REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The 12th Planet/Nibiru/ Zacharia Stitchen/ End Time/ The Gods of Eden & the Mayan Calender/Alternative Belifes

POSTED BY: PIRATEJENNY
UPDATED: Monday, June 5, 2006 00:46
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Friday, May 19, 2006 5:17 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Wasn't Stichin the man Jayne killed in Jaynestown?


BTW I'm Catholic and I can see both sides of the argument but sonofman, to say that every religion but christianity is faith and christianity is a state of mind, what the hell is that? You follow God yes, Jesus yes? You believe in them yes? Honey, that's faith, welcome to the ride. I believe in both as well but jeeze, your scaring me a bit hon. Ease up, when you get that heavy with your beliefs you will scare some off, not meaning to be a bitch just saying a fact. I went to Catholic school, learned about creation, the holy trinity, and the lot, but even I can find a belief in the Big Bang. It's interposed with the Creation theory, honey, seriously, when you ask people to BELIVE in God's way and not be closed minded, maybe do the same yourself. There's room for both. Trust me.

Citizen, luv ya and all but wow, you can be a beast, not starting a fight luv just asking to take a breath first before you respond is all. Sonofman has some keen points and I know you responded with great intellegent whit, just please try to be a bit more.... tolerant I guesse...

Ok, rereading it sounds like I insulted you by calling you a beast, didn't mean it the way it sounded (unless you wife/girlfriend can confirm when your in the bedroom) little levity to break the tension.

I guesse this shows why I don't belong in these threads, I mean I can get as heavily engrossed as the lot of you, but then I hate myself later.

Can't we just kiss and sing "The Man they call Jayne?"

(Oh, I'm not even going to bother responding to the original thread. No offence, not my bag man)

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Friday, May 19, 2006 7:14 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by SonofMan:
i know this thread has been dorment for awhile..but when i saw it i just had to respond. Has anywhere here even read the Bible? in its entirety?

and im directing this mostly to the thread starter...since he brings up Sitchin and his annunnaki stories. please understand, the reason the sumerians stories pre-date the bibles IS NOT because the bible stole, watered down and misinterpreted the ancient beliefs.

the bible is simply told from a different vantage point, in that it is God, the energy force beyond space and time, the creator of the universe, and his contacts with the early patriarchs. when we
"fell" from our original intent, we became susceptable to false truths and diceptive "knowledge"..which was given to us by the rebellious beings created before man: the annunnaki. ever wonder why, despite the acclaimed "break-throughs" in science, and all this supposed knowledge that humans have now, and yet...the most basic, fundemental issues of our race, greed, bigotry, murder, diception, war...have been with us since the beginning??? what progress are all you scientists really flaunting out there?? and i doubt that the annunnaki, who came to enslave us...have the spiritual answeres we;re looking for. maybe if the world wasnt so anti-christian, maybe we;d be farther along

the annunaki that you are refferring to, can without a doubt be reconciled with the fallen angles of Genesis 6. they were Gods original creations, who rebelled, along with Lucifer, against God and subsequently intervened in Mans progress on earth. which is the purpose of Jesus, and the coming revelations of mankinds redemption from its fall. its quite obvious to be honost...if you read the referces in the bible to the heavenly hosts, who left their domain, to forsake God and ultimately corrupt humanity from reaching its pre=fall potential. there is noo doubt they are one and the same

what is more likely?? that the God of creation caused the flood to wipe out humanity, due to corruption, degeneration, and all the other immoral actions taken place during that time(thanks to the knowledge from the annunaki). or that the flood was cause.. as Sitchin claims...on the part of the annunnaki due to excessive human noisiness?? of course their are similarities between the bible and the sumerian cuniform...the sumerians worshipped idols, and created things(gods..with a small G), wheres Abraham and the isrealis (tried) to worship the creator God...who we would have no contact, or relationship with-without an intervention on his part(the patriarchs..Jesus??)

i especially love when people say that religion is the cause for all the worlds ills. if we are merely evolved species, why do we have a conscience at all?? i consider the 10 commandments to be essentially our basic conscience...not coincidentally, and its hard to image early man making peace without an idealogy that is flawless from the beginning. but to be clear..no holy person, would be envolved in a holy war..its contradictory. so the wars were not started under benevolent circumstances. and secondly...islam, catholicism, judiasm..those are religions, but christianity is not. it is a state of mind that requires almost NO inherent structural traditions; which is why many christians are accused of being hypocrites, because a true christian follows the way of Jesus..but someone can easily cliam to be christian in word, but be an evil person in deed. when you accept the word of Jesus, you change from the inside out...Bush can claim hes a christian, but his actions dont verify his position. if there were no religion, what standards would man have to conform his behavior too?? i know you athiests would rather not have restrictions in your lives..no consequences for immorality or other sins..but your conscience might disagree, and when you die youll be expected to account for your actions, so be aware

but where would we be without Moses 10 commandments, and the fullfillment of the LAW through Jesus? this was the reason God, the creator, chose Abraham do be his covenant people, so that man might know what his true relationship with the creator was..in which he would re-introduce humanity to its eithical and affirming lifestyle as was intended by God. the annunaki, and their leader, perverted humanity..thats all there is too it, and its quite evident through ancient cultures

the reason the world is this way is simple. the Bible says specifically, that this is Satans age, that he is the spiritual ruler of this world, and that he is the father of lies, and when he speaks deception, he speaks his native tongue. any ideals anti-christian in nature benefit him! which is why it is neccessary to accept the testimony of Jesus, and to follow his idealogies...because as we have seen, Man, natural insticts.. have created the turmoil in this world. how can you say Christians are partly responsible for the condition of things, when this world is directly opposed to the beliefs of Jesus?? it is not taught in our schools, it is laughed at in universities, it takes no precedent in politics..more accurately, it is man following his own desires which is responsible for our current state of affairs

and i personaly believe there is something to the 2012 date, because their are ultimately 2 sources of belief in this world(not counting athiesm, because its a joke). there is the knowledge that was given to us through Satan, and the fallen angels(annunaki) when they came to earth in the very beginning(hence why they have the oldest known civilazation), and beliefs based on Abrahams teaching of the creator God. if youve ever read the book of Enoch, Jubilees, or even Jasher...they explain in detail how it is that the annunnaki convinced early man why they were their creators. if youve read the Bible, youd understand that they are decieving humanity, to fullfill the end goal of the antichrist. that is the incentive for the annunnaki to deny a creator, and to claim to be our true progenitors. but that would be a LIE, or the LIE that the bible prophecies to take place at the end of the age

and if you want evidence for this, good the NWO conspiracy. is it a coincidence that their is a shadow agenda taking place in the world to create a fascist, one world government police state, where everyone is tracked and monitored, and must recieve a mark before buying or selling?? i dont see the annunnaki warning us of this...because they, and the elite occultists who do their bidding, are working on behalf of the anti-christ, intentionally or in-directly. if you look into the alien, ET roswell conspiracies..and their contact with elite government officials..is it a coincidence that the "aliens" support a one world government? or that they would give us techonology that ultimately helps to enslave mankind?? i think not..but these aliens, are one and the same as the fallen angels, and the annunnaki...all signs point to the same thing.

and revelation predicts their return, during a time called the apostasy, or the falling away of the church. and my guess is this diception that you have been taken by, will be an active religious componant of what is to become the mark of the beast, or this one world government, one world religion, one world economy. that is proof enough IMO of the bible accuracy, i see nothing else that has made predictions to this extent, especially which are unfolding as we speak

and PS..christians dont believe that we are nearing "the end" of time. we know that Jesus resurrection begins his earthly kingdom, and the dawn of a new age..but first this age, Satans age..must come to pass. what is happening now is an attempt to seize the dawning of this new age, but Satan WILL FAIL!





"i am the Alpha and the Omega..who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty"
-Jesus Christ Rev.1:8




I've read the bible, and my advice to you is , I think you need to read the bible again if you haven't already, and then you need to read ancient summarian text, because Yes its a historical fact that in the old testament the Hebrew bible that the majority of stories in the bible have been taken for much older sources namely the summarians, now this isn't an opinion, this is a fact!!! that can easily be proven..ok!!

It has nothing to do with a diffrent perspective , its fact!! I'm always amazed at how little so called christians actually know about their own religion.

If you were really interested in the truth about your religion you would stop trying to spin it to make it fit your world view or whatever. The Christian religion is already so full of holes its enough to make a persons head spin, but I'm not going to tell you what to believe or not to believe, but the truth is the truth and no amount of spin is going to change that!!


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Friday, May 19, 2006 10:08 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


*ouch* Jenny, harsh. Listen if you two are so hard core I suggest you go into your respective corners and fight it out. Winner fights Citizen.

BTW hon, no need to insult. It's one thing to have an opinion but to insult the entire Christian faith. Hey, you didn't like it when you thought Citizen insulted you. How's about some tolerance here. Or do the Summarians not know that word.

BTW, this....
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If you were really interested in the truth about your religion you would stop trying to spin it to make it fit your world view or whatever. The Christian religion is already so full of holes its enough to make a persons head spin, but I'm not going to tell you what to believe or not to believe, but the truth is the truth and no amount of spin is going to change that!!

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You just contradicted yourself darlin. You won't tell us what to believe in but it's wrong so we shouldn't believe in it..... *whoosh* Honey your spinning your own stuff....

Guesse that means your coming after me next. Well and away, have to and all that. *smoochies* if it means anything to you.


If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Saturday, May 20, 2006 8:07 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by Misstressahara:
*ouch* Jenny, harsh. Listen if you two are so hard core I suggest you go into your respective corners and fight it out. Winner fights Citizen.

BTW hon, no need to insult. It's one thing to have an opinion but to insult the entire Christian faith. Hey, you didn't like it when you thought Citizen insulted you. How's about some tolerance here. Or do the Summarians not know that word.

BTW, this....
`````````````````````````````````````````````````
If you were really interested in the truth about your religion you would stop trying to spin it to make it fit your world view or whatever. The Christian religion is already so full of holes its enough to make a persons head spin, but I'm not going to tell you what to believe or not to believe, but the truth is the truth and no amount of spin is going to change that!!

`````````````````````````````````````````````````
You just contradicted yourself darlin. You won't tell us what to believe in but it's wrong so we shouldn't believe in it..... *whoosh* Honey your spinning your own stuff....

Guesse that means your coming after me next. Well and away, have to and all that. *smoochies* if it means anything to you.


If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting



Why do you consider facts to be an insult? it is a fact that the Old testment Hebrew bible stories is taken from much older sources namely the summarians thats a fact

and no I didnot contridict myself it is not my place to tell someone what they should or should not believe in and I didn't. The christian religion is full of holes and saying so isn't an insult to a whole faith its the truth, believe me if I wanted to insult the whole christian faith I would.

people like you are scared to face facts thats the problem, you guys aren't interested in facts.


Quote:

are not the sumerian text the equivelant to the bible in that they rely on first hand accounts and eye witness testimony


yes...yes ..and yes..actually the sumerian text are by far more accurate and more detailed then the bible , the bible is full of allegory and symbolism, the summarian text isn't and yes some of the text is even written in the 1rst person. the sumerian text is far superior to the bible accounts, you should check it out.

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and my opinion regarding catholics and jews being religions, is that the Jewish high priests were continually rebuffed my Jesus by being hyprocrital towards their interpretation of the Law. i dont claim to be a bible scholar, as the rest of you in here, but was not the purpose of Jesus coming to fullfill the Law by introducing the holy spirit? it seems to me that a lot of religions instutionalize certain ceremonies, and in that why, become idolatrous towards God. that is just a theory i am considering..is it FACT NO. but is it worth considering..yes. thats not to say that christianity today is perfect either, i never claimed that..i think we;ve become in-grained wtih pagan and occultic influences that we may not even be aware of.


yes like christmas and easter among many other influences, christians say amen,after a prayer, which orginates from Amen Ra, the eygptian God, who was Marduke in the summarian pantheon. The cross which is the main symbol of christianty orginates in ancient sumaria and has long been used there, there are so many things in the christian religion that orginates in what you call pagan religions and thats simply because christianty in an off-shoot of the judeo religon which itself is an off shoot of older relgions with the orginal source being in summaria, the hebrew bible is just a condensed version of older stories to make it fit monotheism. Thats why alot of the stories such as Adam and Eve for example don't make much sense, but when you go back and read the orginal sumarian source it makes a great deal of sense

being a christian I don't know if your aware of this or not but, it makes total sense that the judeo hebrew bible (old testment) would come from summarian sources for the simple fact that the Hebrews descended from a clan which lived in the Summarian city of Ur. around 2000 to 1500 B.C the patriarch of that clan was Abraham. Abraham and his clan were summarians.


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but Jesus did claim that the only way to the father was through him, did he not? if it wasnt neccessary for Jesus to sacrifice himself for our sins, nor even believe in him, than why would God do it??


But the God that Jesus believed in, is the same Gods that orginate in Sumaria the "anunnakki", so if Jesus is really the son of so called God then he is a son of an annunakki, and the summarians state plainly that their Gods came from a planet called Nibiru, the 12th planet in our solar system. and to be fair, there is not a whole lot of information on Jesus Christ, while I do believed he existed, there is alot we don't really know about him, There is some speculation that the whole resurrection thing didn't even really happen, and I think its unfair to say that Jesus died for all our sins, thats ridiculous. People are responssible for their own sins, not a man who isn't even alive.


Quote:

christians have no religion without Jesus being the son of God, God incarnate, and his ressurection...that should be the point of that. im no bible expert, but i dont think you guys can claim to be either. everyone should look into things themselves, regardless of what other say...which was my intention in commenting on Zacharia Sitchin. so enough already, lets here you experts out there rebuff some other beliefs while your at it!


true, your right people should look into things for themselves an not take anyones word for it, I agree with you on that.

Quote:

if we were all perfect, then we wouldnt need Jesus..so rather than attacking me, how about some constructive criticism.


well I'm sure as hell not perfect, but I don't need jesus, its not up to a god or Gods or whatever to save us, its up to human beings to do that for our selves. Salvation is free, but it can only come from us, not outside of ourselves, we don't need to look outside of ourselves for the answer to our problems we are more then capable of handling them oursleves, and the sooner we all realize that the better off we will all be


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Saturday, May 20, 2006 8:46 PM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Just Curious,
Where can I find Semmerian texts to check out?

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Saturday, May 20, 2006 9:15 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Just Curious,
Where can I find Semmerian texts to check out?



you can go to the library and check out books on summarians, its that easy

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Saturday, May 20, 2006 11:41 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

...Other considerations that weigh in against Stichin's claims:

1) Life requires external energy to operate. In our case its the Sun. It provides fuel for plants which provide fuel for other critters (including us). While 470 A.U.s may be cosmological chicken feed in terms of distance, it does render the Sun a negligible energy source for fueling life on Planet X at aphelion. In fact, ALL external energy sources in our galactic neighborhood are chicken feed at that distance. You can postulate that this Intelligence on Planet X developed their own energy sources... but that just begs the argument "where did the energy to sustain them come from before they got smart enough to scavenge it on their own?" You can't just say "Well there must have been something else at the start because they exist now!" That's something of a circular argument... impossible to refute, contributing no information, hence useless..



according to Zecharia Stitchen the planet Nibiru, has an internal heat source, that comes from the planets inner core.

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Monday, May 22, 2006 8:25 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by SonofMan:
i understand the origins of the sumerian texts, i have not read all them per se, so i cannot comment outside of what i do know, but i am fully aware they pre-date the bible, and im vaguely aware of the general similarities. i wasnt always christian, and i didnt always believe the Bibles take



i wouldnt claim that christianity is full of holes though... there are false practices and dis- and mis-information, certainly, which could have happened over time, if you believe that this world has been under control of the rebellious forces from the beginning. but at the same time its hard to imagine a fairy tale being acknowledge 2000+ years later, if there were no evidence of any accuracies.. i mean does not history have a way of weeding out the truth from the fancifull? there are a lot of scriptures that werent involved in the canon, which serve as additional sources, such as the book of Enoch and Jubilees, which describe essentially the same thing as Sitchin, but again from a more divine Biblical perspective..like Enoch for example, besides that some claim him being involved in the developement of the sphinx(i dont know the hole story though specifically), but it talks about the names and the knowledge of these fallen beings, and the influence they had on "Adams" ancestors.(whether created by the annunnaki or God).

i will say though that certainly every person is responsible for their own actions, or sins, the bible never contradicts that. it simply gives explanations as to how sin entered the world, what its purpose is, and so on...but i wont bother with that aspect..i just want to say that the bible doesnt allow believers a free pass on sin, ints not as if we plead "the devil made me do it!" therefore become guiltless..but we acknowledge the mystery of lawlessness in the world

only i dont see how the first hand accounts of matthew, mark, and luke(or john, i forget) become discounted, or the thousands of eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, or even the witnesses to his alleged ressurrection. if we wanted to assume that the claims by the sumerians are correct, i dont know for sure whether the belief in the annunnaki automatically refutes Jesus' legacy. the Bible would claim that the annunnaki were created things, they were present at the creation of man.. whether they want to claim for themselves the work or not, thats debatable..but i think there are enough similarites to suggest that there is a power struggle occuring, and not between enki and enlil, but between both of them and the creator.

if their were a God of creation, which was to manifest itself in the form of a man, would that oppose aliens coming from a distant planet to earth? IMO not neccessarily..unless the annunnaki claimed to have evolved...do you know what they claim on that issue? understand im being genuine, im not asking condescendingly...

its definately an interesting subject.. especially since the Bible claims that they will return, as im sure Sitchin claims of the annunnaki. which if thats the case, it is worthwhile to consider the similarities between the two and how they should be associated




you must remember that I'm talking about the Old testment, not the new testement, and you seem to be alot more open minded then I orginally thought I must admit!!

nor am I saying that the bible should be discounted, actually I'm saying the opposite, I believe the stories, but they have to be put in proper context and in order to do that you have to go to the orginal source.


Quote:

i was aware that Abraham came from that region, which is why i posed that obviously he would be knowledgeable of the culture or beliefs of that time, which he left at the behest of God; that would be our religions beginning. i will have to become more familiar with the sumerian texts once again, but i dont see how they supersede, or discredit or invalidate the Bible, when it clearly chooses a divergent path from previous history. i realize it claims to be the factual origins of the Bible, but its yet to be proven that the Bible is meritless or a complete plagurization(?) when it can be compared to the equivelant of an opposing testimony


there is some speculation among scholars if Abraham was even a real person, but asumming he was according the bible he was befriended by a personality called Jehoveh, now some time during or before this period there was alot going in Sumer, namely with marduk and I'm not sure at this point if Marduke's cult center was in Ur or not, but if so Marduke "could be Jehoveh" - thats my own speculation.... I'll have to do some research on that, but alot of it would explain in some ways how monotheism came into being,..Marduke an annunakki and son of Enki had challegned the reigning powers being Enki's half brother Enlil and Enlil's son Nintura as king of earth, The annunakki had a long history of internal rivalries and conflicts amongst eachother, I could go into all of it but it would take forever.

A war actually broke out, and from the discriptions nuclear bombs were used and caused much strife for the people, at one point Marduke even had to go into exile,during this conflict, tragedy struk Marduke's younger brother Dimuzi who was married to Innanna, who is also known as Ishtar/ Aphrodite among some of her other names, blamed Marduke for Dimuzi's death and even took up arms in battle with him going so far as to gather a human army from her cult center who did battle with other human armies from Mardukes followers , Marduke grew a sevre hatred of her that seemed to extend to females in general. Once he came into power he even went so far as to making laws that infringed on females, its no accident that along with monotheism the role of women were greatly diminished. Summarian women and women throughtout Sumer an the world at that time were treated pretty much as equals until Marduke came into power. ..Marduke from what I gathered reading about him, seemed to me to be somewhat of a power hungry ego mananic, although I do understand some of the issues that made him that way having to do with his father Enki who Marduke felt was shafted from what was rightfully his, but I digress, what I wanted to get down to, is when Marduke finally came to power after overcoming many obstcles thats when things begin to change and he did actually declare himself as the one an only God among the peoples, he even went so far as to have whole text replaced with his name and his name only...This does sound alot like Jehoveh who declared himself as the one and only God.



(now I'm speculating, but it could be that Abraham and his clan, could have been missionary's sent out to spread the word, of the one God= monothesism, and from reading the bible this is something that met with much resistance even causing wars)

Also at this point the Annunakki had started taking less of an openly active role in the affairs of humans. If you read the Judeo hebrew bible, and you look at how Jehoveh was described, he really wasn't decribed as a person, he was described as a buring bush,
a loud trumpet like sound a fiery light moving across the skies that billowed with smoke and shook when it landed on the mount, and then their is Ezekeil's description. most of these discriptions of Jehoveh came from people who only saw him from a distance, and their discriptions are of fire smoke and loud noises and a moving object in the skies.

Jehovah's emasarries were described much like the annunnakki have always been described, as basically human looking. Now it seems that what people in the bible took as being jehoveh was actually the vehicle that he or other annunakki were flying around in.

now whether Abraham was a real person or not is not so important as the fact that in the bible it says that he came from Sumer. its not about superseding, or discrediting or invalidating the Bible, when it clearly chooses a divergent path from previous history.

My whole point is that it didn't diverge, the stories in the Judeo hebrew bible were clearly and provenly so taken from sources that predate it namely the summarains, just because the names of the various gods were taken out and replaced whith Monotheism's Jehovah and watered down in symbolism doesn't mean it diverged at all.

The judeo hebrew bible is the story of the jews and how they came to be Jehoveh's chosen people, its a story of a group of people. look at it in its rightful context and a whole other world opens up.

The hebrew bible is just one story of how a group of people came to be that group of people. They don't speak for everyone in the world; they didn't at that time, and in all honesty they don't to this day, its simply their story.

one could go back and read the stories of how the people of lets say Innana's cult center got to be her chosen people,it would be their story, it doesn't invalidate another story or make it less true.


my other point for bringing this up is because the summarians are pretty honest about the annunakki, the people were their servants, and the societal controls that they implemented on the human populations were very harsh and cruel at times, the annunakki ran the gamut from sinners to saints from despots to true humanitrians, there was good and bad and everything inbetween, but mostly are just slaves.

Now I'm not talking about Jesus Christ and his messege, but all one has to do is read the bible to see what a despotic, blood thirsty , Pyscho Jehovah in the bible is, It would be very hard to try to justify his behavior in a leader today, so why would anyone want to follow him now.

Thats why its really important to be able to see the gods or rather the annunakki for who they truly are and try to understand their intentions and motives.

I believe and know that we are spirtual beings, and maybe there is a supreme being out there, or many supreme brings, but the annunakki= Gods in the bible are not. We look simular to the annunakki so my guess is they are just a diffrent type or more advanced type of human that evolved on some other planet.




Quote:

only i dont see how the first hand accounts of matthew, mark, and luke(or john, i forget) become discounted, or the thousands of eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, or even the witnesses to his alleged ressurrection. if we wanted to assume that the claims by the sumerians are correct, i dont know for sure whether the belief in the annunnaki automatically refutes Jesus' legacy. the Bible would claim that the annunnaki were created things, they were present at the creation of man.. whether they want to claim for themselves the work or not, thats debatable..but i think there are enough similarites to suggest that there is a power struggle occuring, and not between enki and enlil, but between both of them and the creator.




I think Jesus christ was a man who existed and that he had a wonderful message. From what I know about Jesus he was an essene, and was also sent to the east where at that time buddhism had started to take hold, which really influenced Jesus, but my problem with Jesus is there is so little known about his life. Now there is some mystery concerning his birth, and although a virgin birth couldn't be explained by humans in a technological or scientific way way back when or even a hundred years ago, it can be explained now through artifical insemination, a procedure which many women have done nowdays.

Jesus even taught about reincarnation, but you won't find that in the bible, thats because many changes were made to the new testment in 325 A.D at the council of Nicea and continued into the 12th century. In the 12th century the 2nd synod(church council) they even added teaching that where never taught by Jesus such as the holy trinity, and they even rejected entire books,( which is why so little is known about jesus)The church destroyed many documents and records that contridicted the radical changes that they made to the new testment, some books such as the Apocryha still offer clues into Jesus life and teachings, if you haven't already read the Apocryaha its very interesting.

There is also a book called "Holy Blood Holy Grail", thats every interesting, that book claims that Jesus didn't die on the cross and actually had a family whoes blood line still exist today.

Also I thought I would add this, as you'll recall I mentioned that Marduke was exiled during the conflict and power stuggle , at one point I believe before the conflict ended he was holed up in the Great pyramid hiding out, he was actually trapped in it and cut off from food and water and almost died but his father and some other annunnakki intervined on his behalf and he was let out, when he finally came out , due to some happenings I can't go into details, but a whole ressurection ritual resulted from that incident, the essenes practiced a ressurrection ritual as part of their order.

I mention this because their is some speculation that the whole resurrection thing with Jesus was a ritual, ( you can take this or leave it as you please its speculation)


I'm not religious but I respect the true teaching of Jesus, he had a wonderful message

Quote:

if their were a God of creation, which was to manifest itself in the form of a man, would that oppose aliens coming from a distant planet to earth? IMO not neccessarily..unless the annunnaki claimed to have evolved...do you know what they claim on that issue? understand im being genuine, im not asking condescendingly...

its definately an interesting subject.. especially since the Bible claims that they will return, as Im sure Sitchin claims of the annunnaki. which if thats the case, it is worthwhile to consider the similarities between the two and how they should be associated



I don't have the answers anymore then you do, but it is very interesting, But then thats getting into spirtual matters, I think we need to look at our own human existence, anybody whoes ever had an out of body experience knows that we are spirtual beings, trapped in our physical material bodies, but if we are all spirtual beings and I believe we are then we have helped to create this world that we live in, each and everyone of us. maybe we are all a part of something bigger the annunakki included, but looking at the annunakki in a true light, they've done something harmful, ethically, morally wrong, they've helped to inslave other spirtual beings meaning us humans.

The summarians say that the annunakki come from a planet called Nibiru, I can only guess that they must have evolved, but that is just a guess and a speculation I don't know, according to the summarians the annunakki had great spirtual knowlege this is symbolized in the bible with the tree of life, but they barred this knowelege from humans to keep them inslaved.


have you ever wondered why every advanced technological society was formed or came together as a result of organized religion, or ever wondered why humans can create technology but don't have the moral or ethical capablities of handling it, which is why we are killing oursleves other animals, and our enviroment.

The summarians tell us how this came about, and it has to do with the annunakki, its my opinion that they've never really left and if they plan on coming back in droves I'm not so sure It will be a good thing for us, but on the other hand if we can see where the real problem lay then maybe it would be a good thing, the annunakki have stayed hidden as a third party influence for a reason, it seems that they can function more effectively that way, I don't see why they would come back openly. not to say that all annunakki are bad, its just that the more despotic element seems to have the most influence on humanity and human affairs. which is sad for us.



Again don't take my word for it, do your own research and see what you come up with and make up your own mind about this stuff. if nothing else it will be interesting




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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:49 PM

SERGEANTX


Is "Pirate" a prefix that means 'batshit insane'?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:08 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Is "Pirate" a prefix that means 'batshit insane'?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



It means whatever you want it to mean!!

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:24 PM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Is "Pirate" a prefix that means 'batshit insane'?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



Not necesarily. I dont agree with her most of the time, but she's a helluva lot saner than PirateNews.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:24 PM

PIRATEJENNY



For anyone out there interested in researching this topic a really Good book to get you started is a book called "The Gods Of Eden" by William Bramley, you can find it at your local book store the library might even have it, the biblography in the back is also good. another Good book is Passport to Magonia

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Friday, May 26, 2006 8:55 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by SonofMan:
thanks for the comments. there is so much to this entire study that it really goes beyond my personal knowledge..so i will have to look into it further before i am able to debate you productively. but i appreciate your perspective. i definately agree with most of your points, i am still of the belief though that the annunnaki were the fallen angels, and that Yahweh is the creator God manifest..but i surely have taken in what you have said, since in essence it doesnt neccessarily refute what i believe

since im of the believe that the b'nai elohim, or fallen angels, are the annunnaki, i wont dispute any of the events that happened under the early kings. the bible says that God had(has) a council of beings that were their when he made man, so there is definately room for collusion; much like God in the book of Ezekiel riding on the chariot, with his angel..which sounds for all the world like some kind of craft-if the angels were more intelligent, created beings..then IMO anyways, everything you say did in fact occur, since their are good angels that work for God, and bad angels that work for Satan. what the true intentions were of the Annunnaki is maybe what the debate centers around.

i wont argue since you are clearly more familiar with ancient Sumer than myself... i just have yet to establish whether the Bible steals from, contradicts, or truthfully reveals what was found on the tablets, it still seems to me(and what i read from the scholars) that the Bibles account is something of a "re-telling" of the Sumerians accounts, only from what was claimed to be a radically different perspective at the time. it is alleged that it was a clarification of the original myths..but then thats the christian perspective, so i wont debate you on that..since i really dont know for sure.

it appears as though many of the mesopotamian cultures had variations of the basic creation/flood stories..there is a degree of overlap; but while they share similarities, there are inherent differences in certain details that set them apart(like the cause of the flood, whether it was due to noisiness, corruption..and i believe there is another belief..but its been awhile). its hard to say which is the mis-informed, or distorted rendition, or what...understand that its purely out of my own bias that i choose to continue to support the claimed take of Yahweh..i tend to adapt information i find rather then completely re-structure my beliefs. i can understand why the Sumerian accounts would hold pre-eminence since they pre-date the Bible..my hold-up is Genesis tells that these early beings rebelled against God and helped to corrupt man, so im more or less questioning the credibility of the motives of Annunnaki, not your own research.

i apologize this isnt much of a rebuttal, i dont want to rehash, or beat a dead horse..it sounds like you are familiar enough with the Bible for me to avoid making totally repetitive statements; plus i agree that the annunnaki did exist, only that their intervention was nefarious

one bit of "evidence"(although circumstantial and anecdotel) that i choose to consider is the collection of conspiracy theorist data regarding a NWO. to me it seems, the Annunnaki, and their knowledge, form the bases of the occult beleifs that underly the secret societies such as the Thule society, the Skull and Bones, the Scottish Rite, and the illuminati-which i believe to be vying for world dominance. if the conspiracy theoriests are correct, its curious that the agenda is for a New World Order, when this essentially constitutes the system of the beast that the anti-christ reigns over. now UFOlogy also says that "aliens" support a one world government, and that they have engaged in technology transfers in exchange for a hybrid program or something...and that they are negotiating with the elite. now this seems a bit far-fetched, but if i am to include it.. if aliens are the annunnaki(and the fallen angels), then there seems to be an agenda forming that places lucipher, the fallen angels, the elite(government, corporations, media) at the top of the pyramid of knowledge, followed by us at the base. it fits together neatly...whether its accurate or not is still to be determined, but ive fused them all together for the sake of my own current world view

but i will look into all further, realize that i appreciate the information...i apologize for the rambling on my part, i just didnt entirely reject anything you said..well, except maybe Jesus' false death and bloodline..but thats something seperate. any how, ill let you know if i find anything controversial to add, otherwise, thanks friend but i still must agree to disagree

And Abram said unto himself 'Surely these are not gods (Enki and Enlil) that made the earth and all mankind, but these are the servants of Yahweh! Book of Jasher Chapter IX: 19.
http://www.logoschristian.org/yahweh.html




I like your ramblings it shows that you have an interested and curious mind and thats the important thing, my goal in life and in anything is not to be right or wrong, but to find the truth whatever it maybe or lead. and if I can spark someones curiosty in the process then its all worth it, it matters not to me what someone believes or don't believe I just feel that people should look at everything thats available and make up their own minds , just don't blindly except something you know what I mean.

I like what you said about the true intentions of the annunakki because in my personal opinion I think thats a big part of it.


Satan is one of the most fascinating charactors in the bible, as you know the Bible is allgoricle, have you ever heard of the cult of the snake, the Snake was Enki's symbol, so was the fish, Enki in summarian means Lord earth or Prince of Earth and it is Enki who is credited with helping to gentically help create man. The snake has always been revered and looked at as a symbol of knowlege and healing, in the bible it is the snake who tempts Eve with the fruit which symbolizes knowlege, even the symbol thats used in the medical field today with two snakes wrapped around a tree trunk goes all the way back to Sumer. The snake and the cult of the snake is is symbolised by the tree of life in the bible. which pre-dates the bible and goes back to ancient sumer.

But getting back to Lucifer and Satan and the snake. Enki who was given the titled of Lord earth,.... well it was a title in name only because it was really his half brother enlil, who was given the power, even though Enki was the 1rst to come down and help build settlements for the annunakki for the mining operations once Enlil came on board he took over the 1rst settlements in the Eridu (Iraq /Sumer) and gave Enki charge of the settlements in the Abzu which is what we now call Egypt and other parts of Africa, in the Egyption pantheon Ea/ Enki is known as Ptah, the snake was the logo of a group that became very powerful and influential in early human society, the group was a brotherhood whoes goal was the desimination of spirtual knowlege and the attainment of spirtual freedom. It sought to liberate the the human race from the bondage of the annunakki, the founder of this brotherhood was Enki and other like minded annunakki. The Brotherhood also imparted scientic knowlege, for this reason the snake became a venerated symbol for humans and according to biblicle and Egyptian text the object of custodial Annunakki hatred.

When Ea/Enki helped to create, engineer homo-sapiens/= man he intended that we be suited for labor, but at some point he changed his mind about using spirtual inslavement as a means. Despite Ea's and the brotherhoods good intentions, they clearly failed/ sumer/ Mespotamian and biblicle text relate that the snake was quickly defeated by other Annunakki fractions. The bible relates this when it tells us that the serpent in the garden of Eden was overcome before it was able to complete its mission and give Adam and Eve the fruit from the second tree. Ea who was symbolized as the snake was villanized by his opponents to ensure that he could never again secure a widespead following among human beings, Ea's title was changed from Prince of earth to Prince of Darkness and he was labled other horrible epiteths such as , Satan , Lucifer, the devil. etc., People were taught that everything bad on earth was caused by him and his intentions were to spirturally inslave humans.

This is not to say that Ea was portrayed by early summarians as a saint, He was not, he was decribed in summarian text as having many charactor flaws, by helping to engineer a work race Ea gave his enimies a powerful tool of spirtual repression, the Brotherhood of the Snake also branched out into other fractions known today as secret societies, and was also used as a tool of human repression it empowered his enemies with another powerful tool to use as a tool for human repression.

Its all very fasincating, for this reason I happen to think that Ea/ Enki =Satan/Lucifer and the whole Garden of Eden story is one of the most facinating,

just think history is written by the winners, Enki/ and the brother hood of the snake were the losers.. ( so to speak)and so they were twisted and villanized, but the story is there in summarian text

Although from reading summarin text it seems that some of Enki's motives was to be a pain to his half brother Enlil , who was his father's Anu's son by his offical mate, which is why Enlil was in charge and not Enki even though he was Anu's first born. Enlil and many other Annunakki looked at mankind as an un- moral creation that is why when Enki made it where mankind could procreate Enlil was against this,( although I'm guessing the reason was to have a greater number of workers in less time) Also when the annunakki started mating with human females this also caused alarm and problems for Enlil and annunakki society. What they did was morally and unethical (by genetcially altering or tampering with the simular hominds on earth and creating an intelligent worker race) if the worker race was to die out because they couldn't procreate they probably thought, Oh what the hell, but once that all changed do to Enki and a decesion made by other annunnkki it caused problems, mostly for us, in some ways I can understand Enlil's point, something happened that wasn't suppose to be, but once it did they enforced the decesion to keep humans inslaved and spirtually repressed., now that I have a serious problem with.


as for the flood the summarians say that it was caused by the planet Nibiru, which comes into our solar system every 3,600 years, its gravitational pull wrecks all kind of havoc on our planet.

The summarian story of the flood is pretty awesome, the details, and how the annunakki reacted is very interesting, They knew what was going to happen because they knew what kind of effets it would have on the polar caps, Enlil even thought it was great and hoped it would wipe out most of humanity. Not because he was evil, but because to him humanity was an immoral and un ethical creation something that should not have been.

as stories get past down from generation to generation, espeically when told in a diffrent language or even exsperinced on diffrent parts of the continent, something is bound to get lost in the translation, nor is every experience going to be the same. the thing is a flood did happen that was experienced by much of the world, the summarians as told to them by the annunnakki and their own experiences tell us how. and their explanation makes sense, its like I said you have to go back to the original source, the orginal source is Sumer, the cradle of civilzation where it all began.


as for Ufology, I've read quite a bit on that subject too, if we exist and the annunnakki exsist, surely others exist, most of the ones who have been reported as doing hybrid experiments with humans is the big eyed gray ones

There have also been some reports that human looking aliens (whom I'm guessing are annunannki have been reported with some of these big eyed gray ones) who knows its bizarre but it makes you wonder what in the hell is going on!!

if you are interested in wanting to know more about the brother hood of the snake , " The God's of Eden is a good book to start with

anyway I didn't mean to go on about Enki and the whole snake thing, it just that I find it to be one of the more fascinating aspects of this whole thing. and I couldn't help myself.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:00 PM

PIRATEJENNY




long Post




Quote:

but ive taken into consideration a lot of what your saying. for example, is it possible that Michael, the archangel of the Bible, was Enlil? im just curious, since it is him who casts Satan down to earth in Revelations.. on that spritual plane..their was a moral debate among the angels, or Annunaki, about their creation, as they say. is that fair to say? their are many references about angels, who left their domain, who will be resurrected for the judgement day. in Daniel, it says that Gabriel the archangel was resisted by the "prince" or angel of Persia, from delivering the message regarding persia and the end of the age; Michael actually had to come to his aid, but this is an example of competing factions within their realm.


well taking into account that that the biblical stories are but a condensed version of more detailed earlier Sumerian chronicles. the story of Micheal and Gabriel and the other arcangels sounds more like the story of Anu and Alalu , as I'm sure you are aware Anu was EnKi and Enlil's father, before the events on earth , that is before the Annunakki came to earth, the tale of events that happened on Nibiru.

written in the 1rst person in the Sumerian text, Enki himself tells a scribe to write down all that is said. so says the text and the scribe.

Enki tells of the Prior times before the Annunakki came to earth, when they themselves lived on Nibiru which Enki decribes as a great planet reddish in radiance,( in sumer the symbol for Nibiru was the cross and it was called the planet of the crossing) and goes on to tell that it has an elongated circit around the sun. he also states how for a time the planet is engulfed in cold and part of the time its heated by the sun and how it has a thick atomsphere thats fed constantly by volcanic activity, he also goes on to state how all manner of life is sustained by this atomosphere, he tells of its lush vegetation,and the water and land, he does state that after eons of time how their speicies sprouted( from this statement I'm guessing that they did evolve)..then he goes on to say, how rivalies occurred, encroachments happened, clashes occurred and how sticks became weapons, and how clans gathered into tribes, and then two great nations on Nibiru emerged, the nation of the North and the nation of the south and how they went to war with eachother and how weapons of terror and brillance was used, a war of( basically he's giving an account of events that happened on Nibiru)Enki goes on to say that a long war took place and there was death and destruction on both sides,and how for many circuts ,(years) there was desolation and how all life was diminished( sounds like some kind of nuclear war), then he goes on to relate how a truce was declared, then peace making, and how the two nations were united, and how they decided that there should be only one throne and one king to reign over all of Nibiru, they chose the King from the north and the Queen from the south they did this by lots so that it would be vice /versa if it went the other way. by marriage the two sides were united and ruled as one.

I thought it would be interesting to relate some of the history of Nibiru any who... the story goes on telling of customs and how diffrent rulers of Nibiru came to power, and some of their laws and customs concerning marriages, wives, sons and daughter to unify the people were established some of it is complicated which explains how birth right complications arose for example: apparently on Nibiru males were allowed more then one wife but they could only have one offical wife/Spouse the others were concubines, any son born to a wife was the legal heir, but if the offical wife was a half sister that son- 1rt son from that pairing was the legal heir. In Nibiru being of double seed meaning a son or daugher born between half brother an half sister was more important.

apparently at some point a breach in Nibiru'satomsphere happened that started causing it to screw up and it became colder and colder and how the harvest and crops started to diminish,

and how from circut to circut, the closer the planet came to the sun the heat grew stronger

he also goes on to tell how things got so bad, the population started to suffer


Apparently after much research was done , a council was held and a solution to the problem was found,he says there was two suggestions brought forth one was a metal ,gold, but it was rare on Nibiru, but beyonf the hammered belt,( Asteroid belt) it was abundant, apprantly gold when turned into a fine powder of somekind could be suspended into Nibiru's atomosphere and could heal this breach.
After some Nibiruian shars (years or seasons) one Nibiru year is 3,600 earth years the campaign to get the gold was ready but before that happend Enki goes on to relay how the old problems and rivilies started up again.

well getting back to the story at hand the paralles of the archangels etc...

Anu who was of royal Nibiruian blood but not in line to the throne upsurped a relative a cousin I think who was on the throne, the kingship of Alalu, the story goes on to tell how Anu did this, Alalu and some of those Loyal to him escaped with their life in a celestial boat, headed for earth. which in Nibiruian is called Ki.

The story of Alalu doesn't stop there, once on earth Alalu and his followers were not allowed to come back to Nibiru, Alalu however did confirm that Gold was in abundance on earth, and it should be stated tht Alalu and his followers were actually the 1rst Anunakki to set up camp on earth, soon afterwards Ea/ Enki and the rank and file Annunakki followed to take charge and get the mining operations going and set up settlements some years later Alalu's and his son and some of those loyal to him tried to take over what the Sumerians called the bond Heaven-earth( the place where the vehicles took off to go into space) and caused a conflict during one of Anu's annual visits to earth. It got nasty with If I'm correct Alalu taking over the bond heaven- earth or shutting it down, anyhow the rebellion was crushed and Alalu captured, Anu and the council of the anunakki decided to let him live but he would be exiled on Lahmu(Mars)until he died.

Alalu and Anu were enemies, because Alalu had been forcfully dethroned of his kingship on Nibiru. His loyal followers who supported him, and triedto get the kingship back, but he
Of course that is just a sumary the story.

The Sumerian text goes on to tell many things such the Iggi on Lahmu( the annunakki space staion on Mars) the Iggi were like a branch of the annunakki military or astronaunts who were in charge.Also Enki and the other Annunakki's landing on earth setting up of the mining camps creating the homo sapiens and much much more. Enki also goes on to tell about Earth and Nibiru's cosmology how they formed, its all interesting and scienfically makes sense.


I did look up some the symbols and discriptions that identify Micheal and Gabriel and compared them to Enki and Enlil and heres what I came up with.


Gabriel- Prince of change Archangel of the Annuciation. One of the two highest angels, the ruling prince of Paradise, he sits to the left of God, he is the angel of annuciation, ressurection, mercy, vengence, death, revelation, hope, his planet is the moon, his color blue,, he rules water and the west, angel of visions, magick, Clairvoyance, scrying and astral travel, herbal medicine.

Micheal- Prince of slendor and wisdom, dispenser of the forces of darkness. Ranks as the greatest of all angels in Jewish, Christian and Islamic writtings one of the four archangels who surrounded the throne of God, he stands on the right, ruler of Mercury, Prince of the presence;angel of repentance, rightiousness, mercy, vengence,sanctifcation, and the leader of God's host he is called the prince of light, they go on to say he the angel of truthfulness, intelligence, knowlege, etc.....



Some of the discriptions of Gabriel does sound somewhat like Enki- water, and the moon was identified with Enki, the moon was his and Anu's symbol

and some of the discriptions of Micheal does sound like Enlil, The leader of God's host for example Prince of vengence and mercy, Enlil was said to be hard ,cruel and strict, but that he could also be fair and just.

but the story of the fallen angels sounds like the story of Alalu.

but it is true that Enlil was given the Anu-ship to rule earth by Anu his father, it was Anu who ruled on Nibiru and it was through him that offical orders were given.

because the bible is condensed and symbolic its possible that they could be incorporating the personalities of more then one annunakki into the archangels, much like they did with Jehovah in many instances. who knows




Quote:

what im wondering is what does the Bible actually mean is happening in the garden of Eden, you know before the deception? the Annunaki claim to have engineered us from pre-existent earthly bi-peds is that right? im wondering, because according to the Bible, Man existed as something before we "fell", and according to Paul, sin entered the world through Adam, and death through sin, so death became a curse on earth; if im not mistaken


well sumerian text does say that there was some type of simular bi-ped or homind already on earth, that they used and mixed with the essence of annunakki who themselves were simular and created homo-sapiens, it also goes on to say that the 1st humans were bred in the wombs of annunakki women. Apparently humans could be bred that way because we were already simular to the annunakki (modern scientist have bred other animals this way for example a Zebra bred inside a horse.) and that the 1rst human beings created could not procreate. In various Sumarian works they show pictures of hairy animal like men, whom the sumerians clearly distingished themselves as being diffrent from

Scientist say that the appearance of man homo-sapien emerged suddenly, evolution doesn't work that fast, not without help, and there is a missing link.

As for sin entering the world through Adam, the old Testment tells us that Adam was created to be a servant of God

The Sumerian text spells it out more clearly!!

Ouote: sumerian text

When the Gods like men, Bore the work and suffered the toil , The toil of the Gods were great, the work heavy, the distress much,

The for the Anunakki as they carried out the building, excavation, and mining operations on earth, a solution was needed and it was found, by creating a worker, homo-sapiens

Once humans were created the sumerian text goes on to tell, how humans did all the work and served the annunakki, it also goes on to tell and describe the harsh and cruel conditions and the genocidial control measures that were carried out on the humans population.


Adam an Eve (humanity).

But there was a 1rst man The model man created s name was Adapa, whom Enki used some of his own d.N.A or essence to help create, and treated like a son.. and taught him in the ways of the annunakki

It says in the Old testament that as long as Adam and Eve obeyed the commandments of God and accepted their servant status they could live in bliss, however, there was one unpardonable sin, they must never seek certain types of knowlege, they could eat the fruit from any tree except one

{i]( remember the bible is symbolic and allogrical)

Until the serpent came along and convinced Eve to partake of the fruit from the tree of knowlege of good and evil.

Its all right there in the old testment,

It states what Adam's sin was...
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Humans with the assistance of Enki and his group began to seek out knowelge,espeically spirtitual knowlege, this alarmed the the Gods in the old testament it says:

And the Lord God said

"Look, the man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil: and now, what if he puts forth his hand , and takes also of the tree of life and eats, and lives forever"

That is a direct quote from the bible.

(there is web site where you can get the quotes)
sorry I didn't post the link


The above passage echo's an important truth!! a true understanding of ethics, integrity and justiceis required to gain spirtual freedom and immortality.

The annunakki didnot want mankind to travel the road to spirtual recovery. Without a foundation in ethics, spritual recovery is impossible,the reason for this is obvious...

The annunakki wanted slaves, its difficult to make slaves of people who maintain their integrity and sense of ethics.

It also becomes impossible when those same indivdiuals are unshaken by physical threats due to a reawakened grasp of their spirtual immortality.

It was/is the Annunakki intentions to permantely attach spirtual beings to human bodies,( and unfortunately so far it seems they have succeeded.) Early mans attempt to escape this spirtual bondage by eating from the biblical "trees"/ knowelege, therfore had to be stopped.

The Old testment says:

The Lord God sent him(Adam) forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken, so he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden Cherubim(angels) and a flaming sword which turned every way, to sheild the way to(prevent access) to the tree of life.

The flaming sword symbolizes the measures that that annunakki undertook to ensure that genuine spirtual knowelege would never become available to the human race.

To further prevent such acess humans were condemned to an additional fate.

The Old testment says:

And to Adam, he (God) said, Because you have listened to the urgings of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to, saying , you shall not partake of it: cursed is the ground for you , in toil will you eat its yield for all the days of your life, thorns too, and thistles will it bring forth to you as eat the plants from the feild, by the sweat of your face will you eat bread, until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken , for dust you are and dust you will return


Now one only has to look around to see how true the above quote is:

The effective way to deal with Adam and Eve's (so called sin...Not!!) was to make mankind live our entire lives and die without rising above the level of material existence, such an existence would leave little time for seeking out the understanding needed to become spirtually free.



As evidence by the brotherhood of the snake,early in our history some type of genuine knowlege of the spirt was available;however,it got hopelessly twisted, manipulated and boggled down in a mish mesh of symbolism and mysticism that has become impossible to deceipher,if any coherent bits of truth did managed to escape it is now worthless to the majority of humans on this planet. whatever bit of spirtual knowelege that survived also got twisted up with a Supreme being or God/gods,(Religion) leaving mankind to believe that spirtual recovery came from and can only be sought through a supernatural being.




(Now this is my humble opinion on the matter, I say opinion because you know everyone has one doesn't make it right or wrong )
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Its a fabrication that has only helped to keep mankind in a permanant slave state. ( believing that spirtual salvation comes from or through a supreme supernatural being) if one does not know that they are a slave how can they do anything to change it, its an effective tool. or looking to the slave master to free oneself, instead of taking or seeking the measures to free oneself.

I don't believe it was (Adam)mankind that fell, I don't consider seeking knowelege to free oneself from slavery and bondage as a failing, or a fall from grace, I believe it was the Annunakki who fell when they used spirtual repression to inslave other spritual beings.

I also believe that death became a curse for mankind because of our slave state, because we didn't get to eat from the tree of life,( we didn't get the spirtual knowelge to know our true selves) and our physical material existence became our life, we don't see ourselves or identify ourselves as immortal spirtual beings even though we are,
and so this is how we live our lives,killing ourselves, other animals and our enviroment, and toiling for a material existence. We fear death because we don't know anything else except this life, death became a curse.



Also part of the knowelge could also have something to do with a longer life-span.

There is a Sumerian story about a half Annunakki half human man named DurEnKi,(I know the spelling is wrong) who went in search of to get the secret to the long life of the Anunakki,

Annunakki have long life spans compared to us humans, if we are a part of them and from all reports we are then through our genetic make-up we are probably also capable of a much longer life-span but clearly this part of our makeup was not given to us,or rather repressed through genetic manipulation, but through knowlege, some of which we are only now being made aware of we could also aquire the knowelge needed for a longer physical life-span,

Interjecting M.P.O (however I personally don't see that happening until we have spirtual knowlege,I just don't think we will be able to evolve or move foward until we have the ethics and morals needed to advance. One sure sign of our continued slave-state is our dependance on religion.


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anyways i found this site - http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/gardenofeden.htm - which claims that Satan actually deceived Eve and slept with her, and subsequently became the father of Cain, Satans bloodline. and then the fallen angels later, of genesis 6, interbred aswell with daughters of Men, and had offspring called the Nephilim(fallen ones), which was an attitional attempt at subverting Mans potential, and then preventing the bloodline that would create Jesus. if Jesus exists, then the fact that we need to be redeemed suggests that we had existed possibly in a different state pre-fall, or pre-deception. thats whats soo curious..

is it possible for us to reconcile the two stories? if not, tell me what specifically..and maybe we can work it out.



Adapta the 1rst actual man who was of the bloodline of Enki himself and reportedly lived like 900 earth years or more due to the annunakki gene pool or genetic manipulation who knows but the annunakki themselves are reported to have really long life-spans.

many annunakki, had off-spring with humans, these children of annunakki and humans were granted kingship by various annunakki of their cult-centers, cities, thats why its said to be of royal blood is very important

Also it was the human servants who directly served the annunakki that later became the priest class,

if Jesus is a desentant of Adapa then I guess he would be related to Enki. which could possibly have something to do with why he is identified with one of Enki's symbols, the fish and of course the cross symbolized the planet Nibiru


Nephilim, doesn't mean fallen ones, I think the literal hebrew translation is- those who from heaven came down to earth, or those who came down to earth.

Its reported in summerian text that many of the lesser Annunakki, by lesser I mean those who were not of the council of twelve,were given cult centers in farther away lands to the north etc, so judiasm and Christanity having somethings in common with ancient gaelic religion, isn't farfetched, you have to figure if the Annunakki are responssible for this thing we call religion and helping to create mankind, it makes sense that no matter who established what cult center/ or ritual customs/religion they are all going to have some commonality even if its just the Annunakki themselves.
I'm assumming.




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Friday, June 2, 2006 11:26 PM

PIRATEJENNY


like I said it matters not to me what someone believes or not believe , because in the end people are going to believe what they want, so I'm perfectly ok with that.



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Now, if i am to believe the testimony of Jesus(God himself, incarnate), then he was the fullfillment of the Law through his descendents. Jesus fullfilled Old Testament, Jewish prophecy...so we have Jesus' testimony that the accounts are sufficiently accurate and verified. Noahs descendents chose to dis-associate themselves with the culture that was bred out of Lumeria and Sumer(or whatever pre-flood empires), and then later the Babylonians and Persians, and every other belief that wasnt centered on the creators life-force. the divergence in beliefs didnt occur due to loose mis-interpretations and in-grained fabricated myths...there was an actual seperation of realitie.




ok I'm not trying to argue with you but I have to ask, where is the seperation of the realities,because its a known fact that in the old testment the stories were taken from early sources namely the summarians, that can't be ingnored no matter how much one might want to, and if that is so, and it is, then it can't be ignored that the jewish hebrew faith is based on that information, nor can it be disputed that in the New testment that the same God that Jesus believed in is the same surmarian Gods,( because Jesus was a Jew, not a christian and practiced the hebrew jewish faith) also if God is an annunakki and Jesus is an incarnante of God, if you believe that, then what is he a reincarnate manifistation of an annunakki????,...


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the idea of monotheism, of one God that was the creator of everything, including the Annunaki and their planet Nubiru, is pretty exclusive to the Abrahamic religions.


you can cross refrerance the Sumer Gods/ Annunakki with other cultures, its been done for example, Enki/sumer= Ptah in Egyptian..and it goes on from the

Marduk/ Sumer= Ra/ Egyptian = Apollo/ Greek and so on and so on

so the God's of sumer are not Exclusive to the Abrahamic religions

can you please clarify this statment for me, you bring up monotheism ,(which is one God), but then you bring up Annunakki which is polytheism( more then one God) but say its monetheism and is exclusiive to Abrahamic religions...which makes no sense to me..... I'm just trying to understand

Polythesim (the belife in more then one God) was the practice of every culture until monethism came, which happened with the advent of Jehovah at about (2000 B.Cto 1500 B.C) and Mohammed and Islam which came around (570 A.D) The koran / Allah and Jehovah is suppose to be the same one God , out of the 5 major religions practiced today, only 3 are monotheisatic ( Judaism,Christanity, and Islam) which still all is alluding to Jehovah- which comes from the sumarians( so we are still talking about annunakki( the source of Jehovah is sumer and the annunakki)

everything else is still polytheism ( Budhhism not based on a god) every other religion is polytheisic in nature.

its a known fact that God the creator in the old-testment is based off of sumerian stories(annunankki/ polytheism) and were condensed to fit monotheism, not the other way around,( that issue isn't up for dispute ,so what supreme being are you referring to because it trully doesn't exist in the old-testament.

are you saying that when monotheism/ one God Jehovah=supreme being came that there was a seperation from that point on=

If that is what you are saying there is no proof of that what-so-ever , from all available evidence provenly so its the opposite. the Gods/ annunakki were all incorporated into the one God to support monotheism, not the other way around.

Also the orginal story of Noah is the Epic of Gilgamish in the sumerian/Mespotamia/ babylonian ,Noah seperating himself from Lumeria is doubtful/ because the real Noah is Gilgamish


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the early cultures or civilizations, way before Judiasm and the isrealites had any prominance, although intelligent, were corrupt, degradive and morally lost people; we're talking human sacrifices, sodomy, and even beastiality! the claim that Judeo-Christianity are the root of spiritual repression is a false premice, when Man, from the get-go, after gaining knowledge of Evil*, was again later decieved by the Watchers, the early influences of human culture. now youll admit that the Annunaki made slaves of us-well that wasnt our original destiny. and i think the Annunaki, since as the book of Enoch(the 7th patriarch from Adam), and the books of Jubilee, among the others of the OT state, they had a motive to claim universal sovereighnty, since 2/3 of them officially chose to rebel from God.



Maybe its the word God that has me confused? obviously when you say God your not talking about the annunakki(the Gods that people speak of when they talk about religion)

How do you define God/ are you talking about spiturality, like for example the power of everything of all creation all energy - not a being but a force or energy? because thats something totally diffrent then religion or God/gods , at least to me

you make this statment


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the early cultures or civilizations, way before Judiasm and the isrealites had any prominance, although intelligent, were corrupt, degradive and morally lost people;


But this is true of all religions/ all peoples and all cultures, this is espeically true of the major religions practiced today= Judiasm, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, even Budhhism,


If the annunakki/ created this thing we call religion, if it is based off of their laws, teaching, oppression, customs, then surely it makes sense that people would be in the state that we are currently in, which is pretty much what you described,


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if the Bible was meant to suppress people, if that was its original intent, then they sure did a horrible job of it! why in the heck would they create a standard, as you said, that sets a persons hopes beyond this physical world? if the religion and the Bible were the culprit behind this global conspiracy, why are christians(true christians), constantly the ones opposed to the establishment NWO agenda? wouldnt there be unquestioned bias towards the Gospils, rather then a secular heirarchy intent on discrediting Christianitys foundations?? the Bible speaks of gentiles, and it speaks of Jews who are "of the synogogue of Satan"..which among people who are indifferent to God and Jesus, there are people actively promoting and fullfilling the role of the anti-christ. when i see the current state of global politics and human consciousness, im not seeing people in the image of Jesus at the reigns of control; frankly im seeing neo-pagan and occultic inbred degenerateness(not to be accusatory)



its not that the bible itself is or was meant to suppress I don't believe that. I look at the bible for what it is, its a book documenting historical events of a group of people.

Also if you look at the sumerian text,its telling the history of a people but also of mankind, It differs in the bible in that its simply laying down what happened, there is no bias , its not telling people what to think or how to behave its just giving the events. the bible is diffrent in that its more of an edict, the orginal sumerian stories tell us about the annunakki what they did and how they were in reading such information, one can access alot about the information, its mot telling you what to think about the annunakki it simply telling you about them, based off of their deeds and their behaviors and events one can draw their own conclusions by the effects of their actions without out being told what to think about their actions.

The Bible is diffrent in that it tells people what they should think and how they should act, and if they don't what punishments will be metted out, The actions of the beings in the bible even if they are not sane or ethical, its still telling you what you should think about them.

you've read the bible so you know what I'm talking about,

In orginal sumerian text, many of the behaviors of the annunakki, were cause of great concern for the peoples, many of the punisments metted out to them cruel, and the people although out of fear often obeyed what was commanded of them, they were not happy, many of the actions were seen for what they were ( sick or rather wrong)

In the bible, blood thirsy and unethical actions by monotheistic /Jehovah actions seemed to be over looked and ignorned as God's will behavior that anyone can see is cruel or physchopathic for example the story of Abraham being tested to sacrifice his son, is looked at as devotion, and yet this is what many people pray to every night.( its sick)


Many people, espeically the people who are in it don't truly understand or grasp that religion is a tool,( there are many reasons for this, most people are not educated on their own religion, or others religion, most people are born into it and its part of their culture and they don't question it, and its a very effective tool, many people assume or belive because they are religious that they act in moral or ethical ways, but thats not the reality, religion and ethical or moral behaviror have nothing to do with one another. alot of the ethics and morals that religous people think they are displaying is often at best more of a self-rightious kind edict. most people don't have a firm grasp of ethics and have not been schooled in it, and they think knowing right from wrong is enough, but sadly it isn't, the study of ethics is not easy or easy to grasp. Withoug a true working knowlege of ethics most people are lost.

I'm just going to throw some things out there.
for example many people think or feel that homo-sexality is wrong, and thats ok..we have free will we are welcomed to feel and think anyway we please, but that doesn't give another person the right to punish, or impose their personal views on somebody else just because they feel or believe that. Many people who are religious feel because their religion says that something is wrong that they have the right to impose their belifes or their will onto othere. They often believe they are acting in a moral or ethical way when infact they are not. If they don't like something or agree with something or their religion doesn't then they have the right to impose that view onto themselves, but not anyone else, that is ethical behavior.

its the same with abortion, even if your religion or faith tells you something is wrong, you do have the right to impose that view onto yourself , but not onto anyone else. you don't have to like it, you just have to respect someone elses right to practice their own free will.


or lets say a business man or group of business men who own a water company and they knowingly sell tainted water to the public. They have the right to drink tainted water all they want, but they don't have the right to sell it to the public/ community

for ethics to work it must work within a confounds of justice,and laws but not at the exspense of the individual so long as they aren't hurting anyone but themesleves.

religious ethics don't and are not bound in Just institutions and often comes at the exspense of free will not as a benifit.



many people who are religious claim to live an ethical or moral life, but how many unethical thoughts do they have everyday, and how do they particpate in unethical behavior or fien ingnorance as an excuse... or participate in unethical institutions and in doing so keep them functioning, how many people look at someone of another race, or ethnic, or cultural background ,and condemme, or dehumanize them because they benifit at someone elses exspense somehow from doing so, never relating to another person as one spirtual being to another, most of us particpate in some type of unethical behavior everyday myself included, and never make any attempts to address it, or change it, or speakout, or stand up or do something about it. Some of us aren't even aware that we are part of it, or particpate in it. It takes courage and it takes responssiblity, and energy and effort to do those things.

sadly the majority of religions on this planet instill a lack of respossiblity, a lack of courage, instead of letting people choose what is right it tells them what is right and how they should behave and whats going to happen to them if they don't. It also teaches people that they are powerless and can only be helped by outside forces instead of their own efforts, it teaches people that they are unethical and immoral and can only be redeemed with outside influence, and it also encourages people not to think for themselves and not to seek out learning or knowlege, and not to question, by doing so it keeps people in a virtual slave state, always looking outside for the answer to the solution and never at themselves. They can leave it in God hands, instead of doing somehting about it themselves. leaving it in God/gods hands is much easier then doing something about it. The human race has been paying a hefty price for that way of thinking(slave mentality) for thousands of years/ all one has to do is look around to see the effects.

thoughts are things they are real things, and powerful things,without them we could not fuction, we could not create anything and look at what we create( its sad) many people feel helpless, they don't know what to do, or how to do anything or feel powerless to do anything, but its really as simple as changing ones thoughts, if a person fears something or a person or thing, learn about it, confront it, change the way you think and interact, people usually fear things they don't understand, and being ignorant only helps to feed the ills of our world. each individual can start changing the world just by changing their thoughts, its simple and yet its not simple or easy. but it can be done.

It has nothing to do with the bible being bad,

its not that Christians are behind some global conspiracy, the majority of true christians do not run the institutions that can effect masses, many true christians are working within the system, but unfortunantly they are still working with a system that is a tool of repression.

When the Council of Nicea made the decesion to deify Jesus Chirst, and turn him into a God, and changed the true message of Jesus Christ, they turned the christian religion into a tool of spirtual repression.



A true way to redemption comes from taking respossiblity, not waiting for some supreme being to come in and save the day

I'm not even religious and don't practice any religion, I do study relgions as a hobby, I just go by the information thats available.

Who knows it could all really be some conspiracy to discredit christanity, I don't know, we all have to find our own answers, but I defintely think that having an open dialogue, and discussing these issue can only help, not hurt

I'm just going by what the sumerians said, they layed out a story in which beings from another planet inslaved us, they told of how this came about and how they continue to do it, if the stories are true then they shed light on some important truths, and in doing so by dealing with those truths they show us a way and give us clues in ways in which we can help ourselves and our situation.

If the sumerian stories are not true, then what does it matter, I don't think by acting in a respossible and ethical manner can harm us, if anything it can only help.

speaking for myself, I'm not going to sit around waiting for Jesus or the annunakki to come down and save me...I'm going to try to act in respossible and ethical ways and do and do it myself because I can. I believe we all can, if we choose to. Because we are all more then these bodies we animate we are spirtual beings

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 10:50 PM

PIRATEJENNY


well there is certainly nothing wrong with disagreeing and I do see or rather understand what you are saying.

but that is the diffrence, I'm not going on belifes or rather I'm basing my belifes on facts, or available information.

your saying the God of Christanity is the creator of all things. or rather you are saying thats what you believe.

I'm simply saying based on factual information that is not so.( its not a point I'm going to argue because there is no need) I'm stating as a fact based on avalible information, that the Annunakki are the God/Gods of christianty.

Some people could be slapped in the face with the truth and still believe what they want, and thats O.K by me, its not my goal to try to change anyone's belife , I'm just searching for the truth or true information and thats my only purpose.


The concept of a creator of everything is not hard for me to grasp, ..its just that it can't be grasped within the context of the informaton in the Christian religion or faith..not if its based on the bible because there is no such source, the hebrew/christians clearly and provenly got there info and Gods from the sumerian..thats a fact.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm getting from you, is that there is a God creator of everything who exist seperate from the annunakki... who also created the annunakki...unfortuantely based on the information which is in the bible and sumarian text, this just isn't true..the God in the bible is indeed the annunakki, if there was some doubt about this based on the information I wouldn't hesitate to say so, but it just isn't so..


I'm not saying that such a being couldn't exist or doesn't exist, I'm just saying its not the God in the bible, because they are clearly talking about the annunakki.

I would like to understand what you personally mean, by God the creator of everything, but so far your not being to clear on your own concept( doesn't mean I have to agree or that you have to agree with me its just about trying to understand where someone else is coming from)


you bring up, the source of good and evil, and knowlege and that it was the knowlege to rape, kill etc.

I urge you to read the orginal surmerian story, for your own benifit, because that wasn't the issue at all. the knowlege that humans sought had nothing to do with good or evil. it has to do with ethics and morals, and spirtual information. Hence if one acts in immoral or unethical ways but don't know or have an understanding that they are doing so, then what hope do they have of correcting such behavior..hence is where the part knowing good from evil comes.

The story of the Garden of eden is how through knowlege mankind tried to free themselves from the yoke of annunakki bondage. Which is why the annunakki did everything in their power to stop mankind from gaining knowlege.( its the same story told in the bible, unfortantly the bible condensed the story down to symbolism and alligory and left out the details that made it coherent)

you also say that the real tool was the belife to lead people into the belife that they didn't need God...

But that is not true= all one has to do is look around to see how untrue that is, religion and the belife in God is thriving, and has since mankind has existed. Look at all the religions and institutions that have sprung up and flourished as a result of religion and the belife and need to believe in God/ gods


IMO....so far it seem the opposite of that statement is true, the belife and dependence on God/ gods have not stopped people from acting out in immoral or unethical ways, actually religion and the worship of God/ gods have created more problems and issues for people to act out in immoral and unethical and degrading ways.( I don't say this to be mean I say it based on history and what I see every single day)) religion does not teach knowelge or ethics or morality, religion is and adherance to the laws of God/gods and his/their will.

based on the information and research I've done, I believe that the need for God/Gods does us more harm then good.

If what the sumarians say is true...I just don't think that being slaves is a good thing.(IMO)




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if Christians are shown to be irresponsible, as anyone can be, it is due to a lack of understanding of the scriptures, or ignorance..not out of flawed fundementals.


Christians are people like anyone else they aren't any better or worse then anyone else, lack of information or knowlege breeds ingnorance for anyone, as for the fundamentals being flawed I can't say... it depends on their design and intentions. There are some good tenents in the christian faith, but all religions have some good tenets in them mixed up with the other. It can be compared to a lie with some truth mixed into it. Those lies are always the easiest to believe. Even if you mix in some spirtual truths or ethics into something thats purpose is to be used as a tool of repression its going to have little effect. Like I said there are many good things in the christian religion but without a true understanding or working knowlege of the information such as ethics and morals its of little use.

Quote:

if there was no afterlife, we just lived and died, what responsibilities would people undertake? if we die physically, but our soul transcends, and no authorative God exists, then what incentive do we have to progress spiritualy, or act morally, if judgement and reprocussions didnt exist?


Your assuming that no judgment exist. Perhaps the greatest judgment comes from oursleves. Anyone who has ever had an out of body experience knows that the spirt/ soul/ personality trancends the physical body..unfortantly not everyone has had this experience while still being alive. and while out of body exsperience isn't that uncommon its certainly not common.

I have personally had this experience once/ but unless its something you have personally experiemced its hard to take someone elses word for it.

It seems that at one time there was a geniune knowelege/ science of the spirt, that was avilable/ but that annunakki crushed any attempts for humans to get a hold of it, as symbolized in the bible with God barring Adam and Eve eating from the second tree.

Spirtuality is not religion and doesn't exist because of religion, it exist because we exist. just because some spirutal information became involved with religious doctrine most people think they are exclusive to oneanother, this isn't so.

Why assume there is no after life, from my own experiences there is, but now we are getting into spirtual matters. and we would 1rst have to look at why spirtual beings would want to animate or be in physical material bodies. look around what is it that we do as human beings,??? we experience and create things that manifest in the material world, when our spirt leaves our bodies and this can happen while still alive/ or when the body dies, our reality is so diffrent I don't know if there are words to describe such a state..I could try, but feel it would be a waste)
from the impressions that I get the spirt or soul has this sort of need to be, and desire to experience things and create things in a material existence, thats why what we create is so important because its a reflection of our spirt of who we are.

Some people think that as spirts we reincarnate and choose who we are and our life exsperieces, but thats not the impression I get, because the spirt doesn't think in the same way it does when its in the physical,( and I don't just mean human bodies because there are other intelligent beings besides humans) the things that seem to matter to people don't really matter to our spirt, its more of a needing to be and experience, not to say that the spirt is totally devoid of choice.

When we reincarnate from one material body to another the spirt becomes enmeshed, but is still fully capable of knowing itself to be a spirtual being, this can occur through remembering past lives and in having out of body exsperiences, or being taught about the spirt in a true or scientic way.

you ask ..if there was no afterlife, we just lived and died, what responsibilities would people undertake?

because of human spirtual repression, people have become obessed with death and fear it, most people spend more time worrying about dying then living their lives. Death is not important its what we do in the between time that matters.

through spirtual repression we've helped to create a sort of hell on earth, that feeds into us forsakening this world for some life of splendor when we die.. which isn't exactly true, when we die the spirt returns to being in its regular state (while its a wonderful state to be in and we can even create things with thoughts the spirt itself is sort of a thought form or energy, its not the same as experiencing things in the material) nor do all spirtual beings reincarnate but thats something I have only the vaguest of impression about.

The spirt just needs to be, and to create in the physical world, that in itself is enough and is its own gift, if what we create is in harmony,and balance then material exsistence can be its own reward.

( whats happening to us on earth isn't in harmony or balance but we still experience in the material) by knowing oursleves as spirtual beings and reincarnatinting from one life to another , just think how that would change how people would interact with one another and the world we inhabit , knowing that they themselves could be a cripple, or diseased, or born in a part of the world with less resources, that they could be any race, or ethncity, nor would they fear death people would start to relate to eachother and the world at large in a much more sane and ethical manner that would benifit everyone and everything on the planet.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that people would automatically turn into saints, we still have free will, but we would be able to find solutions to our problems and communicate them, no one would be able to fien ingorance as an excuse and everyone would have to take responssiblity for their own actions truly knowing and understanding right from wrong,and reap what they sow.

The results of the benifits from the responssiblites we would undertake, would be boundless and could only help with our evolution and growth as spirtual beings on this planet and beyond.





Quote:

i know why true Christians dont commit horrendous sins, since they are to be God fearing. what would prevent someone otherwise?? some would claim Man created "religion" for this purpose..i say God designed us with the ability to know better, and our test in life is to prove it.


Christians are people like anyone else, and act out in bad and good ways intentionally or unintentionally just like anyone else, true or untrue. While I'm sure true christians strive for peace and harmony,and thats commendable, they are still spirtual beings with free will, and they still operate in the bounds of a corrupt and repressed system.

Any behavior born or bred out of fear is not genuine nor is it healthy and its bound to fail and cause problems and issues. Just the fact that you mention acting as a result of fearing God should send up red flags and shed some light into the nature of your belifes. Fear is the orginal sin,fearing God/gods or anyother being is not right, and to live in fear is degrading.

People don't need to fear anything to live a decent healthy and ethical life, they need knowlege and understanding and courage.


I believe that if what the sumerians say is true, that the annunakki helped our evolution along by genetically alterning us to make us more intelligent,( although at what end of the specturm of intelligence we are makes you wonder) they certainly didnot give us their full intelligence) if that is true, then it is so; however, intelligence breeds complexity ( and complex issues and systems) from all evidence we don't seem to genuinely understand , or rather its not so much about knowing right from wrong but more about knowing and understanding how to apply right from wrong within those complex issues and systems.
No matter the current level of our intelligence we are capable of learning and evolving through knowlege...All Knowlege, but most importantly spiritual knowlege seems to be the key ingredient needed for the evolution, proliferation and exspansion and survival of our speices.

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