objects therefore suffer less damage than heavier objects in the same accident. It's not unheard of in crashes for $70,000 black box recorders to be smashed beyond recognition and for passenger victims cheap digital watches to still be working.

Quote:



4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?




Do you have their address? I know some folks who would like a word with them?

Quote:



5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?




He's hiding.

Quote:



6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?




Says who? There are people that smuggle gold into Pakistan because of the need of jewelers.


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Sunday, April 9, 2006 4:55 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?


2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?


3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

Steel doesn’t need to melt to loose structure integrity. In fact at 1000ºF steel looses almost 50% of its strength and at 1800ºF it loose 80-90%, which is more then enough loss of strength to collapse the towers and there was more then enough heat to cause that.

The “demolition myth” is absurd on its face. The towers did not collapse as efficiently as if by demolition, and in fact, surrounding buildings were so heavily damaged by falling debris from the main towers that they had to be condemned or in some collapsed on their own, as WTC7 did. NIST researchers confirmed that WTC7 was seriously damaged by falling debris, one report indicating that 25% of the depth of the building had been “scooped out.”

A lot of things survive explosions, particularly if they are small, lightweight and not tied down. Then they tend to just go flying instead of breaking apart. Path of least resistance and all.
Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?

They didn’t make the flight.
Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?

He’s doing what all crooks who attract too much attention do; he’s hiding. How do you say “on the lamb” in Arabic?
Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?

What about bin Laden makes anyone think he is an avid following of Islamic law? Bin Laden is a follower of his own law.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 5:09 PM

ROLANDREYNOLDS


I don't have answers for you, but I have been directed to some interesting documentaries on the subject. I suspect that maybe the points you made were brought to you via a chain that started from the 'Loose Change 2nd Edition' documentary. It can be found here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+c
hange


It's well done, so I recommend taking the time to let the whole thing load (runs about 80 minutes).

As with anything, it should be taken with a grain of salt (i.e. an objective eye that realizes that all pieces of media have slant, in varying degrees, so that an intelligent assessment can be made).

I found this documentary to be superior to another like it called 'In Plane Site' which came out a couple years ago, I think.

After it's been watched, let us know what you think.

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 5:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Greenfaerie -

You ask some legitimate questions, and there have been some excellent replies. I hope you take the time to study this more for yourself. Try to comprehend the physics of a fully loaded/fueled jet liner traveling at 500 mph has on a structure. Also, understand that the WTC buildings 1 and 2 weren't built like most other sky scrapers. Much of the weight was supported from the outside. While initially this wasn't such an issue, the resulting fires and furnace effect caused the undoing of both buildings. You'll note that the 1st Tower hit was the 2nd one to fall. Why? Because the 2nd Tower was hit lower down, some 20 floors (?) below. Similar planes and impact, but the Tower hit lower down has that much more weight above the impact area. Once one Tower fell, it was only a matter of time before the other fell.


People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 6:53 PM

SASSALICIOUS


Quote:

5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?


He hasn't been caught because he's hiding. As far as I know, it's rumored that he's hiding out in the mountains that border Afghanistan and Pakistan. In these mountains there is a group of people and part of this group's code is to help people who ask for it. If a person asks to be hidden, no matter the reason, the group will hide the person. To go back on one's word in this society is a bad bad thing, which is why Osama hasn't been given up, assuming these people are hiding him.

Bear in mind, what I just said was a big simplification drawn from my memory of a National Geographic article from earlier this year.

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 8:15 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Sassalicious:
Quote:

5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been caught?


He hasn't been caught because he's hiding...



I don't buy any of the conspiracy theories about the attack, but this question deserves more attention. Especially in light of all the distractions that the Bush administration have indulged in. They've diverted resources and attention away from finding those responsible for the attacks and used American fear as an excuse for ancillary military adventures in the middle east. Their excuses for doing so have been shifting and lame. They need to be held accountable.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, April 10, 2006 5:13 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?


I'm not an engineer, but I did watch the documentary on how this happened. From what IO understand the steel didn't melt, it was weakened by the heat (along with the damage or destruction of some of the load bearing supports) and then the weight of the upper floors just pancaked down causing the whole thing to just fall like a house of cards.
Quote:


2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?


My understanding was that this collapse was not as efficient. For one thing it took several hours longer after the damage was done.
Quote:


3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?


If this is true, then its what we in the legal community call "just one of those things". After the plane blew up over Scotland, they found bits of this and pieces of that intact, but it really doesn't mean anything (except as a curiosity).
Quote:


4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?


The only one I know of is the guy on trial in Washington. He is alive because he was arrested before 9/11 (but I doubt he's going to survive it any more then his fellows did).
Quote:


5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?


Deep hole and he's a coward. Imagine, every time he sees the sun or breathes a breath of fresh air he knows that we are coming. Be it in minutes or hours, he can't relax because if he looks up into that bright beautiful sky for more then a moment or so, he's dead or captured. He can run, but he cannot run forever. And the truly great thing is if he does manage to stay alive...eventually he'll die and then he's really gonna pay.
Quote:


6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?


Ah yes, my favorite passage in the Koran is the one where the Prophet sets his watch.

Quote:


So I can get back to my life of playing video games, ignoring the daily news, and eating McDonalds. Or not.


I just got an XBox 360, so I'm with you...well, not the McDonalds, I'm eating healthy these days. That means a daily vitamin with my hamburgers, hotdogs, and pizza.

H

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Monday, April 10, 2006 5:51 AM

CARTOON


Good answer to #1, Fletch. I saw that documentary, too, and you explained it better than I could've.

Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?



Yes, as Fletch said, the debris severely damaged the structural integrity of #7. I don't know if you'd been there beforehand, to be familiar with the area (I went there everytime I went into town), but #7 was directly across Vesey Street from the north tower.

You might ask, why then didn't the World Financial Centers directly across West Street from the north tower also collapse from damage incured by falling debris?

Well, I'm not an engineer, but I can say that Vesey Street is much narrower than West Street -- I think Vesey is 2 lanes, and West was at least 4 (possibly 6) with a median divider down by the WTC. Even so, the Winter Garden was nearly completely destroyed, and the west face of one of the World Financial Center buildings was damaged.

Across Liberty Street from the South tower was a parking lot, on the corner of Liberty & West (I used to park there after the first bombing, when the sublevel garage of the WTC was closed to the public). Next to the parking lot was a tall office building (I don't know the name of it), whose entire northern face was ripped completely off. When I was last there, it still hadn't been repaired, and was covered by a huge black canvas. (If anyone here lives near there, they can verify if this is still the case or not.)

Having often stood on the roof of the south tower, I can tell you -- you can't imagine how high those buildings were if you'd never been on them. Even though the observation deck had a fence and was back about 12 feet from the edge of the building, you could look east (across Church Street) and probably spit onto the 60-story roofs of the adjacent skyscrapers, even though they were easily several hundred yards away.

Don't forget -- the Marriott, #4, #5, & #6 were also destroyed by the falling debris. Although, the Marriott was (unfortunately) sandwiched right between the north and south towers, #6 was directly beneath the northern face of the north tower, and #4 directly beneath the western face of the south tower. #5 was diagonal to the two towers, over on the corner of Church & Vesey, and even that was crushed. (I saw it a few weeks after the towers fell, and it was cut in two like a loaf of bread.)

Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?


A lot of debris from the plane probably went flying at the moment of impact. Don't forget, one of the engines from the plane which hit the south tower wound up on the street several blocks north of the impact.

P.S. Your -- uh -- interesting graphic looks familiar. I once posted something in another forum related to Star Wars Jedi Academy, and recall seeing it there. Was that you?

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Monday, April 10, 2006 8:20 AM

RIGHTEOUS9


I'll chime in.

Yeah, I saw some of loose change, and am not at all convinced by it that the planes couldn't have taken the towers down by themselves.

What happened to the Pentagon is a lot more fishy, if the information presented in the documentary is correct. Were there no eyewitnesses who saw a plane going into it? Or did the documentary just ignore them? And if no plane went into it, what happened to that particular liner and its passengers? So far, not convinced there was no plane.

I am ready to suscpect the government of its own involvement. That doesn't mean I think they had to go as far as to plan it. Just to look the other way when evidence was staring them in the face.


For starters, PNAC, Project for New American Century basically had a study about getting back into Iraq and turning it into a democracy, but the study suggested such a road would be long and hard, unless we had a catalyzing pearl harbor like event to get the American people behind the change.

Then there's corroboration that the very day that Bush and Cheney were declared the winners of the election, Cheney was calling up the former administration and demanding all information it had on Iraq.

Then there's the long history we have with Bin-Laden as an American Operative.

Then there's the absolutely absurd things the administration said, like "nobody could have guessed that they would have used planes..." etc. when documents like the ones that said "Bin Laden determined to attack U.S." specifically suggested that planes might be the very weapon of choice. There's the treating of the information as an "historic document."????

There are also statements from cia officials that Rumsfeld told them he didn't want to hear any more about Bin Laden.

There's Bush's botched job of actually getting Bin Laden in Tora Bora, as Kerry was saying during the campaign. Yeah, it did turn out that he was in Tora Bora when Bush outsourced our efforts to capture him...but then, as he said himself, "I don't think too much about him...he's been marginalized."

Then there's the ridiculous leap from Bin Laden to Iraq which we all know by now, or I hope we all know, was a secular nation that considered Al Quiada too dangerous to do business with. Remember also, we were lied to about the weapons of mass destruction, in order to get us in there.

then there's the political uses of the threat warnings that seemed to always affect things like Democratic National Conventions, or overlay inconvenient news about republicans.(this is the sense I was getting as they were happening...I could probably make a real case for it, but it would be a long effort..if you wish to ignore it as speculative, that's fair)

And how about that Bin Laden tape surfacing right before the 2004 election? Wow, what timing...you'd think the man was Campaigning for Bush. He may be a psycho, but he's not stupid. Who doesn't think this helped Bush get votes, and why would Bin Laden prefer Bush?







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Monday, April 10, 2006 11:07 AM

MYSTRE


Some more questions.

Who benefited the most from the attacks? Seems pretty obvious it wasn't some people living in caves in Afghanistan.

How were people able to use their cell phones from a high jacked plane in the air? I can answer this one as I had the chance to try it recently...You can't, no reception or connection to cell towers at all from high in the air.

I'm currently of the mind set that there was no way a group of underprivileged people from a third world country could in anyway shape or form pull off the kind of planning this kind of event would take. Who do you think could have done it?

Sorry to say it, but your beloved leaders has pulled a fast one on you...again...


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Monday, April 10, 2006 12:47 PM

CITIZEN


Well you *CAN* get a mobile signal on a plane. I have on a trip to Germany when I forgot to turn my phone off. Many planes also have phones on board.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 12:58 PM

MYSTRE


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Well you *CAN* get a mobile signal on a plane. I have on a trip to Germany when I forgot to turn my phone off. Many planes also have phones on board.



They do have phones on board, but the news reports stated people making calls on their cells...which is what I was testing.


It might be different with an international phone.

I tried on a domestic flight flying out of NYC heading west (over PA - wanted my test to be close to reality) on my phone (Verizon) my neighbor (TMoble) and the guy sitting behind me (Sprint). None were able to make a connection at all...

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Monday, April 10, 2006 1:02 PM

CITIZEN


I thought they were using phones on board, at least as well as mobiles. Though we don't know if the plane wasn't flying lower than normal...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 1:47 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:

1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?




All grills melt and collapse due to metal fatigue
www.ez-grill.com

As everyone knows, charcoal grills melt everytime you try to cook food, gas stoves melt everytime you boil tea, and fireplaces burn down every house within one hour of firing up, and that's we we are all still living in caves in the Stone Age. Or, that alleged temp for jet fuel only applies when it's compressed inside a jet engine, like a welding torch uses compressed oxygen or it can't melt lead solder (like a butane cigarette lighter lacks compressed oxygen so it don't melt itself and explode). Most of the jet fuel was burned up outside the WTCs in the first 10 seconds. The official 9/11 Whitewash Commission was run by Tom Kean who was in business with the Bin Ladens. The official cause of the WTC collpase was "burning paper", according to PBS TV. HA! The actual temp of the jet fuel burning in open flame was under 1,000 degress F. WTC steel was still MOLTEN for days and weeks after 9/11, proving that explosive demolitions bombed the WTC, which is the only way to MELT solid steel. The jets were preloaded with military shape-charge explosives in the nose and leading edge of the wings, to melt the steel exterior of WTC, or else the alluminum jets would just bounce off the WTC without penetrating. You can see the explosives fire BEFORE each jet contacted the WTC, as proven in ALL videotapes on 9/11.


www.illuminati-news.com/911-magick-trick.htm

Quote:

"I designed it for a 707 to hit it," Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer said. The Boeing 707 has a fuel capacity of more than 23,000 gallons, comparable to the 767's 23,980-gallon fuel capacity. Another architect of the WTC, Aaron Swirski, lives in Israel and spoke to Jerusalem Post Radio after the attack: "It was designed around that eventuality to survive this kind of attack," he said. Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the World Trade Center's construction manager, watched in confusion as the towers came down. "It was over-designed to withstand almost anything including hurricanes, high winds, bombings and an airplane hitting it," he said. In the basements of the collapsed towers, where the 47 central support columns connected with the bedrock, hot spots of "literally molten steel" were discovered more than a month after the collapse. Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed. Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, New York, told AFP that he saw pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center. Tully was contracted on September 11 to remove the debris from the site. Tully called Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland, for consultation about removing the debris. CDI calls itself "the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures." Loizeaux, who cleaned up the bombed Federal Building in Oklahoma City, arrived on the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the entire operation. AFP asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site. "Yes," he said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon. Construction steel has an extremely high melting point of about 2,800° Fahrenheit (1535° Celsius). Loizeaux told AFP that the steel-melting fires were fueled by "paper, carpet and other combustibles. Five days after the collapse, on September 16, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) used an Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) to locate and measure the site's hot spots. Dozens of hot spots were mapped, the hottest being in the east corner of the South Tower where a temperature of 1377° F (747° C) was recorded. This is, however, less than half as hot at the molten steel in the basement. The foundations of the twin towers were 70 feet deep. At that level, 47 huge box columns, connected to the bedrock, supported the entire gravity load of the structures. The steel walls of these lower box columns were 4 inches thick. Videos of the North Tower collapse show its communication mast falling first, indicating that the central support columns must have failed at the very beginning of the collapse. Loizeaux told AFP, "Everything went simultaneously."
Loizeaux said, "If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure."
-Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press, "Seismic Evidence Points to Underground Explosions Causing WTC Collapse," August 28, 2002
www.serendipity.li/wot/bollyn2.htm
www.americanfreepress.net

"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information. It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete information and even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests."
—US Solicitor-General Theodore "Ted" Olson, in Jennifer K. Harbury vs. United States, at the US Supreme Court, on 17 March 2002 (his estranged 3rd wife wife Barabara Olson, attoney at law and CNN talkinghead disappeared on September 11, 2001, allegedly on American Airlines Flight 77 that never hit the Pentagon)



Quote:

2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?

WTC 7 CIA HQ was bombed on 9/11/2001 in a controlled demolition with 100s of preinstalled explosives per orders of Bush White House and Mafia Mayor Giuliani



WTC7 (CIA HQ) was bombed by "controlled demolitions", approved by Mobbed-up cross-dressing mayor Sir Rudy Giuliani Knight of the BRITISH Empire, as confessed by AUSTRALIAN Jew Larry Silverstein, renter of entire WTC govt complex. Silverstein profited by over $7-billion insurance claim. Controlled Demolition Incorporated, who bombed 7,000 govt buildings, was paid $7-billion govt contract to "demolish" WTC "after" 9/11. CDI is from Knoxville, TN, home of Skull & Bones homosexual mayor Victor "Victoria" Ashe, now ambassador Ashe, alleged to by Jr Bush's gay lover "Bulldog" (same name as White House homohooker "Jeff GAnnon" aka kidnapped Johnny Gosch).


This is what explosives look like during controlled demolitions. WTC fell in 10 seconds, which is same time as freefall speed of gravity
www.controlled-demolition.com

Quote:

"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is PULL IT.' And they made that decision to PULL and we watched the building collapse."
-Larry Silverstein, PBS TV, "America Rebuilds"
www.pbs.org/americarebuilds

PULL.
to tear down, demolish, or overthrow.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

"The flashlight led us into Borders bookstore, up an escalator, and out to Church Street. The explosions were going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. I was afraid to go down Church Street towards Broadway, but I had to do it. I ended up on Vesey Street. There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know which way to run."
-Teresa Veliz, WTC Survivor
www.reopen911.org/Tarpley_ch_6.pdf

"Floor by floor it started popping out."
"It was if they had detonators and they planned to take down a building."
-NY Fire Dept Survivors, Nadet Bros video

"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building."
-Captain Karin Deshore E.M.S., WTC Survivor

"It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down."
-Daniel Rivera, Paramedic E.M.S., WTC Survivor

"And then all of a sudden it started like... it sounded like gunfire... you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and then all of a sudden three big explosions."
-WTC Survivor

"The National Law Enforcement and Security Institute will be holding a conference called 'Homeland Security: America's Leadership Challenge' in Chicago on 6 September 2002. The star speaker is Rudolph Giuliani. One of the other speakers is C I A man John Fulton. On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team at the C I A were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building.' NLSI website confesses: 'America's Mayor' Rudy Giuliani will lead the day with his presentation 'Leadership in Difficult Times'. John Fulton's 25 years in the intelligence community has contributed to his recognition as an expert in risk and threat response analysis, scenario gaming, and strategic planning. He is on staff for the Central Intelligence Agency, currently serving as Chief of the Strategic War Gaming Division of the National Reconnaissance Office, and as a member of U S Joint Forces Command's Project Alpha - a prestigious "think tank" for advanced concepts related to such issues as homeland security. He formerly served as the mission director for our nation's satellite imagery program as well as replacing Army Astronaut Same Gemar as the Director of the National Security Space Master Plan for the U S Department of Defense and Intelligence Space Communities under the auspices of the Deputy UnderSecretary of Defense (Space). His counter-terrorism and homeland security responsibilities include advising the Director Central Intelligence Staff for Homeland Security, the U.S. Marshall's Office, and collaboration with the National Security Council. In the private sector Fulton has developed a number of patents related to positioning, 'smart GP S' applications, communications, and audio video technology. He oversees the development of public and personal safety applications of these capabilities through Safe star projects, and contributes to the strategic planning and conceptual design of the SafeSTAR Homeland Security Command Center."
-National Law Enforcement and Security Institute

"Mayor Giuliani - a former federal prosecutor who won notice for 'pursuing' the Mafia - had relatives linked to organized crime, including a mobbed up cousin who was gunned down by F B I agents in 1977. Lewis D'Avanzo, a son of the mayor's uncle and a guest at Giuliani's first wedding in 1968, was a 'ruthless and widely feared mob associate' who headed a massive stolen car ring, according to FBI documents and interviews detailed in Rudy, An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, by Village Voice senior editor Wayne Barrett. The book sketches a largely unflattering portrait of the clan, depicting his father, Harold, as a hothead and the 'muscle' behind a brother in law's loan sharking operation, run out of a Brooklyn bar. Along with cracking heads, it says the mayor's father served time in state prison for a stickup, rarely held an on the books job and once was a gunman in a mob shootout in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. Giuliani's cousin Lewis D'Avanzo was known as 'Steve the Blond' and listed as armed and dangerous in FBI bulletins. His criminal record included a 10 year federal sentence for the armed hijacking of a truck loaded with $240,000 worth of mercury. He was suspected of taking part in several murders. D'Avanzo was gunned down by the FBI in October 1977, when he tried to run down an agent after being stopped on a warrant that accused him and two associates of transporting 100 stolen luxury cars. A friend of D'Avanzo describes a 1962 shootout pitting a local mobster against the mayor's father and Leo D'Avanzo, Lewis D'Avanzo's father. The book says Leo was later sanctioned by mob bosses for shooting at a Mafia member. Leo D'Avanzo, who was known in family circles as a black sheep, ran loansharking and gambling operations out of a Brooklyn bar where Giuliani's father worked as a bartender. In his role as debt collector, his father 'broke legs, smashed kneecaps, crunched noses.' Joan Ellen D'Avanzo, a cousin who at one time lived with Giuliani when he was a youngster, became a drug addict who was beaten to death in 1973 at age 34. Several family members said she was murdered."
-Michael R. Blood, New York Daily News, "Rudy's Kin Tied to Mob", July 6, 2000

"Did the U.S. government really pay the Mafia protection money during World War II? At the beginning of WWII, America wasn't yet fighting, but her support for the Allies was clear. The 1941 Lend-Lease Act enabled FDR to ship weapons and essential materials to England. But were U.S. harbors being watched? In 1942, fire broke out on The Normandie, a luxury liner turned troop carrier. Was it Nazi sabotage? Decades later, Lucky Luciano claimed the Mafia had burnt The Normandie, and in the aftermath struck a protection deal with the government to prevent further 'Nazi sabotage'. An anonymous interviewee supports Lucky Luciano's story that the mob torched the Normandie. An archival interview with J. Edgar Hoover offers one take on this extraordinary assertion. Modern scholars examine the evidence of wartime ties between the Mob and the government. Officially, the cause was negligence. Unofficially, the authorities suspected it was the act of Nazi saboteurs. But when the ocean liner Normandie - recently converted to a troop carrier - caught fire in New York Harbor, the government had to take steps to prevent such setbacks in the future. For decades, rumors have persisted that one of the steps they took was to 'hire' the Mafia to make sure no additional 'accidents' happened. Of course, that looks suspiciously like a famously successful Mafia business model, and there are some who believe that the Normandie fire was actually a shakedown. In fact, Lucky Luciano is said to have boasted as much. Could this really be true? Did the government enlist help from the least likely of sources - and under duress - from an underground enemy? with testimony from military scholars, Mafia experts and an intriguing anonymous eyewitness to the Normandie fire, DEAD MEN'S SECRETS explores one of the most intriguing myths of America during WWII."
—HistoryChannel.com, "Dead Men's Secrets: America and the Mob: Wartime Friends", Item Number: AAE-43942



Quote:

3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?


Because Black Boxes and aircraft should be made out of paper, then they would be indestructable. Or it was planted as fake evidence to falsely blame patsies that were not on any passenger lists, nor videotaped boarding any airliner, trained at US military bases, and are still alive giving TV interviews and flying Saudi airliners. Actually, the black boxes survived, but are classified Top Secret because they prove there were no hijackers nor passengers on the robot airliners, just like Operation NORTHWOODS.

Quote:

4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?


Because there weren't any hijackers on the empty robot airliners.

Quote:

"Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world."
—BBC, "Hijack 'suspects' alive and well," 23 September, 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

"Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri - Both ALIVE, Abdul Aziz al Omari - ALIVE, Fayez Banihammad, Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri - ALIVE, Saeed al Ghamdi - ALIVE, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami - ALIVE, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi - ALIVE. Mohamed Atta - ALIVE according to his father. In September 2002, FBI Director Robert Mueller told CNN twice that there is 'no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers.' How can the 9/11 Commission be taken seriously when they refer to 9/11 'hijackers' who are still alive?"
—WhatReallyHappened.com, "At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive"
www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html



Quote:

5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?


He's dead, Jim. Died of kidney failure in a US military hospital, holding hands with his CIA boss, back in Dec 2001. USAma Bin Laden was admitted to a US military hospital in Dubai (those nice folks who bought 21 US ports in 2006) for dialysis, while meeting with the CIA chief for that region, according to mailine news reports in summer 2001. USAma was a CIA agents for decades, including while USA invaded Yugoslavia in 1993. USAma was a Wahabi JEW, as are the Saudi royals and Iraqi Kurds. While neoCON Jews perped the 9/11 massacres, USAma did NOT. Islamic law requires burial in 24 hours, just like Jewish law, so USAma can't be kept on ice like Bush's Abu Ghraib torture genocide victims.

Quote:

"I don't care where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care."
-George Bush Jr, business partner of Salem Bin Laden, USAma's brother, after rescuing 25 members of Bin Laden family living in USA on 9/11/2001, to prevent FBI interrogation, and escorting them out of USA while all other US flights were cancelled under martial law

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/12/23/bin-laden-niece-ins
ide.JPG

Sleazy prostitute, er, sleazy lawyer Waah Dufour Bin Laden, a US citizen - Cathy O'Brien testified that she eyewitnessed pedophile Saudi royals gangrape their own daughters, just like the pedophile Bushes gangrape other people's daughters. Gangsters routinely send their kids to law school to learn advanced methods of stealing other people's money
www.trance-formation.com

"I want to be accepted here, but I feel that everybody's judging me and rejecting me," said the California-born Dufour, a law graduate who lives in New York. "Come on, where's the American spirit? Accept me. I want to be embraced, because my values are like yours. And I'm here. I'm not hiding." Dufour, who adopted her mother's maiden name after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks that have been blamed on bin Laden, appears in several provocative photos in the magazine. Yeslam and Osama are among 54 children of the late Saudi construction magnate Mohammed bin Laden and his 22 wives. The extended family includes several hundred people.
www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-12-23-bin-laden-niece_x.htm?POE=LIFI
SVA



Wetback Waah Dufour Bin Laden launders her CIA money in her Swiss bank
www.wizbangblog.com

"The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations."
—Usama bin Laden, CNN News, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/



Quote:

6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?



Fake USAma vs real USAma
http://s8.invisionfree.com/AlQuranAndSunnah

Because it's not USAma, as proven by published mainline news reports. USAma DENIED he had anything to do with 9/11, in multiple interviews as broadcast on CNN. On 9/11/2001, Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the BRITISH Empire was eating breakfast with his business partner Shafig Bin Laden, brother to USAma, in Washington DC, with Pentagon contractor Carlye Group, owned by the German Queen of England and German King of England ("Prince" Phillip), who is now the King of USA according to NAFTA, which merged USA with Canada, which is part of the 55-nation British Commonwealth and British Empire that invented Communism. George Bush Jr's first business partner was Salem Bin Laden, brother of USAma, in ArBUSTo Oil in Houston TX. Bush crime family has been in business with Bin Laden crime family since their 1947 Trust contract. British MI6 stopped arrest of USAma in summer 2001, because USAma works for MI6, just like traitors at CIA and White House work for MI6 and British Empire.


JFK Sr was assassinated in front of Dallas Police Station, FBI HQ and CIA HQ, then the patsy was shot inside that same Dallas Police Dept, then the Jewish Mobster strip club owner who shot the patsy died of "cancer" inside that same jail after winning a new trial. USAma shot JFK according to the 9/11 Commission For Aiding And Abetting The Terrorists In The White House
www.originaldo.com/swapshots/indexthumbs.html

Quote:

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Operation Northwoods - James Banford from ABC News reported on Pentagon's Operation Northwoods plot to perp domestic terrorism in USA to blame a foreign nation and "justify" invasion, declassified in 2000
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php
www.BodyOfSecrets.com

"Towers that fell 'like a controlled demolition'. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, and crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. In the Pentagon, a top secret team drew up a plan to simultaneously send up two airliners painted and numbered exactly the same, one from a civil airport in America, the other from a secret military airbase nearby. The one from the airport would have military personnel on board who had checked in as ordinary passengers under false names. The one from the airbase would be an empty drone, a remote-controlled unmanned aircraft. Somewhere along their joint flight paths, the passenger-carrying plane would drop below radar height, and disappear, landing back at the airbase and unloading its occupants in secret. Meanwhile, the drone would have taken up the other plane's designated course. High over the island of Cuba, it would be exploded in mid-air after broadcasting an international distress call that it was under attack from enemy fighters. The world would be told that a plane load of blameless American holidaymakers had been deliberately shot down by Fidel Castro's Communists - and that the US had no choice but to declare war and topple his regime. This Top Secret 'agent provocateur' plan - code named Operation Northwoods and revealed in official archives - dates from 1962 when the Cold War was at its height and was declassified in 2000."
-Tony Rennell, London Daily Mail, "9/11 ON TRIAL -Towers that fell 'like a controlled demolition'. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, And crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. A new book raises bizarre yet deeply unsettling questions about the world's worst terror atrocity…" August 6, 2005
www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm

"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of terrorism within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"We could blow up a drone (unmannded) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. The presense of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The US could follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Use of MIG-type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type palnes would be useful. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce that fact. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. It is possible to create an incident which would demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civilian airliner from the United States. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rondevous. From the rondevous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly to an auxiliary airfield at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. Meanwhile the drone aircraft will continue to fly the filed flight plan. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio stations to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident. It is possible to create an incident that will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly Tail-end Charlie. While near the Cuban island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. This pilot would then fly at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who performed the mission under an alias would resume his proper identity. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared. A submarine or small craft would distribute F-101 parts, parachute, etc. The pilots retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found."
—Jewish Zionist General L.L. Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara - Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962 (declassifed 2000)
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Jewish Fox TV's Lone Gunmen pilot episode - Broadcast in March 2001, re General LL Limnitzer's Operation Northwoods plot by Pentagon, CIA and Jewish Ike/LBJ White House to hijack a US airliner by remote control and crash it into the Jewish Rockefeller's World Trade Center, declassified in 2000
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6758.php

"I don't trust government. And neither should our citizens."
—US Senator Larry Craig, United States Senate, Committee on the Judiciary, "DOJ Oversight: Terrorism and Other Topics", testimony by US Attorney General John Ashcroft re President George Bush Jr.'s Executive Orders to "legalize torture" of US citizens and refusal to release that memo (felony Contempt of Congress), CSPAN2, June 8, 2004

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
-George Bush Jr, CNN

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be."
—President Thomas Jefferson

"The President, Vice-President, and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
—Constitution of the United States

"The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper!"
-George Bush Jr


USAma didn't pass the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act without allowing Congress to read it that classified ALL crime as terrorism and ALL US citizens as terrorists and killed the US Constitution. USAma didn't order NORAD to stand down on 9/11. USAma didn't PULL WTC with 1,000s of preinstalled explosives. USAma didn't run security for WTC and cut power to install explosives but Marvin Bush did. USAma didn't run wargames of hijacking US airliners and crashing them into WTC on 9/11 but Dick Cheney and CIA did. USAma didn't write Operation NORTHWOODS but Pentagon and CIA did. USAma didn't declare war on Afghanistan and Iraq but Jr Bush did BEFORE 9/11. USAma didn't say he wanted to be dictator of USA but Jr Bush did...

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Bush Sued by RICO Act - 9/11 victims sue Bush Gang under RICO Act for perping domestic terrorism and mass murder on 9/11/2001. Stanley Hilton vs traitorous media whores Shaun Hannity and Alan Colmes for Jewish Australian porno king pimp daddy Rupert Murdock on Faux News. http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php



White House terrorists use tunnels under Reichstag, er, Congress to move controlled demolition explosives into place, just like 9/11/2001:

Quote:

"The United States Capitol Police has made the entire tunnel system off limits to their staff because of the safety conditions as well as the lack of communication because phones and radios do not work in the tunnels. This should be a real concern to the Congress and Senate as all buildings on the complex can be entered through the steam tunnels. Realize that it is on a regular basis that we see people in the tunnels that we don't know why they are down there."
-United States Capitol Police, April 2006
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/207



9/11: BUSH DID IT, FOR HIS BOSS THE KING OF ENGLAND, WHO IS BUSH'S 3RD COUSIN - ARREST THE BUSH GANG NOW!!! ARREST THE KING & QUEEN OF ENGLAND NOW!!! IF IT TAKES A WAR, SO BE IT. PULL OUT OF IRAQ NOW! DECLARE WAR ON MEXICO NOW! ARREST 30-MILLION CRIMINAL MEXICAN TERRORISTS NOW! ARREST EVERY PERSON WHO VOTED FOR BUSH AS A TERRORIST UNDER U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. ACT AND PUT THEM IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS OR RAPE AND TORTURE THEM TO DEATH BY NATURAL CAUSES IN GITMO! JUST DO IT NOW! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE...


Wash: Dammit! I don't need a Back Spaceship Pilot! That's it! Fine! You wanna fly? Fuckin fly! I'll be in my bunk.
-Serenity The Big Damn DVD

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

Pirate News TV - 9/11 Video Archive:
www.piratenews.org/video-archive.html
www.september911surprise.com

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Monday, April 10, 2006 3:57 PM

SERGEANTX


Time Cube!!!!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, April 10, 2006 4:08 PM

GREENFAERIE


As reasonable and logical as your answers were, PIRATENEWS, you lost me at the end there with your ranting. Still, thanks for the edification. Something is definitely wrong here in the USA.


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Monday, April 10, 2006 4:15 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."
-Roy Batty, Bladerunner

TIME FOR AMERICA TO DIE... NOT ENUFF PATRIOTS LEFT... TOO MANY TRAITORS.........

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Monday, April 10, 2006 4:23 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."
-Roy Batty, Bladerunner



damn... one of my all time favorite movie quotes. PN, you'd get a lot more traction if you tried sounding sane in your posts.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, April 10, 2006 4:30 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:




Nice wings.


Quote:

Kevin Smith: Well, you don't have to have them come out and say it. Look at their body of works. Look what they're doing. What did Joss Whedon's Serenity and Firefly series tell you? What are they trying to tell you through their craft?

Alex Jones: What does V For Vendetta say?

Kevin Smith: Even better. I just saw it last week. I left V For Vendetta walking on a cloud. I say, we're gonna win!

Alex Jones: Let me tell ya what's happening. I can't get into details. But major Hollywood people are being pressured Big Time to SHUT UP. If I could only tell you folks. I then confirmed from a prominent 9/11 leader, that one of the biggest musicians in the world, one of the most loved, is very close to going public. It's so close. And they're watching to see what happens with Charlie Sheen, who hit the barbed wire for us. But again, CNN wouldn't have Ed Asner on last night. They were gonna have him, then they cancelled him. They cancelled because they cannot deal with it.

-Infowars Radio, March 29, 2006
www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/asner_on_cnn.htm
www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=19100




www.hfmgroup.com/buy/gunpowderplot.html

Note that exactly 400 years ago, the Bush family's ancestor, Constable Thomas Percy, was gunned down by summary execution, for resisting arrest for the Gunpowder Plot to bomb British Parliament. V For Vendetta glorifies this terrorist bombing by the Bush crime family, probably as mind control for Bush Gang bombing US Reichstag, er, Congress, to blame Iran and "justify" World War 3 - or WW4 depending on whether you count the Cold War as #3.
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/174
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com



NOTE THAT IN THE WAR OF 1812, THE BRITISH EMPIRE BURNED WASHINGTON DC, THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE CAPITOL BUILDING, AND ATTACKED NEW ORLEANS...

APRIL 19TH WAS THE DAY THAT USA ATTACKED THE BRITISH EMPIRE AND STARTED THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR. IT'S ALSO THE DAY THE JEWISH PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON-BLYTHE III (ROCKEFELLER) MASSACRED THE CHRISTIANS AT WACO/CRAWFORD, AND THE DAY CLINTON-BLYTHE (ROCKEFELLER) BOMBED THE OK CITY FED BLDG TO BLAME US SOLDIERS AND IRAQIS...


George Bush ancestor Thomas Percy's head on a stick for public entertainment today in British Parliament
www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_publications_and_archives/parliamentar
y_archives/gunpowder_plot_400_pow.cfm


ARREST BUSH NOW, GIVE HIM A FAIR TRIAL, FIND HIM GUILTY BY MARTIAL LAW TRIBUNAL, THEN CUT OFF HIS HEAD, AS REQUIRED BY JEWISH LAW, JUST LIKE HIS ANCESTOR THOMAS PERCY

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Monday, April 10, 2006 5:00 PM

ROLANDREYNOLDS


Quote:

damn... one of my all time favorite movie quotes. PN, you'd get a lot more traction if you tried sounding sane in your posts.


Agreed. But simply because the posts are antagonistic, empassioned, and inefficient in conveying their meaning, it doesn't mean the information isn't worth evaluating.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 5:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


It's hard to hold an entire conversation with movie quotes. Especially when discussing history and martial law in the Real World. Even when using Firefly quotes, tho that's the best so far.


Wash: That sounds like something out of science fiction.
Zoe: My other husband was in The Matrix, Dear.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 5:49 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by RolandReynolds:
Quote:

damn... one of my all time favorite movie quotes. PN, you'd get a lot more traction if you tried sounding sane in your posts.


Agreed. But simply because the posts are antagonistic, empassioned, and inefficient in conveying their meaning, it doesn't mean the information isn't worth evaluating.



For you maybe. I use the scrollbar.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, April 10, 2006 9:37 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by RolandReynolds:
Agreed. But simply because the posts are antagonistic, empassioned, and inefficient in conveying their meaning, it doesn't mean the information isn't worth evaluating.


We've all evaluated the possibility of British-Commie-Nazi-Jews being responsible for everything, and the possibility that the British Queen, head of the British-Commie-Nazi-Jew faction, actually flew all the 9/11 planes, and used her space-warping Commie-Jew powers to survive and escape unseen, we've just dismissed it because we're not schizophrenic.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 10:34 PM

ROLANDREYNOLDS


I'm talking about the facts that are embedded amidst the ranting and theorizing. Galileo's law of falling bodies, the eyewitness accounts, Larry Silverstein's statement, Lee Robertson's statement, the details of Operation Northwoods, the details of the Project for New American Century...

Bears consideration.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 11:04 PM

FREERADICAL42


The great thing about all those little tidbits of information is that they make insanity sound reasonable. My mother is an American Airlines flight attendant, she has been for 35 years, and she knew people on board those flights. They died, just like you or me would have. They're gone, they're not coming back, and only the terrorists who did this are to blame.

The conspiracy nuts won't believe me. They want to cover over the truth with their web of lies, delude themselves into thinking that the worldwide Al Qaida conspiracy doesn't exist by pushing the lies that it has given them.

See, the easy way to find out what's a lot of crap and what isn't is this: ask yourself if it answers who, what, where, when, WHY, and how. The conspiracy theories about 9/11 never answer the "why" off that list.

I remind you that fire is hot, planes are gigantic constructions that weigh tens of tons and fly hundreds of miles per hour.

I don't know if anyone has ever seen a watermelon get shot with a rifle, but the WTC was essentially a watermelon; rigid outside, soft empty inside; the sheer impact force of the plane would be sufficient to weaken the structure. Then, take into account that all of the internal materials were burning, and the lovely fact that the steel in those buildings got weaker the more you went up, and the shoddy construction (my father used to work in them and was desperately afraid that they would collapse of their own accord, and got transferred out as soon as he could). They were bad buildings that got hit with big planes. It's pretty clear why they collapsed. All of this stuff about the fire not being hot enough- hah! my uncle was an emergency worker pulling things out of the wreckage. You know those FDNY fire suits that are supposed to withstand 2500 degree fires? They were pulling them out of the wreckage filled with the ashes of firemen.

None of you people, out there, discussing this, can say "I was there and I saw it happen," but you can rant and rave and accuse the government. I *know* people who were there, who saw it happen, I'm not just quoting "Illuminati Mason Conspiracy News Service." There were no bombs. There was no "empty robot plane." Everyone was caught off guard. Everyone nearly died. And you can snuff it yourself if you dare to trample the graves of those killed that day.

"See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."

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Monday, April 10, 2006 11:05 PM

FLETCH2


You know there are only a limited number of standard firefly character avatars set up on this board. I have often wondered why PN happened to choose the only one that looks like a crazy person?

Just luck?

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:34 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by RolandReynolds:
I'm talking about the facts that are embedded amidst the ranting and theorizing. Galileo's law of falling bodies, the eyewitness accounts, Larry Silverstein's statement, Lee Robertson's statement, the details of Operation Northwoods, the details of the Project for New American Century...

Bears consideration.



This is the perfect encapsulation of what bugs me about his posts. The Project for a New American Century isn't a conspiracy. It's a very open, publicly transparent, neo-con think tank. I can't even get people to go read their website because people like PN keep ranting about them along side their Time Cube paranoia.

There are definitely things going on that we should be worried about. Turning into a three ring circus doesn't help.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:01 AM

CITIZEN


What, you mean stuff like this:
"The jets were preloaded with military shape-charge explosives in the nose and leading edge of the wings, to melt the steel exterior of WTC, or else the alluminum jets would just bounce off the WTC without penetrating."?

Yeah, your dead right, sounds plusable. Like when they fired that fighter jet into the concrete block on the rocket sled (I'm sure you've seen the video) the plane didn't explode and leave a crater in the wall, it just bounced off.

Oh no wait...

Bounce off, for fuck sake.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:21 AM

ROLANDREYNOLDS


Quote:

SERGEANTX: There are definitely things going on that we should be worried about. Turning into a three ring circus doesn't help


I agree, again. So let's not. This topic is highly emotional (which is more than understandable), and has been debated endlessly for nearly 5 years now. I, personally, have only been made aware of any of it in the past year or so, and this is the first time I've dedicated a lot of energy to researching things. I would like to, if possible (and I think it is, mostly) engage in some civil, mature, objective discussion about it with people who want to do the same. If you'll permit me (and us) to take this thread in that direction, I'd be very grateful.

Quote:

FREERADICAL42: And you can snuff it yourself if you dare to trample the graves of those killed that day.


From your post, it seems that you are a little closer to these events than most people we could probably meet. I don't want you to think for a second that I, or anyone else who engages in discussion does not have respect for the lives that were lost. Indeed, I think it's because there is a respect for those lives that the truth is important to us (I'll speak for myself, anyway). I don't believe there is anything disrespectful about asking questions. There's one I'd like to ask you, actually.

Quote:

My mother is an American Airlines flight attendant, she has been for 35 years, and she knew people on board those flights. They died, just like you or me would have.


This is a valuable source. Most people don't have such direct access like this. If I did, my first curiosity would probably be: Who? What were their names? Then I could check that info against various sources and try to form some kind of opinion.

I went searching for both sides of the argument tonight. The most prevalent source for debunking conspiracy myths, I found, came from a 9-page Popular Mechanics article on the subject. I found most people debating this on other forums frequently quoted Popular Mechanic's findings, which back up and add to many of the official explanations. After I read the whole thing, I went looking for a rebuttle to the Popular Mechanics article, and found the following:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm

It is well-written, it cites the Popular Mechanics article accurately and deals with it in full, and has a lot of sourcing and links which I spent quite a few hours following.

At this point, with what knowledge I do have, I simply cannot believe most of the official explanations. I am, however, always open to further explanations on anything. I have no real stake in the answers ultimately, I come to the conclusions that I do simply because if I came to any of the others that I see are available, I would feel like I was deliberately violating my own good sense. As I said before, however, more information is always cause for re-using this sense.

I am interested in discussing this, and I hope the thread can remain viable, avoiding a lot of emotional appeals and ranting that don't reall add anything to the debate. Thank you in advance to anyone who wants the same thing and chooses to take the time to contribute.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:28 AM

MYSTRE


Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

See, the easy way to find out what's a lot of crap and what isn't is this: ask yourself if it answers who, what, where, when, WHY, and how. The conspiracy theories about 9/11 never answer the "why" off that list.

I remind you that fire is hot, planes are gigantic constructions that weigh tens of tons and fly hundreds of miles per hour.

I don't know if anyone has ever seen a watermelon get shot with a rifle, but the WTC was essentially a watermelon; rigid outside, soft empty inside; the sheer impact force of the plane would be sufficient to weaken the structure. Then, take into account that all of the internal materials were burning, and the lovely fact that the steel in those buildings got weaker the more you went up, and the shoddy construction (my father used to work in them and was desperately afraid that they would collapse of their own accord, and got transferred out as soon as he could). They were bad buildings that got hit with big planes. It's pretty clear why they collapsed. All of this stuff about the fire not being hot enough- hah! my uncle was an emergency worker pulling things out of the wreckage. You know those FDNY fire suits that are supposed to withstand 2500 degree fires? They were pulling them out of the wreckage filled with the ashes of firemen.

None of you people, out there, discussing this, can say "I was there and I saw it happen," but you can rant and rave and accuse the government. I *know* people who were there, who saw it happen, I'm not just quoting "Illuminati Mason Conspiracy News Service." There were no bombs. There was no "empty robot plane." Everyone was caught off guard. Everyone nearly died. And you can snuff it yourself if you dare to trample the graves of those killed that day.



No one doubts that people died horribly or are disputing this as a tragedy. Being thinking and feeling people were are all shocked and suffering great lose for the innocent people who died.

As a part of the grieving process its natural to feel anger to those who have hurt us or the ones we love. I think the reason for this discussion is to find the correct focus of our anger. Most of us are coming to realize that bombing some farmers one the other side of the world isn’t really helping relieve our anger and sorrow so we are looking into the truth of the matter, hence this discussion…again…

As for why? Why is answered completely when you look at the Who benefited from this event.

Think about it yourselves without looking at any facts/rumors/crapontheinternet, who stood to gain from this great loss? Who/what did gain after the event? Then add the why question to your answers for the real proof…

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:34 AM

FREERADICAL42


Quote:

Originally posted by MystrE:


No one doubts that people died horribly or are disputing this as a tragedy. Being thinking and feeling people were are all shocked and suffering great lose for the innocent people who died.

As a part of the grieving process its natural to feel anger to those who have hurt us or the ones we love. I think the reason for this discussion is to find the correct focus of our anger. Most of us are coming to realize that bombing some farmers one the other side of the world isn’t really helping relieve our anger and sorrow so we are looking into the truth of the matter, hence this discussion…again…

As for why? Why is answered completely when you look at the Who benefited from this event.

Think about it yourselves without looking at any facts/rumors/crapontheinternet, who stood to gain from this great loss? Who/what did gain after the event? Then add the why question to your answers for the real proof…



Actually, the assertion that "empty robot planes" flew into buildings that had already been rigged with explosive charges suggests that in fact people who had been claimed to die, did not die. Those graves have real people attached to them too.

Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.

"See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:03 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.

Not true, if there wasn't something to gain from war, wars would never be fought.

Your confusing the fact that the people who gain from war are rarely, if ever, the people who fight die and sacrifice for it.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:19 AM

FLETCH2


Conspiracy theories a psychological defence mechanism in response to catastrophic events. If 9/11 happened as we are told it did, then a group of pissed off religious nuts half a world away reached out and killed 2000 people essentially on a whim. They did it for a list of "grievances" most Americans don't understand and in response to US actions that took place years ago.

If you accept that explanation, well the world is full of religious nut jobs of every stripe. The US does all kinds of things every day that might piss off someone. If all it takes is a few dozen pissed off nuts to get together and plan, well, some US policy somewhere in the world could right now be pissing off the new Bin Laden.

In short you can never be safe. That splendid feeling of isolation from the nasty things in the world goes away and it leaves people scared.

If on the other hand you believe the conspiracy, that some super powerful super secret cabal planned the whole thing for some massive James Bond style play for world domination that actually makes people feel safer. THEY probably wont attack the malls or schools of "Anytown USA" where you just happen to live. THEY probably wont need to do anything like a 9/11 again any time soon. Unlike a couple of dozen random religious nuts THEY have a plan and don't attack on a whim. In addition a conspiracy as big as THEY are would tend to be unique. You only have to worry about one of them.

In short the global conspiracy is actually pretty reassuring if you are scared. It is easier to live with a big evil plot than accept that today any organised group anywhere in the world with a few dozen members can kill Americans in impressive numbers.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:24 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

Actually, the assertion that "empty robot planes" flew into buildings that had already been rigged with explosive charges suggests that in fact people who had been claimed to die, did not die. Those graves have real people attached to them too.

Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.



Carlyle Group and Haliburton and General Electric/NBC News and Boeing et al profit from war. Pentagon contractor Carlyle Group is owned by Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the BRITISH Empire, his 3rd cousins the German King & Queen of England, British prime minister John Major, and their lifelong partners the Bin Ladens. The Iraq War is so profitable for the Bushes and their King & Queen, they were able to afford to buy Serenity, via their aquisition of their propaganda division at Universal Studios. The TRILLIONAIRE Bushes stole another $4.5-TRILLION from Pentagon CAFR pension funds since 9/11/2001, as confessed by Sir Donald Rumsfeld Jewish Knight of the BRITISH Empire, when grilled by Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney on CSPAN TV (video below).

The victims of 9/11 are "buried" in FRESH KILLS LANDFILL GARBAGE DUMP. The families are of course outraged, and suing the shit of the Mafia Gangsta Govt of New York City.
www.downtownexpress.com/de_146/cb1lashesoutatstate.html


Mobbed-ip mayor Sir Giuliani Knight of the BRITISH Empire honored 1,000's of dead victims by letting them rot with the rest of NYC's garbage at Fresh Kills Landfill
www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/fkl/ada/about/1_0.html

Quote:

9/11 Families File Suit Over Victims' Remains

Wednesday, August 17: A group of family members of those killed at the World Trade Center site on September 11, 2001, filed a federal lawsuit against the City of New York over its plans to leave the remains of the victims at Fresh Kills -- the former Staten Island dump where wreckage from the Ground Zero site, including human remains, was taken during cleanup efforts, the New York Times reported.

According to the lawsuit, the city promised that the remains would be separated from the rest of the debris and that a memorial park would be erected where the remains were finally buried. While the city made efforts to locate and identify any remaining body parts -- some of which were too small to even identify -- only 292 full bodies were recovered, the paper explained.

www.lowermanhattan.info/news/downtown_review/week_in_review_31703.asp



The nonexistant victims on United Airlines Robot Flight 93 were "honored" with a tombstone shaped like a giant BOXCUTTER in SHANKSville.

Sacred Boxcutter Memorial Tembstone
Satanic Occult Stonehenge Human Sacrifice Cult National Park
(photo now censored from National Park Service website - copy and paste link)
piratenews.org/ua93memorial3.jpg

www.flight93memorialproject.org
www.nps.gov/flni
www.nationalparks.org/flight93

Flight 93 (the 2nd one, not the one with people onboard that landed safely in Cleveland Ohio) was shot down by F-16 pilot Major Rick Gibney, by ignoring Dick Cheney's treasonous Stand Down order. Gibney was rewarded by the Governor of North Dakota on TV, by US Congress in the Congressional Record, and promoted to Lt Col in ND Air National Guard.
www.geocities.com/united_airlines_flight_93

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Award for man who shot down Flight 93 on 9/11 - Secretary of Defense and chairman Joint Chiefs gets whipped by The Honorable Cynthia McKinney, National Anthem by Jimi Hendrix and North Dakota high school marching band
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6737.php
www.september911surprise.com

KILLER ROBOT AIRCRAFT WITH FAKE PASSENGER LISTS HIJACKED BY US GOVT REMOTE CONTROL:

Quote:

"We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. The presense of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The US could follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Use of MIG-type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type palnes would be useful. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce that fact. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. It is possible to create an incident which would demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civilian airliner from the United States. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rondevous. From the rondevous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly to an auxiliary airfield at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. Meanwhile the drone aircraft will continue to fly the filed flight plan. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio stations to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident. It is possible to create an incident that will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly Tail-end Charlie. While near the Cuban island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. This pilot would then fly at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who performed the mission under an alias would resume his proper identity. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared. A submarine or small craft would distribute F-101 parts, parachute, etc. The pilots retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found."
—Jewish Zionist General L.L. Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara - Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962 (declassifed 2000)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of terrorism within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
www.bodyofsecrets.com

"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information. It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete information and even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests."
—US Solicitor-General Theodore "Ted" Olson, in Jennifer K. Harbury vs. United States, at the US Supreme Court, on 17 March 2002 (his estranged 3rd wife Barabara Olson, attoney at law and CNN talkinghead disappeared on September 11, 2001, allegedly on American Airlines Flight 77 that never hit the Pentagon; he also argued Bush II vs. Gore III at US Supreme Court during Selection 2000 when 2.5-million registered votes disappeared - Bush Jr. allegedly won the selection by 500 votes. Harbury argued her case pro se, complaining that the US CIA tortured and murdered her husband, as part of Bush Sr White House narcoterrorist bombings during Iran-Contra, which the US government did not deny)



VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Operation Northwoods - James Banford from ABC News reported on Pentagon's Northwoods plot to perp domestic terrorism in USA to blame a foreign nation and "justify" invasion, declassified in 2000, reported by ABC News on May 1, 2001
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php


Select to view spoiler:


Fed woman: It's the Pax. The G-Paxilon Hydroclorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works. The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work... they stopped breeding, talking, eating. There's 30-million people here, and they all just let themselves die.
(smashing down door)
(whine, wimper)
I have to be quick. About a tenth of a percent of... the population had the opposite reaction to the Pax. Their aggressor response increased beyond madness. They have become...
(smashing down door)
Well, they've killed most of us. And not just killed... they've done things.
Wash: Reavers. They made them.
Fed woman: I won't live to report this, but people have to know. We meant it for the best... to make people safer.
(Reavers growling)
God!
(Fed woman screaming)
(Reaver munching)
Reaver 1: Bill, does this taste like chicken to you?
Reaver 2: Ted, I think it takes like sheeple.

PAXIL HCL is an agent in a class of antidepressant medication known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). It is effective and generally well tolerated and has successfully helped people treat their depression, social anxiety disorder, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and panic disorder.
www.paxil.com

PAXIL HCL - SIDE EFFECTS:
Homicidal and suicidal tendencies. Allergic reaction, chills, face edema, malaise, neck pain; rare: Adrenergic syndrome, cellulitis, moniliasis, neck rigidity, pelvic pain, peritonitis, sepsis, ulcer. Hypertension, tachycardia; infrequent: Bradycardia, hematoma, hypotension, migraine, syncope; rare: Angina pectoris, arrhythmia nodal, atrial fibrillation, bundle branch block, cerebral ischemia, cerebrovascular accident, congestive heart failure, heart block, low cardiac output, myocardial infarct, myocardial ischemia, pallor, phlebitis, pulmonary embolus, supraventricular extrasystoles, thrombophlebitis, thrombosis, varicose vein, vascular headache, ventricular extrasystoles. Bruxism, colitis, dysphagia, eructation, gastritis, gastroenteritis, gingivitis, glossitis, increased salivation, liver function tests abnormal, rectal hemorrhage, ulcerative stomatitis; rare: Aphthous stomatitis, bloody diarrhea, bulimia, cardiospasm, cholelithiasis, duodenitis, enteritis, esophagitis, fecal impactions, fecal incontinence, gum hemorrhage, hematemesis, hepatitis, ileitis, ileus, intestinal obstruction, jaundice, melena, mouth ulceration, peptic ulcer, salivary gland enlargement, sialadenitis, stomach ulcer, stomatitis, tongue discoloration, tongue edema, tooth caries. Diabetes mellitus, goiter, hyperthyroidism, hypothyroidism, thyroiditis. Anemia, leukopenia, lymphadenopathy, purpura; rare: Abnormal erythrocytes, basophilia, bleeding time increased, eosinophilia, hypochromic anemia, iron deficiency anemia, leukocytosis, lymphedema, abnormal lymphocytes, lymphocytosis, microcytic anemia, monocytosis, normocytic anemia, thrombocythemia, thrombocytopenia. Edema, peripheral edema, SGOT increased, SGPT increased, thirst, weight loss; rare: Alkaline phosphatase increased, bilirubinemia, BUN increased, creatinine phosphokinase increased, dehydration, gamma globulins increased, gout, hypercalcemia, hypercholesteremia, hyperglycemia, hyperkalemia, hyperphosphatemia, hypocalcemia, hypoglycemia, hypokalemia, hyponatremia, ketosis, lactic dehydrogenase increased, non-protein nitrogen (NPN) increased. Arthritis, arthrosis; rare: Bursitis, myositis, osteoporosis, generalized spasm, tenosynovitis, tetany. Emotional lability, vertigo; infrequent: Abnormal thinking, alcohol abuse, ataxia, dystonia, dyskinesia, euphoria, hallucinations, hostility, hypertonia, hypesthesia, hypokinesia, incoordination, lack of emotion, libido increased, manic reaction, neurosis, paralysis, paranoid reaction; rare: Abnormal gait, akinesia, antisocial reaction, aphasia, choreoathetosis, circumoral paresthesias, convulsion, delirium, delusions, diplopia, drug dependence, dysarthria, extrapyramidal syndrome, fasciculations, grand mal convulsion, hyperalgesia, hysteria, manic-depressive reaction, meningitis, myelitis, neuralgia, neuropathy, nystagmus, peripheral neuritis, psychotic depression, psychosis, reflexes decreased, reflexes increased, stupor, torticollis, trismus, withdrawal syndrome. Asthma, bronchitis, dyspnea, epistaxis, hyperventilation, pneumonia, respiratory flu; rare: Emphysema, hemoptysis, hiccups, lung fibrosis, pulmonary edema, sputum increased, stridor, voice alteration. Acne, alopecia, contact dermatitis, dry skin, ecchymosis, eczema, herpes simplex, photosensitivity, urticaria; rare: Angioedema, erythema nodosum, erythema multiforme, exfoliative dermatitis, fungal dermatitis, furunculosis; herpes zoster, hirsutism, maculopapular rash, seborrhea, skin discoloration, skin hypertrophy, skin ulcer, sweating decreased, vesiculobullous rash. Abnormality of accommodation, conjunctivitis, ear pain, eye pain, keratoconjunctivitis, mydriasis, otitis media; rare: Amblyopia, anisocoria, blepharitis, cataract, conjunctival edema, corneal ulcer, deafness, exophthalmos, eye hemorrhage, glaucoma, hyperacusis, night blindness, otitis externa, parosmia, photophobia, ptosis, retinal hemorrhage, taste loss, visual field defect. Amenorrhea, breast pain, cystitis, dysuria, hematuria, menorrhagia, nocturia, polyuria, pyuria, urinary incontinence, urinary retention, urinary urgency, vaginitis; rare: Abortion, breast atrophy, breast enlargement, endometrial disorder, epididymitis, female lactation, fibrocystic breast, kidney calculus, kidney pain, leukorrhea, mastitis, metrorrhagia, nephritis, oliguria, salpingitis, urethritis, urinary casts, uterine spasm, urolith, vaginal hemorrhage, vaginal moniliasis. Voluntary reports of adverse events in patients taking PAXIL that have been received since market introduction and not listed above that may have no causal relationship with the drug include acute pancreatitis, elevated liver function tests (the most severe cases were deaths due to liver necrosis, and grossly elevated transaminases associated with severe liver dysfunction), Guillain-Barré syndrome, toxic epidermal necrolysis, priapism, syndrome of inappropriate ADH secretion, symptoms suggestive of prolactinemia and galactorrhea, neuroleptic malignant syndrome–like events; extrapyramidal symptoms which have included akathisia, bradykinesia, cogwheel rigidity, dystonia, hypertonia, oculogyric crisis which has been associated with concomitant use of pimozide; tremor and trismus; serotonin syndrome, associated in some cases with concomitant use of serotonergic drugs and with drugs which may have impaired metabolism of PAXIL (symptoms have included agitation, confusion, diaphoresis, hallucinations, hyperreflexia, myoclonus, shivering, tachycardia, and tremor), status epilepticus, acute renal failure, pulmonary hypertension, allergic alveolitis, anaphylaxis, eclampsia, laryngismus, optic neuritis, porphyria, ventricular fibrillation, ventricular tachycardia (including torsade de pointes), thrombocytopenia, hemolytic anemia, events related to impaired hematopoiesis (including aplastic anemia, pancytopenia, bone marrow aplasia, and agranulocytosis), and vasculitic syndromes (such as Henoch-Schönlein purpura). There has been a case report of an elevated phenytoin level after 4 weeks of PAXIL and phenytoin coadministration. There has been a case report of severe hypotension when PAXIL was added to chronic metoprolol treatment. PAXIL has not been systematically studied in animals or humans for its potential for abuse, tolerance or physical dependence. Based on the mechanism of action of paroxetine and the potential for serotonin syndrome, caution is advised when PAXIL is coadministered with other drugs or agents that may affect the serotonergic neurotransmitter systems, such as tryptophan, triptans, serotonin reuptake inhibitors, linezolid (an antibiotic which is a reversible non-selective MAOI), lithium, tramadol, or St. John's Wort (see Serotonin Syndrome). A multiple-dose study has shown that there is no pharmacokinetic interaction between PAXIL and lithium carbonate. However, since there is little clinical experience, the concurrent administration of paroxetine and lithium should be undertaken with caution.
www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/parox_ad.htm
www.quitpaxil.info



Lay off the flouride - it has the same active ingredient as antidepressants like Prozac, and was used by Nazi Germany, Commie Russia and NeoCommie USSA to keep their slaves from trying to escape genocide in the Death Camps. Then maybe you can THINK hard enough to see reality.

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

The basis of optimism is sheer terror.
-Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:57 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

My mother is an American Airlines flight attendant, she has been for 35 years, and she knew people on board those flights.

I don't know if anyone has ever seen a watermelon get shot with a rifle, but the WTC was essentially a watermelon; rigid outside, soft empty inside;



Now that has to be the STUPIDEST attempt ever made at "logic" and presentation of "evidence". The WTC is a watermelon... Dude, you need to check yourself into the nuthouse ASAP! Were you employed by Bush's 9/11 CONission? How many watermelons have 46 internal steel columns made of steel so thick that no US steel mill was capable of manufacturing them (or is THAT where the Jewish Rockefellers hid the explosives as the WTC was constructed?).


Those sure are some HOT fires, so hot it melted the invisible Boeing 757. Is that woman roasting hotdogs, or wondering why her campfire went out?
www.newsfocus.org/wtc_fire.htm
www.erichufschmid.net


46 massive steel columns were not damaged by aircraft nor fire, so only Thermite explosives could cut that steel into little bitty pieces and make it fall at the freefall speed of gravity in only 10 seconds via controlled demolition
www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm

I notive you provide zero evidence that your mommy worked for bankrupt American Airlines as a whore, er, "flight attendent". Pay stubs, photos, etc. You must lay a foundation before you are allowed to present evidence in court of public opinion. Read NORTHWOODS, to comprehend how fake names are given fake burials by US Gangsta Govt.

Col Donn de Grand-pre, in his books and commissions on 9/11, quotes airline pilots and fighter pilots presenting the evidence that the airline passengers and pilots were gassed shortly after takeoff, and they were unconscious when they crashed or were shot down over the ocean and in Pensylvania, but that the jets that hit targets were robots loaded with bombs.

The recent crash of a Greek Boeing 737, chased by F-16s ready to shoot it down during the Olympics, shows how easy it is to knock out an entire crew and passengers. When the jet crashed after running out of kerosine, all the passengers and crew were FROZEN SOLID, since its 40-degrees below zero at cruising altitude... The entire airline staff were arrested, and their offices raided, which is what should have happened to United Airlines and American Airlines and Boeing on 9/11/2001, instead of bribing them billions of taxdollars to shut up.

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:24 AM

MYSTRE


I wonder if there might be a middle ground of belief between all this Piratenews provided info and what Bush and friends are telling us? I would think my thoughts are currently there, whereever that is....


Piratenews, I noticed that you have called many people Jewish who aren’t Jews at all. Your argument would be a bit more believable without this extra false identifiers.





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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:43 AM

ROLANDREYNOLDS


They would also be more useful with less petty insults in caps and irrelevant (or at least relevant in ways too obscure) references to the Serenity movie. They fail to add anything substantial to the case you're trying to make PN.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:55 AM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

I notive you provide zero evidence that your mommy worked for bankrupt American Airlines as a whore, er, "flight attendent". Pay stubs, photos, etc. You must lay a foundation before you are allowed to present evidence in court of public opinion.


Well I'll be damned! PN calling for evidence? Somebody pinch me, I must be dreamin'!

I find it curious that while you seem to have a dire need to see evidence of his mother's occupation before you believe anything he says, you have no such qualms about your own posts. I haven't seen a single shred of solid evidence to back up just about anything you've said except for the words of people just as paranoid and nonsensical as you.

Oh, and what the fuck gives you the right to call his mother a whore because she is a flight attendant? I have family members that work as flight attendants. It's a job like any other: long hours, boredom, and dealing with the occaisional asshole passenger. So why dont you shut the fuck up about things that you know nothing about? Trust me it would make us all much happier.

P.S.


You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:57 AM

MYSTRE


Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:


Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.




Maybe you havn't heard about how much profits companies like Halliburton Co. and Exxon have made over the last 5 years. You can look it up yourself, but you will find record earnings in the billions of dollars. Also, you should allready know who was last CEO of Halliburton Co. before his current job as vice presendent of the USA, who personal net worth has gone up billions of dollars since he got his current gig.

He isn't the only one with ties like that; most of the senior cabinet members have a great deal of investments in both these companies and others that also made out very well from this "war".

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:57 AM

FLETCH2


I think you are mixing up the message with the padding. For PN the message is that Jews are keeping white men like him down, the 9/11 stuff is just there to get you to read the message.

If you watch TV then the adverts are just irritations between programs. If TV is your business the programs are just things to make you watch the adverts.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:03 PM

MYSTRE


Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch2:
I think you are mixing up the message with the padding. For PN the message is that Jews are keeping white men like him down, the 9/11 stuff is just there to get you to read the message.

If you watch TV then the adverts are just irritations between programs. If TV is your business the programs are just things to make you watch the adverts.



This is why I'm somewhere in the middle ground. PN clearly has an agenda to propagate as does our government, I'm betting someplace in the middle somewhere is the truth...

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:55 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I don't have to make any "case". I just report the facts and draw the obvious extrapolation based on historical reality. The ranting, theorizing and wild conspiracy theories by Citzen, Bush et al just exposes their insanity for all to see. Don't worry, USA is being ripped to shreds right before your closed eyes, so you're never see it, so it can't be real - or can it? The definition of insanity is ignoring reality.

So if I AM "crazy", what does that tell you that your govt hired me to work on supersonic F-111 aircraft and nuclear bombs, conventional high explosive bombs, gatling guns firing 6,000 grenades per second, C-4 plastic explosives, and everything in between? Your govt trusted me to start a jet engine, climb in the cockpit and fire up the weapons system of a nuclear bomber loaded with live nukes...


www.raf-upper-heyford.org
www.geocities.com/pentagonwhistleblower

When my penthouse home was a towering inferno in Knoxville Tennessee, the fire was started by a billionaire Arab contractor of Gangsta Govt. I'm one of those lucky people who hears on a police scanner that your home is on fire, so you race at 100mph, see 50-foot tall flames shooting off your roof visible from the interstate, cross the police barracade, run up 5 flights of stairs to be sure everyone and all pets got out safe, then rescue my computer(!), then confront the fire chief with photos of the arsonists waving fire immediately prior to the inferno, then be threatened with arrest if I said the word "arson". The fire chief alleged he already knew the cause was an "accident" by the govt roofing contractors. This was 5 hours BEFORE the fire was extinguished, with total loss of the building (owned by the Arab contractor who "accidentally" burned down its own HQ 6 months later, getting a "free" new HQ via insurance fraud). The fire chief told me "I have a jail cell with your name on it if you try to provide photographic evidence of arson"! Of course, I was screaming in his face by that point, standing on the sidewalk, holding my computer, as the towing inferno threatened to torch an entire city block of 100-year-old brick buildings, as one did on that same block 100 years ago. Funny thing is, those brick and woods buildings did NOT collapse like the WTC. Even the wood beams even survived, despite the "total loss" insurance claim (building renamed "The Phoenix"). Over $300,000 damage done to my family's building next door, mainly water damage, tho if the wind had shifted 90 degress, our building would have been destroyed, rather than just a burned roof and walls cracked from heat.

Fire depts were invented as extortion rackets since Emperor Nero (a Jew) in Rome, who torched the city then blamed the Christians (ethical Jews). NY Fire Dept approved the genocide of 350 FDNY firefighters on 9/11, as confessed by OZ Jew Larry Silverstein and mafia mayor Sir Rudy Giulinani Knight of the BRITISH Empire.


CIA HQ in WTC7 was bombed/pulled
by controlled demolition by
Controlled Demolition Inc
www.controlled-demolition.com
www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema_report.html
LARGE ANIMATION: whatreallyhappened.com/wtc-7_1_.gif

Scientific experts agree:

Quote:

Physicist says heat substance felled WTC

EXXXTREMELY hot fires caused structures to fail, BYU expert says


Suzanne Dean
Deseret Morning News
April 11 2006

EPHRAIM — A Brigham Young University physicist said he now believes an incendiary substance called thermite, bolstered by sulfur, was used to generate exceptionally hot fires at the World Trade Center on 9/11, causing the structural steel to fail and the buildings to collapse.


This is what 1,000s of EXPLODING BOMBS looks like

"It looks like thermite with sulfur added, which really is a very clever idea," Steven Jones, professor of physics at BYU, told a meeting of the Utah Academy of Science, Arts and Letters at Snow College Friday.

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/STILLS/THERMIT/THERMITE/
64JPG48/3.JPG

Thermite homebrewed in university chemistry lab

Quote:

Thermite Reaction

A diagram shows the layers of solids within a ceramic pot prior to this reaction. Glycerin is added to potassium permanganate at the top of a ceramic pot containing aluminum metal and iron oxide. When ignited by the glycerin/permanganate reaction, the aluminum/iron oxide mixture reacts vigorously and spectacularly, producing molten iron and aluminum oxide.

Equation
Fe2O3 + 2Al --> Al2O3 + 2Fe

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/THERMIT/PAGE1.HTM



The government requires standard explosives to contain tag elements enabling them to be traced back to their manufacturers. But no tags are required in aluminum and iron oxide, the materials used to make thermite, he said. Nor, he said, are tags required in sulfur.

Jones is co-chairman, with James H. Fetzer, a distinguished professor of philosophy at the University of Minnesota of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, a group of college faculty members who believe conspirators other than pilots of the planes were directly involved in bringing down New York's Trade Towers.

Quote:

FREE VIDEO DOWNLOAD: September 11 Revisited

Were explosives used? It's been over 4 years since the most serious terrorist attack to hit USA, but has the story really been told? With 9/11 video clips rescued from the memory hole, Professor Stephen Jones and Dr David Griffin - Watch movie online or get the FREE DVD - Rated PG
www.911revisited.com



http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/STILLS/THERMIT/THERMIT1/
64JPG48/0.JPG


Quote:

The thermite reaction involves a mixture of iron oxide and aluminum that has been placed in a flower pot and covered with potassium permanganate. Some glycerin is poured over the potassium permanganate and eventually begins to react. When the iron oxide-aluminum mixture is ignited, a very vigorous reaction occurs and a molten metal can be seen dropping from the flower pot into a bucket of sand below. The reaction is extremely exothermic, a great deal of heat is given off. When the product of the reaction is examined a large piece of white hot iron has fallen into the sand at the bottom of the apparatus. This illustrates that aluminum is an extremely strong reducing agent and also that this reaction is very highly exothermic.
http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/THERMIT/PAGE1.HTM



The group, which Jones said has 200 members, maintains a Web site at www.st911.org. A 40-page paper by Jones, along with other peer-reviewed and non-reviewed academic papers, are posted on the site.

Last year, Jones presented various arguments for his theory that explosives or incendiary devices were planted in the Trade Towers, and in WTC 7, a smaller building in the Trade Center complex, and that those materials, not planes crashing into the buildings, caused the buildings to collapse.


Thermite grenades are routinely used by US Govt to kill innocent people

At that time, he mentioned thermite as the possible explosive or incendiary agent. But Friday, he said he is increasingly convinced that thermite and sulfur were the root causes of the 9/11 disaster.

He told college professors and graduate students from throughout Utah gathered for the academy meeting that while almost no fire, even one ignited by jet fuel, can cause structural steel to fail, the combination of thermite and sulfur "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."

He ticked off several pieces of evidence for his thermite fire theory:

First, he said, video showed a yellow, molten substance splashing off the side of the south Trade Tower about 50 minutes after an airplane hit it and a few minutes before it collapsed. Government investigators ruled out the possibility of melting steel being the source of the material because of the unlikelihood of steel melting. The investigators said the molten material must have been aluminum from the plane.

But, said Jones, molten aluminum is silvery. It never turns yellow. The substance observed in the videos "just isn't aluminum," he said. But, he said, thermite can cause steel to melt and become yellowish.

Second, he cited video pictures showing white ash rising from the south tower near the dripping, liquefied metal. When thermite burns, Jones said, it releases aluminum-oxide ash. The presence of both yellow-white molten iron and aluminum oxide ash "are signature characteristics of a thermite reaction," he said.

Another item of evidence, Jones said, is the fact that sulfur traces were found in structural steel recovered from the Trade Towers. Jones quoted the New York Times as saying sulfidization in the recovered steel was "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the (official) investigation." But, he said, sulfidization fits the theory that sulfur was combined with thermite to make the thermite burn even hotter than it ordinarily would.

Jones said a piece of building wreckage had a gray substance on the outside that at one point had obviously been a dripping molten metal or liquid. He said that after thermite turns steel or iron into a molten form, and the metal hardens, it is gray.

He added that pools of molten metal were found beneath both trade towers and the 47-story WTC 7. That fact, he said, was never discussed in official investigation reports.

And even though WTC 7 was not connected to the Trade Towers — in fact, there was another building between it and the towers —and even though it was never hit by a plane, it collapsed. That suggests, he said, that it came down because a thermite fire caused its structural steel to fail.

Jones said his studies are confined to physical causes of the collapses, and he doesn't like to speculate about who might have entered the buildings and placed thermite and sulfur. But he said 10 to 20 people "in the know," plus other people who didn't know what they were doing but did what they were told, could have placed incendiary packages over several weeks.

www.deseretnews.com/dn/print/1,1442,635198488,00.html



The official conspiracy theory is that "paper fires" melted the WTC, but the fires were far too cold to melt nor weaken thick, hardened high-carbon steel. Doh!

Quote:


WTC's internal steel collumns were the strongest on planet Earth

In combustion science, there are three basic types of flames, namely, a jet burner, a pre-mixed flame, and a diffuse flame. A jet burner generally involves mixing the fuel and the oxidant in nearly stoichiometric proportions and igniting the mixture in a constant-volume chamber. Since the combustion products cannot expand in the constant-volume chamber, they exit the chamber as a very high velocity, fully combusted, jet. This is what occurs in a jet engine, and this is the flame type that generates the most intense heat.

In a pre-mixed flame, the same nearly stoichiometric mixture is ignited as it exits a nozzle, under constant pressure conditions. It does not attain the flame velocities of a jet burner. An oxyacetylene torch or a Bunsen burner is a pre-mixed flame.

Quote:



Thermite, also know by the trade name Thermit, is a classic chemistry trick and is a mixture of very fine aluminum powder with a metallic oxide, often iron-oxide (rust). The mixture needs to be ignited by a high temperature flame, such as that provided by a lit piece of magnesium. If the mixture is right, and the temperature of the igniter is hot enough, and intense heat reaction will take place.

In this instance thermite made lighting a campfire easy. Check out the pictures and videos.

Thermite explosions are not unheard of, so it is important to be safety conscious. Apparently they usually happen when the mixture is moist, or in a container, but I am not sure. Wikipedia says, "When thermite is made using iron (III) oxide, for maximum efficiency it should contain, by mass, 25.3% aluminium and 74.7% iron oxide."

Of course, these activities are inherently dangerous and should not be attempted at home. These activites may not be legal in all areas, so check the law.
www.bavetta.com/thermite/thermite.html





In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition, but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C—hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated. It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a campfire or using a blacksmith’s bellows increases the rate of combustion by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel; hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich—hardly surprising with 90,000 L of jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750–800°C range. All reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology at best.

It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient, by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day, was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650°C fire.

The World Trade Center was not defectively designed.

www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html



A day in the life on the animal farm

by John Lee
www.PirateNews.org

Castrated steer #1: You know, none of the cattle that ride in farmerman's truck ever come back. I wonder where they go? I find it very suspicious that farmerman built this barbed wire electric fence, and makes us stand out in the rain and lightning storms. And when farmerman cut our balls off, he didn't even use anethesia. I'm starting to think something suspicious is going on.

Castrated steer #2: Awe shucks, that's all jus one of them thar conspiracy theories. Lookie thar, here comes farmerman's truck now. Let's run over thar and git a ride on that shit-covered box trailer. I bet he's got some really tasty hay waitin fer us when we git where we're goin. Yee haw!

(a little later)

Castrated steer #2: What tha heck is goin on? What's all that screaming about? I ain't never herd nuttin like that before! It's creepifyin! And what's that SMELL? I ain't never smelt nuttin like that before.

Castrated steer #1: I got a bad felling about this...

(a little later)

Castrated steer #2: What's that guy doing with that BIG knife? Why does that other guy have a BIG hammer in his hand? And why are they covered in BLOOD?! It don't make no sense...

Castrated steer #1: Must be one of them "conspiracy theories" you idiot. DAMN! I knew I shoulda kicked down that fence, or at least kicked that damn farmerman in the head when I had the chance. Hell, might as well kick these assholes in the nuts, since I've got nothing better to do. Come on, #2, let's just do it!

Castrated steer #2: You're crazy! I'm gonna just stand right here and do what I'm told. I'm sure farmerman wouldn't let nuttin bad happen to us. He loves us.... ARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG.....

Castrated steer #1: (kung foos butchers in slaughterhouse, escapes, lives happily ever after with an army of free cows, after they destroyed the slaughterhouse and... well, it was a nice dream as he slipped into unconsciousness, as his blood gushed into the drain in the concrete shit-covered floor, and he was hoisted by machine for dismemberment while still alive, but at least God granted him one last dissociation from reality as he floated away into eternal sleep)

(cut to White House)

Junior Bush: Boy, this hamburger sure is tasty. Tastes like sheeple!

Dick Cheney: You mean Goyim. Ymmmmm.


Difficile est saturam non scribere.
-John Lee, PNTV

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:04 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


A lot of conspiracy theories emerge from a sense of poetic balance. This is true of the JFK assassination conspiracies. Some people can’t seem to wrap their heads around the facts of this issue, because they can’t believe that someone as inconsequential and trivial as Oswald could have killed someone as important and influential as Kennedy. To many people, there is a sense of balance that is skewed, and in spite of all the facts pointing to Oswald, they are compelled to invent a fantasy to add more weight to the Oswald side of the story.

The same thing is true, I think, of the 9/ll conspiracy theories. I think people see a lack of poetic balance in the way 19 inconsequential nobodies could have killed 3000 innocent people, permanently altered the skyline of one of the World’s most influential cities and provoked one of the most powerful nations to war. When Pearl Harbor was attacked, it was from the Japanese Empire; there’s the sense of poetic balance there, but in some peoples’ minds, they just can’t grasp that 19 hijackers could have accomplished what it took the Japanese Air force to do in 1941. No matter how much factual evidence that is presented to them, they will insist upon inventing fantasies to add weight to the hijacker side of the equation. They will insist that only the United Stats itself could have pulled off such a terrible attack, all factual evidence be damned, because in their minds the facts are too lopsided to accept.

Even some more rational people are smitten by a sense of poetic balance. They accept the factual evidence, but then insinuate or sometimes even insist that the government let it happen, contrary to common sense and completely without supporting evidence. Just as all the evidence points to the Oswald as a lone gunman, all the evidence points to 19 lone hijackers. And as Fletch2 said, this is a terrifying concept. Some people may be prone to the conspiracy theories simply because the reality is just far too frightening.


And I don’t generally read Piratenews’ posts (mostly just look at the pictures), but I’m certain that he’s in his element here.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:05 PM

GREENFAERIE


Well, one other thing still bugs me. If these radical Islamic terrortists are still at us, why, after almost 5 years, have they not attempted to attack us again? I have heard no news of thwarted attacks, or anything of the sort. If they exist, what are they waiting for? Where are all these hidden cells? Why wouldn't the goverment at least tell us they have stopped their attempts if they had occurred?


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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:15 PM

FLETCH2


Well they have, just not in the US. They attacked Australians in Bali, the Spanish in Madrid and the Brits in London. There have been attempts here in the US but the FBI has been on the case and stopped most of them.

I also think they outdid themselves. After 9/11 if they try anything smaller people will see it as a sign of weakness "well ...... was the best they were able to do this time." I think it's a mind game. If you can't pull off another 9/11 scale attack it's better to keep the US worrying about another 9/11 attack rather than pull something farty and have folks downgrade your threat. Sometimes being seen as a big dog that hasn't bitten anyone yet is better than being a nippy little dog.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:18 PM

FLETCH2


Finn, yes I think that's a big part of it too. The truth of JFK was that an insignificant could take out the most powerful man in the world. If the President can be killed nobody is safe and there are a lot of Oswalds out there.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:35 PM

FREERADICAL42


To the above, it's mainly because we completely routed them and they're trying to get things back together. They'll attack us again, but this insane police state we're pushing for is not going to help us defend ourselves.

Quote:

So if I AM "crazy", what does that tell you that your govt hired me to work on supersonic F-111 aircraft and nuclear bombs, conventional high explosive bombs, gatling guns firing 6,000 grenades per second, C-4 plastic explosives, and everything in between? Your govt trusted me to start a jet engine, climb in the cockpit and fire up the weapons system of a nuclear bomber loaded with live nukes.


Clearly because no one else was crazy enough to do it.

I find it interesting that your only response to me was to insult my mother. I remember when "your mom's a whore" jokes were funny. It was in third grade. Did you stop working on planes because of a dishonorable discharge? Probably should've been.

On top of that, American Airlines is one of the few airlines that is not bankrupt, so I wonder how bankrupt your other facts are.

The only thing that you seem to have any information on is that Paxil is an SSRI. Yes, it is. That's probably where Joss Whedon got the name Pax, right? No. "Paxil" and "Pax" are both named from the Latin word for "Peace"; remember "Pax Romana"? "Pax Dei"? Were the Catholic Church of the 1000s and the Romans of the 100s giving their population SSRIs? I'm guessing they weren't, but you might suggest they were. A similarity of three letters means nothing.

You use words as if you know what they mean, which is a foolish assumption; see, for us SCIENTISTS, there is a certain economy of scale involved.

For example, take my claim that the WTC towers were similar to a watermelon being hit with a bullet; when you scale up, they are. They're being hit with more mass, more momentum, and more kinetic energy and heat than a watermelon being hit by a bullet, but they can also withstand more. The two models are roughly analogous. Because the steel beams in the WTC were on the exterior of the buildings, they were like the hard rind of the melon. With only drywall and elevator shafts on the interior, the heat from jetfuel fires caused the drywall to weaken (drywall does not burn, rather it gets weaker and weaker with heat). With the weight of the building resting on broken steel beams (they would not have had to melt, after all they were severed by the impact), the thing was bound to collapse. You see the buildings collapse downward and outward like that because you have a large weight on the top of something that is essentially hollow and empty.

The thing that someone realises from actually doing difficult mathematics and physics is that human scale is pathetically small. It's hard to understand if your mind hasn't worked on that level before, I don't blame you for not understanding that. I blame you for being completely insulting about it.

"See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:00 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I'm glad you like staring at my pretty pictures. FIRE... DEATH... PRETTY.......... Just like Cremation of Care and snuff porn from Bohemian Grove, huh?

Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

Clearly because no one else was crazy enough to do it.



I joined USAF to drive race cars and meet chicks, which worked out very well, except for all that killer Gulf War Syndrome Thing.
Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

I find it interesting that your only response to me was to insult my mother. I remember when "your mom's a whore" jokes were funny.

On top of that, American Airlines is one of the few airlines that is not bankrupt, so I wonder how bankrupt your other facts are.



While I'm not sure I ever met your mother, I'm basing my description of pilot groupies based upon my own personal knowledge of airline stewardesses. As Randi Rhoads says on her radio show, "I'll spread my legs anytime for a pilot." Is that a fair description of your mommy?

Crikey, someone is full of poo today. And it sure ain't me. American Airlines management is THREATENING to FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY, in BANKRUPTCY COURT, under Chapter 11 of the BANKRUPTCY CODE. AA is looting its pension funds. When I flew to New Orleans on AA last month, reading airport signs in COMMUNIST CHINESE, NONE of the 4 aircraft were made in USA. (100,000 homes in New Orleans are still without power and condemned for demolition, with a confessed "500" bodies still inside, ready for burial as landfill, but the real # is probably 50,000 dead, judging by how Gangsta Govt and Media Mafia cook the books.)

American Airlines bought BANKRUPT TWA. AA certainly didn't pay TWA's creditors, and looted its pensions funds by robbing TWA employees, then firing them. TWA's unsecured creditors got NOTHING.

"Bankrupt" also means it can't pay its bills, which IS true today, and has been for quite some time. Either you rob your creditors (who counterfeited the "money" out of thin air), or you rob your employees, as AA is now doing. That's great, AA robbing your mommy's pension, if not her job, but at least you can brag that AA's not technically bankrupt, at least not yet, while AA managers bail out with their Golden Parachutes.

On top of that AA has been criminally prosecuted by the US Govt for antitrust monopoly, price rigging, racketeering and organized crime:
www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f8100/8134.htm

No, AA would never do anything illegal, like aid and abet the Bush Gang in perping 9/11, and killing a few bitchy employees trying to get paid... Hell, that would save money on pensions, wouldn't it...

100,000 US airline employees got fired after 9/11. That's what happens when airline slaves keep their mouths shut while George "I'm A Dictator" Bush destroys the US economy and the US aircraft manufacturers and the US airlines.

Obviously, you have nothin intelligent to say about 9/11. Too bad Bush didn't murder you too that day. Would've been good riddance! At least Bush murdered a shitload of copsters and useful idiot RepubliCONs. It's like the tobacco corporations genociding 400,000 customers every year - they just find 400,000 new suckers to take their place.

Quote:

The parent company of American Airlines will lose 20,000 workers - spread across American, Trans World Airlines and the American Eagle commuter carrier, the parent company, AMR Corporation. But the US Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, told Congress that the US government would move swiftly to give aid to the industry, to ensure that the costs of extra safety measures and the increased costs of insurance did not fall on the industry. The US government has proposed a $5bn handout to help US airlines and assist with insurance liabilities, but has stopped short of the $12.5bn (bribe) the industry says it needs to stave off bankruptcies (and shut up about 9/11 being an inside job).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1553416.stm

American Airlines, the world's largest passenger carrier, could seek Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as early as next week, The New York Times reported on Friday. The New York daily based its report on two unnamed bankers whom it said had been briefed on the airline's condition. One said that the airline needed US$1.5bn to avoid seeking the protection from its creditors granted by bankruptcy. Tara Baten, a spokesperson for American, told the Times that the airline, a unit of AMR, still hoped to avoid a Chapter 11 filing. US airlines have been stalling since the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington. The second-largest carrier, United, filed for bankruptcy last year as did US Airways, the sixth-largest. The situation became worse with the start of the US-led war on Iraq.
www.news24.com/News24/Finance/Companies/0,6119,2-8-24_1339734,00.html

The merger will make American Airlines the world's largest air carrier. The purchase of bankrupt TWA already has received approval from Department of Justice and Department of Transportation regulators, as well as the approval of TWA's unions.
http://money.cnn.com/2001/04/09/deals/twa/index.htm

In 2005, the U.S. airline industry is expected to lose between $9 billion and $10 billion, due in large part to rising jet fuel prices. Over the last five years, the industry has lost more than $40 billion. In that period, 17 different U.S. airlines have filed for bankruptcy.
www.meetingsnet.com/associationmeetings/mag/meetings_flying_bankrupt_s
kies
/

American Airlines, Northwest Airlines and JetBlue Airways have raised ticket fares in various markets, a press release said. They hope to recoup some of their increased costs from record fuel prices. Flight analysts feel that the current rise in oil prices is enough to make some airlines bankrupt. The higher ticket prices did little to help the beleaguered industry's shares, as oil prices raced to record highs above $66 a barrel on Friday.
www.dancewithshadows.com/airlines/flights-increase-fares.asp

Airlines Bankrupt: When Will Government Step In?

Two days later, American Airlines, the world's largest carrier, preemptively initiated a self-cannibalization and shrinkage plan, trying desperately to please the Wall Street financial speculators who have sold off its stock: retiring 83 planes, reorganizing its "hub" system by scrapping multiple flights at peak hours, trading big planes for smaller, regional aircraft, while laying off another 7,000 employees.
www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2932airlines.html

And now American Airlines is about to join the bread line in front of bankruptcy court. It's no secret that for the last couple of weeks American has been sniffing around town trying to line up a couple billion in loans.

Here's a sign of the times, though: nobody would consider that kind of money unless the company goes into bankruptcy first. Most likely lender: Citigroup. Remember the guys who loaned billions to Latin American countries in the eighties because they thought that was a good investment? Well, a full 3 percent of their annual earnings per share comes from the American Airlines Frequent Flyer credit card. Chapter 11, the airline's best friend, finally looms before the airline that was once considered the strongest and most solvent in the world. In case you're keeping track, American follows United (December), US Airways (last summer), and, going back in time, Continental, Northwest, TWA, Eastern, Pan American and Braniff. United Airlines is still steamed that the Bush administration refused to fork over $1.8 billion in 9/11 money last December, triggering the Chapter 11 action. American Airlines lost $3.5 billion in 2002. They're still hemorrhaging $5 million a day. Of the $4 billion they need to trim to stay afloat, they say they can find two of it through cutbacks. The other half would need to come from three big unions--the pilots, the mechanics and the flight attendants. Early returns indicate that the pilots and mechanics are willing to bite the bullet, but the flight attendants--already battered by various efficiency moves over the past 15 years--are not likely to vote for any more layoffs and pay cuts.
www.joebobbriggs.com/specialreports/20030414.html

These airlines filed for bankruptcy protection on the following dates:

Northwest Airlines: 14 September 2005
Delta Air Lines: 14 September 2005
Mesaba Aviation: 13 October 2005
Independence Air: 7 November 2005 (ceased service 5 January 2006)
Era Aviation: 28 December 2005

The current airline bankruptcy proceedings will probably go on for many months, perhaps for years. Some airlines -- including Continental Airlines, America West, US Airways, United Airlines, ATA Airlines ("American Trans Air"), Hawaiian Airlines, and Aloha Airlines -- have reorganized under bankruptcy protection, and are still operating. Several others in the USA, and more in other parts of the world, have gone out of business, sometimes after being in and out of bankruptcy repeatedly.

www.hasbrouck.org/articles/bankruptcy.html

Quote:


Florida Coastal Airlines (February 2006)

Independence Air (January 2006)

TransMeridian Airlines (September 2005)

Westward Airways (July 2005)

Southeast Airlines (November 2004)

National Airlines (November 2002)

Vanguard Airlines (July 2002)

Midway Airlines (July 2002)

Legend Airlines (December 2000)

Pro Air (September 2000)

Tower Air (February 2000)

Access Air (November 1999)

Sunjet International/Myrtle Beach Jet Express (June 1999)

Kiwi International Airlines (March 1999)

Euram Flight Centre (July 1998)

Pan American World Airways (February 1998)

Western Pacific Airlines (February 1998)

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/cessations.htm




American Airlines bought "bankrupt" TWA in 2001 (and firing ALL 4,000 of TWA's stewardesses), making AA a terrorist organization, by aiding and abeting the terrorists who shot down TWA 800. By faking loss of 2 jets on 9/11, AA is again aiding and abetting terrorism. Funny how those "dead" tail numbers were still listed as flying as of 2005 in the US govt's FAA database, just like the "dead" passengers were listed as alive in the US govt's Social Security database... Funny how those "dead" hijackers are still alive, giving TV interviews. Funny how USAma Bin Ladened denied having anything to do with 9/11. Funny how idiot sheeple and traitors go along with the real terrorists who hijacked the White House.

Why you would support a "president" who invades innocent nations TO STOP THEM FROM SELLING CHEAP OIL TO USA? Especially when that insanity is destroying your family's financial future? Now our psycho-in-chief is planning to nuke Iran, to shut down their oil supply, too. Bush already gives 90% of Alaskan oil to Commie China, Japan and Mexico, while pumping most of the rest back into the ground at Prudeau Bay. Psychiatrists call it "Stockholm Syndrome".

Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

The only thing that you seem to have any information on is that Paxil is an SSRI. Yes, it is. That's probably where Joss Whedon got the name Pax, right? No. "Paxil" and "Pax" are both named from the Latin word for "Peace"; remember "Pax Romana"? "Pax Dei"? Were the Catholic Church of the 1000s and the Romans of the 100s giving their population SSRIs? I'm guessing they weren't, but you might suggest they were. A similarity of three letters means nothing.



P=1
A=2
X=3
I=4
L=5
H=6
C=7
L=8

G-PAXILon HydroClorate = PAXIL (Paroxetine HCl) = PAXIL HCl

PAXIL HCL = PAXIL HCL

Doh! Spellin aint that hard. What do ya think Joss is tryin ta tell ya?

And the Romans and Catholics did eat SSRIs, just like all creatures since the dawn of time. St Johns Wort was named during the Crusades, to keep the soldier/slaves from going insane, what with all their raping and killing and dying. Just like people and animals and bugs have been eating opium, cocaine, hemp, mushrooms and alcohol since the dawn of time.

WTC steel was STILL MELTED AND LIQUIFIED for several days AFTER 9/11, which is IMPOSSIBLE without MASSIVE PREINSTALLED explosives - installed by Marvin Bush, brother of GW, who ran "security" at WTC on 9/11.


The photograph below by Frank Silecchia shows a chunk of the hot metal being removed from the North Tower rubble about eight weeks after 9-11. Notice the color of the lower portion of the extracted metal -- this tells us much about the temperature of the metal and provides important clues regarding its composition, as we shall see. By Professor Steven E. Jones, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University
www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:

For example, take my claim that the WTC towers were similar to a watermelon being hit with a bullet; when you scale up, they are. They're being hit with more mass, more momentum, and more kinetic energy and heat than a watermelon being hit by a bullet, but they can also withstand more. The two models are roughly analogous. Because the steel beams in the WTC were on the exterior of the buildings, they were like the hard rind of the melon. With only drywall and elevator shafts on the interior.



Quote:


http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

WTC core columns were the largest on Earth

Reports on the number of core columns vary from 44 to 47. The exact arrangement of the columns is not known due to the secrecy of detailed engineering drawings of the towers. It is clear from photographs, such as the one on the right, that the core columns were abundantly cross-braced.

Establishing the true nature of the core structures is of great importance given that the most widely read document on the World Trade Center attack -- the 9/11 Commission Report -- denies their very existence, claiming the towers' cores were "hollow steel shafts":

Quote:

"For the dimensions, see FEMA report, 'World Trade Center Building Performance Study,' undated. In addition, the outside of each tower was covered by a frame of 14-inch-wide steel columns; the centers of the steel columns were 40 inches apart. These exterior walls bore most of the weight of the building. The interior core of the buildings was a hollow steel shaft, in which elevators and stairwells were grouped."
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html


BULLSHIT!


Look at those 47 core columns at WTC
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html



mit.edu/activities/safe/wtc/wtc066_1024x768.jpg
WTC CORE collumns were the largest in the world
www.mit.edu/activities/safe/wtc/wtc-photos.htm


The WTC towers were solidly constructed with 47 steel core columns and 240 perimeter steel columns. 287 steel-columns total. Steel-frame: Huge core (left) is an enormous heat sink. Notice workers standing on floor pan which is firmly attached to the interconnected core columns.
www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


The WTC was a watermelon. That's a good one. With brains like yorn ya must be a prosecuder like Heeeeero.

As for picking on your name FreeRadical42, presumably you mean President #42, Bill "Clinton" (Rockefeller):

"President Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe III ."
www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html

Funny how none of the Media Mafia nor GOPsters pick on Bill for attending synogogue, then changing his name when he turned 18. Only criminals do thing like that. Or actors. Or unelected Watergate president Gerald "Magic Bullet" Ford, aka Leslie Lynch King Jr, the pedophile porn king of the Michigan Mafia, but not even whitehouse.gov admits that.

"Gerald Rudolph Ford was born Leslie King Jr."
www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0760622.html

"Gerald Ford" recruited Cathy O'Brien into CIA MKULTRA "Project Monarch" sexslave program, based on her pedophile father's beastiality porn confiscated by USPS. O'Brien and her lobotomized daughter Kelly were Joss's models for River...
www.trance-formation.com
www.piratenews.org/video-archive.html


The basis of optimism is sheer terror.
-Oscar Wilde

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:21 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by freeradical42:
It's hard to understand if your mind hasn't worked on that level before, I don't blame you for not understanding that. I blame you for being completely insulting about it.




Oh, I don't think it's a question of his not understanding, I think it's just his being a looney toon that gets in the way.

For once I think I actually agree with Finn (I know, write this date down). I think some people need to feel safe so badly (not just feel safe, I think, but explain why others don't feel the same way- i.e., because others just don't 'see' or 'get' what's happening around them) that they construct wild fantasies using whatever facts they can cobble together out of heresay and speculation.

But what do I know. I have to go visit Citizen and the rest of the sane posters in our Bohemian Grove, Jew-Commie-Capitalist-Islamo-Christian-Socialist paradise. Or something, assuming the flouride in my water or the lack of tinfoil on my head doesn't get me first.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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