REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

'It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.'

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, April 3, 2006 14:00
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Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:50 AM

CHRISISALL


-Chilling line from a rather obscure B-movie.

"Now America's just another broke, ex-superpower, looking for a handout, and wondering why." - from a TV show I kinda liked.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same." - some guy named Snake.

Where are we gonna be by 2020?

Science fiction has foretold scenarios of broad Third-Worldism across the planet, loss of civil liberties, and self-destruction.

Then there's Star Trek.

What's you realistic guess as to what our economy, state of military engagement, and level of basic freedom will be by the beginning of the third decade of the 21st Century?

All replies will remain confidential, and shall become the sole property of Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:39 AM

FANTASTICLAUGHINGFAIRY


By 2020? In would assume - unless something pretty drastic happened - things will be similar to how they are now - but probably running low on fossil fuels - what's the betting we (and by we- I mean America - not the UK - we're better) dig up the Arctic/Antarctic? (I can never remember which on it is). Or we'll just have another war and see where that gets us.
There is the issue of where we'll be in 100/200 yrs time though. It may seem a long way away - but what will happen? Will we have destroyed the earth (possibly been plunged into another ice age?) or did we notice what we were doing in time - and go all Greenpeace? Well, you never know. Should be interesting though.

...and we will call it...this land...

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:45 AM

CHRISISALL


I'm betting it will be just like in Dark Angel (big surprise from me there), with some sort of surveilance (maybe not hoverdrones, but...) and hopefully there'll be an 'Eyes Only' we can count on for the truth...

*Hoping he's very wrong* Dystopic Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:05 AM

MATTCOZ


Yeah, when I think "rather obscure B-movie" I think Terminator 2.

Star Trek's 21st century future is actually pretty dark, with hundreds of millions of people dying in WW3 and society pretty much falling apart. Things got better only after we made first contact in 2063.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:23 AM

ZISKER


If the Corporations win it's in their best interest for us to die slow deaths as soulless drones not in a war-torn world, but one of peace where just enough people get that carrot to keep the rest of us on our spinning-mouse wheels.

But it could just be me.

Fruit's Oaty Bar! Is a person from the mouse! Fruit's Oaty Bar! Makes your bust from yours female shirt! Continuously eats them! Let them cause you to be surprised!

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:02 AM

CITIZEN


Maybe not 2020 but mid to late 2000’s:

Continued corporate control of Government, an inevitable consequence of successful Capitalism (In fact when the Government becomes a puppet of the corporations I'd say that was Capitalism).

There will be some independent politicians, those not on the corporate pay-roll, but since they will be in the minority and if you dig and have limitless resources you can get damaging dirt on anyone they'll be easy to control.

All news will be corporate sponsored, so if you watch the MegaCorp channel all you'll get is news that shows MegaCorp in a good light and it's competitors in a bad light and vice versa. Not lying, just massaging the facts.

Continued wars against the bogey man.

Civil disobedience will continue to rise, maybe leading to home grown terrorism directed largely at corporations, which will undermine the marginalised anti-corporate position even further in the popular view.

Adolescent violence will be near uncontrollable; gangs of children will mug rape and riot with near impunity, unstopped by a swamped Police force or apathetic parents.

Increased rioting and civil disobedience leads to CCTV networks monitored 24/7 by computer, which flags trouble spots to Human operators. Some places even implement low level gaseous tranquillisers which can disperse all but the most violent and aggressive riots. The most highly evolved form of this uses a weak stimulant at other times to help increase consumer sales.

Europe won’t have cities anymore, Europe will be a city.

People who see blue sky will be the ones that take high altitude jet flights.

Decongestants will be the most widely used medicine and are vital, especially in cities.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:13 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


In the year 2020 I see the US as universally disliked, with even our closes allies distancing themselves from us.

In the year 2020 I see the civil liberties of citizens curtailed to such a degree that it is hard to imagine recovering from it. The 'Conservatives' and their 'Patriot Acts' have removed our liberties, and the successor 'Liberals' and their 'Brady Bills' have removed our final ability to resist.

In the year 2020 I see the American government in financial crisis, unable to repay the debt it incurred.

In the year 2020, I see the US returning to isolationism.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:17 PM

FREDGIBLET


pretty much any of William Gibsons books can sum up where we are going.
http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:03 PM

THIEFJEHAT


In 15 years? I doubt lots will change except perhaps a little technology.

Here's an example. In 1997 I and a friend decided to rent Escape from New York, the orginal 1982 film that spawned the Clone film "Escape from LA"

As we watched, the movie claimed that New York had been nearly destroyed by a natural disaster and what was left was being used by the now fascist US government as a penal colony. The Film opens with this tag "NEW YORK 1997" And shows us manhattan. I turn to my friend and say "Dude...this is happening RIGHT NOW!"

We both laugh at the absurdity

The point being, little changes in 15 years. 1982 to 1997.



Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


THIEFJEHAT,

It's true that 15 years usually doesn't change the world in a fundamental way, but I can't help but feel that recent events have already set big changes in motion, and we simply haven't felt the full effect yet. (Kind of like how nothing was the same after WWII.)

Then again, you might be right. It might be 15 years of struggle and strife on the world stage only to bring us back where we were when we started. I can Grok the irony of that.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, March 31, 2006 3:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by thiefjehat:

The point being, little changes in 15 years. 1982 to 1997.





Except that in 1982 you could make a movie like Firefox (Big Bad Russia), and you couldn't in 1997; I'd call that change...

When the walls fell Chrisisall

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Friday, March 31, 2006 3:53 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by mattcoz:


Star Trek's 21st century future is actually pretty dark, with hundreds of millions of people dying in WW3 and society pretty much falling apart. Things got better only after we made first contact in 2063.

So basically, we're screwed for the next 56 years...?

Dark Chrisisall

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Friday, March 31, 2006 4:24 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
What's you realistic guess as to what our economy, state of military engagement, and level of basic freedom will be by the beginning of the third decade of the 21st Century?



Hmmm...doom and gloom or happy days.

I suggest that things will be much different and completely the same. We'll have a President that some like and some don't. We'll be arguing over pollution, taxes, health care, and TV shows. Someone will invent something thats amazing...then really great...then very nice...then old news...then someone will invent something amazing again. There will be all the same problems we have always had...even if we've never had some of them before and even if some of the ones we have now are either gone or moot.

But specifics:

2020 is great. Former US Attorney General Hero (famous for arguing 'Ohio vs. Doe' which overturned 'Roe v. Wade' and 'State v. Clinton' which invalidated the 2012 fraudulant election of Hillary Clinton) is elected President of the United States and Greater America (the political union of the US, Mexico, Cananda and several Caribean nations, including free and democratic Cuba), the first of the new Democratic-Republicans in the new single party system that formed from the collapse and split of the Democratic party following the 2012 elections. Our new hydrogen fuel cell cars and clean burning fuel technology has solved America's pollution problems and given us a manufacturing boom as we export our clean products to the dirty and desperate third world. The War on Terror is over and we are busy dealing with the latest threat to world liberty...China's neo-communism and their plans for global domination. A couple large moon bases, a couple new space stations (including the first orbital manufacturing center), and a Mars expedition. The tragedies of the terrorist nuking of Paris, the LA earthquake, and 'American Idol: The Motion Picture' are all behind us. The SciFi Channel is in its tenth season as America's number 1 network and Serenity VII:'Ok, you can stop flying now.' is number 1 in theaters. Hillary Clinton becomes elidgable for parole. And finally, the Browns win the Super Bowl. 2020, a great year to be alive.

H

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Friday, March 31, 2006 4:48 AM

KUANGZHEDE


By 2020, the "Browncaot" epidemic will reach such massive proportions that the world will no longer be run by goverments or corporations. Fox will be the first to fall, with a massive all out, simultaneous, assault on all affiliated stations worldwide. Once in control of the Signal, revolutionary doctrine will spread like a cancer. Whoring will be consolidated into a guild system, tight pants will be the "new" thing, and the world will be as one under the guidance and draconian thumb of Joss. Book will be hailed in the religions as another profit, Wash will have a display in the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. Though this may seem contrary to the initial "theme" of firefly, it has been proficised by such historical characters of note as Rasputin and Nostradamus.

So chin up, things will not be so bad :smokin"

Kuang Zhe De



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Friday, March 31, 2006 4:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
The tragedies of the terrorist nuking of Paris, the LA earthquake, and 'American Idol: The Motion Picture' are all behind us.

LMAOROTF!!!!!!

Chrisisall

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Friday, March 31, 2006 4:54 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
What's you realistic guess as to what our economy, state of military engagement, and level of basic freedom will be by the beginning of the third decade of the 21st Century?

...The SciFi Channel is in its tenth season as America's number 1 network and Serenity VII:'Ok, you can stop flying now.' is number 1 in theaters.



I'll buy that for a dollar :)

Seriously, though. If by the year 2020 I don't have something that hovers, a robot butler, an AI living in my compter, or a rent-controlled apartment on the moon, then well I'll have nothing to do with it thank you very much :P

Also, I may be wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that the... (Mayan?) calender ends in the year 2020, which is supposed to be rather important as it's like the most accurate calender ever or something. I think we're supposed to enter the next cycle or something like that.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Oh, and: "Sarge? I think I'm nekkid."

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Friday, March 31, 2006 4:58 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
it has been proficised by such historical characters of note as Rasputin and Nostradamus.



What's your modivation for spelling prophesised that way?

(Hey, did I spell it right?) Chrisisall

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Friday, March 31, 2006 5:25 AM

KUANGZHEDE


Jesus Chrisisall, you could spend a lifetime following me around correcting every spelling mistake I make when i am typing fast and off the top of my head. Besides, I blame Joss' unique writting style and argot in the 'verse for screwing my brain up forever.

Besides, who is perfect?
Quote:

Science fiction has fortold scenerios of broad Third-Worldism across the planet, loss of civil liberties, and self destruction.

-Foretold
-Scenarios
-Self-destruction


I got to get some food, I have not 'et yet.

Kuang Zhe De



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Friday, March 31, 2006 5:57 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by KuangZheDe:


Quote:

Science fiction has fortold scenerios of broad Third-Worldism across the planet, loss of civil liberties, and self destruction.

-Foretold
-Scenarios
-Self-destruction




You got me, dude. I'm just horsin' around anyway (NOBODY spells illiterate ileterate ).

Chrisisall, who has some post-fixing to do...

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Friday, March 31, 2006 6:45 AM

KUANGZHEDE


eye no man, me two, I am not taking it persionailly, just tot a little tit fo tat was in order...one can only talk so much firefli befour one starts spining of topik on God no's what



take it eaz

Kuang Zhe De



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Saturday, April 1, 2006 11:18 PM

WENDERRO


You are missing one thing here, almost everything is done with an interest but seldom it is for the good of humanity or at least group of people. Our entire political system works in some extent just because they need votes so it's a slow progress for the good of the people. Of course there are exceptions and are person who dedicate for the "good".
I don't know how the 20's will look like but I have a scenario how things will happen:
1. The world will progress slowly until...
2. The tech is sufficiently advanced to monitor every person( Many movies picture it dont't need to explain).
3. Initially the tech is mostly used for good things( stop crime etc. / spying for info, etc.)
4. At one point a person/corporation/group of people/A.I.(?) will be "bad" enought to use these ultimate control of everyone for it's own interest.



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Sunday, April 2, 2006 2:43 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by nuclearday:
Also, I may be wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that the... (Mayan?) calender ends in the year 2020, which is supposed to be rather important as it's like the most accurate calender ever or something. I think we're supposed to enter the next cycle or something like that.


The Mayan calendar worked on cycles of destruction and rebirth.

The Mayan calendar estimates a year as 365.242036 days, the Gregorian calendar as 365.2425 days, meaning the Mayan calendar is slightly more accurate, though this may be a coincidence for a number of reasons, rather than design.

The Mayan's used three calendars, and it is the long count calendar, which counts the days much like our own which you're talking about. The Mayan long count calendar ends on December 21st 2012 (had to look that up). I'm not sure that really signifies the end of the world:
Quote:

The end of the 13th baktun is conjectured to have been of great significance to the Maya, but does not mark the end of the world. According to the Popol Vuh, a sacred book of the Maya, we are living in the fourth world. The Popol Vuh describes the first three creations that the gods failed in making and the creation of the successful fourth world where men were placed. The Maya believed that the fourth world would end in catastrophe and the fifth and final world would be created that would signal the end of mankind.

The last creation ended on a long count of 13.0.0.0.0. Another 13.0.0.0.0 will occur on December 21, 2012, and it has been discussed in many New Age articles and books that this will be the end of this creation or something else entirely. However, the Maya abbreviated their long counts to just the last five vigesimal places. There were an infinitely larger number of units that were usually not shown. When the larger units were shown (notably on a monument from Coba), the end of the last creation is expressed as 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.0.0.0.0, where the units are obviously supposed to be 13s in all larger places. In this age we are only approaching 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.13.0.0.0.0, and the larger places are nowhere near the 13s that would match the end of the last creation. (Schele and Friedel 1990: 430)

This is confirmed by a date from Palenque, which projects forward in time to 1.0.0.0.0.0, which will occur on 13 October, 4772. The Classic Period Maya obviously did not believe that the end of this age would occur in 2012. According to the Maya, there will be a baktun ending in 2012, a significant event being the end of a 13th 400 year period, but not the end of the world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_calendar



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 3:00 AM

JONUS


This is why I've been saying we've got to do something about the government(s). They'll be the death of us all if we don't do something.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 5:02 AM

CITIZEN


Monolithic corporate monopolies worry me more.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Sunday, April 2, 2006 6:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Monolithic corporate monopolies worry me more.


Is not government just the long arm of the above?

Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 7:03 AM

CITIZEN


Well in a capitalist society that's exactly what it ends up being, corporations and monied individuals buy, erm I mean donate to, politicians and parties that happen to give them preferential treatment, erm best serve their interests, erm err serve the people best yeah.

Ask a capitalist and they'll tell you what it's all about though, you see business can't be held responsible; it'll be the saviour of us all.

You see by 1% of the population hording 90% of the worlds wealth capitalist magic makes everyone better off by a trickling effect which makes the wealth traverse downwards. This happens by the top 1% making more money than they spend you see.

Okay at the moment the gap between rich and poor is increasing, but that's because of Socialists, just like gremlins they are, in the system. They gum up the works with their evil socialist bodysnatching Gremlin mind control powers.

I tell ya, if it weren't for socialists there'd be no third world! Everyone would be rich and prosperous!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Sunday, April 2, 2006 7:13 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

I tell ya, if it weren't for socialists there'd be no third world! Everyone would be rich and prosperous!


Ain't gonna get into labels. I'll just rephrase: I tell ya, if it weren't for GREED there'd be no third world! Everyone would HAVE ENOUGH!




Quasi-socialist conservative bored rich liberal white guy Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 10:13 AM

CITIZEN


You've not been reading the manifesto Chris.

Greed == Good. Top 1% == Greedy, they horde the lot and that leaks down to the lower levels through capitalist magic.

Greed will save us all



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:19 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

Greed == Good. Top 1% == Greedy, they horde the lot and that leaks down to the lower levels through capitalist magic.

Greed will save us all


Sarcasm????
Why...YOU'RE A SOCIALIST!!!!!

I don't see Bruce Wayne giving away all his wealth to the third world!!!!!

Holy money! Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:27 PM

CITIZEN


Hey, I ain’t no Socialist!

I'm a realist.

Socialism in the real world ends with oppressive governments.

Capitalism ends with Governments that are run by the rich for their own benefit. Fuck the little guy! It's not like they're real people, they deserve to die!

It's feudalism for the digital age baby.

But you put the two together 50/50...

And I could kick Bruce Wayne’s arse.

CitizenDoesn'tNeed no girly armour, hooah!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:09 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:


It's feudalism for the digital age baby.


That excellent!
May I use that?

Sounds like Ash! Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:11 PM

CITIZEN


Of course.

It's patented and you'll have to pay me royalties for each posting...

Capitalist CitizenOwnsYou...



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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:18 PM

CHRISISALL


Citizen Responce Concepts
a division of Omni Consumer Products

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 4:26 PM

SASSALICIOUS


Have you read the book "Jennifer Government"? Because what you said is essentially what the book is about. A world run by corporations.

If you haven't read it, check it out.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 9:48 PM

CITIZEN


Not read it, but I go too www.nationstates.net, so I've heard about it.

I'll give it a go.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Sunday, April 2, 2006 10:03 PM

PALEHORSEXRAY


There is a bit of anger twoards the government and corporate endeavors in the posts above, which I can understand. I can't understand the negative attituides though. There will be people, and for me, that is enough. There will always be war and anger and all manner of unkind things, but I believe it's how we respond, and our attituide that shapes the world.

Keep this in mind.... no matter how bad it gets, what they take, what you lose......


You can't take the sky from me.

-Palehorse X-Ray out.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 10:57 PM

CITIZEN


There'll always be Dictators, Fascist and Nazis, doesn't mean you have to invite them too tea and ask them to run your life for you.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Monday, April 3, 2006 1:08 AM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by mattcoz:
Star Trek's 21st century future is actually pretty dark, with hundreds of millions of people dying in WW3 and society pretty much falling apart. Things got better only after we made first contact in 2063.



Dude, look at the world around you! "Global War on Terror". Global. War. Global= world, therefore, Global war= world war. We are in the middle of World War III (or at least the beginning). Society is falling apart in a lot of places. It ain't the future you gotta worry 'bout, it's today.

P.S. God, I hope there ain't any Vulcans waiting for us to kill each other off, then swoop in and help us. That would be the ultimate cruel irony, since I've hated Star Trek's unrealism for years.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 4:26 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverman:

I've hated Star Trek's unrealism for years.


Live briefly, and be destitute.

Chrisisall, a Browncoat whose first love was Trek

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Monday, April 3, 2006 11:31 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I really doubt that any of us can conceive of anything worse than how bad it will likely get.

As bill cosby said
"Never challenge worse, it always wins."

By 2020, Frankly.. I hope to be off this stupid little rock and somewhere ELSE, out of reach of governments, taxes, jackbooted thugs 'here to help you' and the associated evils of a sociopathic society I have come to despise.

I guess i'm in the same frame of mind that Mal is, so disgusted by humanity and it's messed up societies that i just want to be nice and far away from them so i can set my own path.

Of course, that mindset is why no government EVER wants space travel or self-sufficient colonies out in the black, cause the very first thing they would do is rebel - and movies aside, it's not logistically or financially possible to suppress an insurrection when you have to spend the resources to lift every ounce of men and material out of one gravity well and drop it into another.

Then there's that whole re-directed asteroid issue, it doesn't take *that* much to drop a rock, now does it.. and that's a game two can play.

And where does that leave us ?
Same place as Mal, out in the black, corner of no and where, can't hurt me if they can't find me.

In short, i want OFF this stupid little rock, preferably before the forces of mother nature choose to balance the equation by removing us from it.

-Frem

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Monday, April 3, 2006 11:43 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I guess i'm in the same frame of mind that Mal is, so disgusted by humanity and it's messed up societies that i just want to be nice and far away from them so i can set my own path.


I'd say that probably describes a lot of us here, it sure does me.

Digital Age Feudalism

Chrisisall

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Monday, April 3, 2006 1:05 PM

CITIZEN


Double posts cost double.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 1:08 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by FriendFirma:
In short, i want OFF this stupid little rock, preferably before the forces of mother nature choose to balance the equation by removing us from it.


Want a wingman?
Quote:

Of course, that mindset is why no government EVER wants space travel or self-sufficient colonies out in the black, cause the very first thing they would do is rebel - and movies aside, it's not logistically or financially possible to suppress an insurrection when you have to spend the resources to lift every ounce of men and material out of one gravity well and drop it into another.

Assuming our space technology progresses (which is seeming less and less likely these days) even this is a long way off. We're kind of in the Polynesians and their rafts phase of space travel. We can't build colonies really, except on nearby islands (the moon) all we can do is send people off and more or less let them fend for themselves.

Current technology means it takes about 260 days to reach Mars and this shortest trip can only take place every 1.6 years. It wouldn't be only unfeasible to administer an off world colony, it would be impossible. I think we're several hundred years off even having a situation like the British Empire administering it's colonies during the 18th century.

So in short I'm with you, off world colonies.
Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisIsAll:
Digital Age Feudalism


Your account has been... debited... 50... pence... thank you for shopping Citizen Responce Concepts.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 2:00 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

Your account has been... debited... 50... pence... thank you for shopping Citizen Responce Concepts.


It was advertised at 45!!!!!

I'll be going on my rampage now.

Roboisall

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