REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Afraid all the time

POSTED BY: COPILOT
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 19:53
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Monday, March 27, 2006 6:32 PM

COPILOT


I live in the U.S. and have started to see that I'm afraid all the time about a large variety of different things. Maybe the fear is just a distraction. Is anyone else starting to feel this way? I know this isn't about Firefly but in a way the U.S. is a lot like the Alliance. Our government isn't listening to us or our founding ideology. Remember the Constiution anyone? We have voice but no one is
listening. Does anyone else care?


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Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM

COPILOT


all alone?

An I carried such a torch

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Monday, March 27, 2006 9:40 PM

SASSALICIOUS


I don't know that I'm necessarily afraid of things because I'm generally a fearless and intrepid person, but I think I get what you're saying.

The current administration seems to be whipping everyone up into a fervor about the big bad terrorists and generating a climate of fear to further propagate it's misguided notions of the world/life/politics/etc.

And I hate it.

I've travelled to a number of countries because my hobby is travel and I've never once feared for my safety. There were mildly alarming moments, like the really really creepy guy in Dublin, but I've never felt that my well-being was seriously in danger. But after my most recent trip, I'm almost afraid to come back for fear that the Department of Homeland Security: US Customs and Border Protection will continue to single me out and target me because apparently solo, 21 year old female travellers returning from Europe trigger the DANGER!! alert.

Rar!

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Monday, March 27, 2006 9:44 PM

COPILOT


Are we looking for an Orange or Red alert here!
God they scare us every day.

An I carried such a torch

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:06 AM

NUCLEARDAY


I have to admit I've noticed a bit of trend in that direction, certainly. Not sure how to put this...

It's always hard to tell where it's coming from. Obviously, it's easy to point the finger at the Administration. If you have everyone afraid of terrorists/ serial killers/ natural disasters, what have you; then you can easily point to what progress you've made to keep everyone safe and make it look like you're doing a good job. 1984 would obviously come to mind, where the populace is kept both: cowed by fear of a faceless and unknown enemy, and buoyed up by regular reports of the great blows that have been made against said foe. Pretty Machiavellian (sp) idea, and I'd doubt it's a terribly new concept for governments in the world at large.

Could be the "Media", too, though. News programs are only going to talk about the stories they think everyone will want to watch. Playing up the fear aspect, letting us now that we're at terror alert orange (whatever the frell that's supposed to mean :), means better ratings.

Anyways, my ramblings... can't seem to get my thoughts together on this one.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:50 AM

GREATBLACKTHORN


Over here in Britain America isn't too popular...People here got pulled into a war we never wanted to go into, the problem is, people start hating Americans too. You can't hate a people because of their government...America may be corrupt as hell, but people here forget the American people don't like that too.

She'll turn you in before you can say "Don't turn me in...lady..."

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:43 AM

ARCLIGHT


Me, I ain't afeared. For a long time (50 years)the gov't. has been thinking they are in charge & can do whatever they damn well please. But it just ain't so. When the American people get good and pissed off about something those clowns in D.C. pull their heads in right fast (can you say spineless). The Dubai World Ports deal is a very recent case in point. That nonsense was shot down by WE THE PEOPLE! God Bless Michael Savage! Anyway don't ever forget that when it comes down to the last say, you, the American citizen have the deciding voice. The D.C clowns live in absolute fear of your voice. Use it.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:47 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


I am very sorry you guys are afraid, or at least made to feel as though you should be affraid. It must be very disconcerting.
Our government here (UK) did try that tactic a few years back when they suddenly had some tanks outside Heathrow airport, but it didn't take and the British public pretty much took the piss. No, all it did do I think was put the wind up any visiting tourists and scare them off!

The thing with the British is that we tend to take the piss alot more when it comes to our politicians. And although they may be telling us "You're in serious danger you're gonna die!" We just don't accept it.

We're defiant towards our politicans as a rule. They can't get away with too much. And we really do ask alot of questions - that said the present government have undertaken many things against the country's ethos, which has been surprising, but that's a symptom of modern politics, which is to 'shoot first ask questions later' and no-one is held accountable! This may be a more global influence, I don't know, but certainly it's a concern. But in terms of distractions I think fear isn't quite one of them.
Soaps are though! If you look at the papers you'd think more people are interested in which soap star is taking drugs, or going out on all night benders, rather than scrutinize politics.... Hmmmm not sure I've made myself feel any better actually.....

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:41 AM

JONUS


They (the government) try to make us afraid so they can gain our support and control us.

I think it's the other way around. They try to make us afraid because they're afraid of us. At any moment we could rise up and destroy everything they've built.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:44 AM

KUANGZHEDE


This is an interesting topic...

I think the previous post regarding "soaps" brings up an interesting notion. While goverment may influence a persons state of fear, the media plays a pretty active role in influencing public opinion. I would love to get into details but we all watch the news so you know that death, rape, fear, murder, suicide, terrorist, war, amber alerts, etc sell. They want you to be sooooo afraid that you cannot afford not to watch. You will never hear an in depth story about something productive or progressive coming from the talking heads in regards to gov'




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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:52 AM

CHRISISALL


I'm sometimes afraid that the ultra-religious extremist freaks running the various shows may feel that guiding the world down the proverbial toilet is just part of God's plan. Rapture, here we come...

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:09 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Afraid? Nope. Definitely don't trust politicians or the federal government to do anything but look out for their own best interests & extend their political career.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:27 AM

SASSALICIOUS


I would say Orange: there wasn't a strip search involved, but I got to go through a part of Customs I've never seen before.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:38 AM

SASSALICIOUS


I just confused myself. Hang on while I find my rant again.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:41 AM

COPILOT


Take your time darling.

An I carried such a torch

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Scared ? heck no.

What they gonna do, kill me ?
My lifestyle is far far more likely to do that, and it's not like anyone lives forever.

Nothin they can take I can't replace cep't my soul or my life, and neither one of those is gonna go without a fight.

LIVE life, dammit, and not from under no rock either - no matter which set of bad guys you hate more, if you're afraid, all of em win.

They get to control you, because fear IS control, and it's control of your life, that you give to them, because you are afraid.

Screw that, refuse to BE afraid - it's every bit as simple as that.

Dong Ma ?!

-Frem

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:03 AM

COPILOT


A little ray of hope! Yeah I'll probably die of liver failer before W has a crack at me.

An I carried such a torch

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:16 AM

SAMEERTIA


Fear is what the government wants.
Make us afraid, then use the fear to control us. Bleh.
We just keep doing what we're doing, saying what we're saying, and eventually it will get better.

I found it interesting that it was easier, and far more polite, getting into and out of Great Britain and Netherlands than it was getting BACK into the US on this vacation! Dear heaven. I'm a US passport holder- a freakin' citizen. What the heck is the problem???

No "Welcome home, citizen!" for an American. Just freakin' long lines to see if we might be smuggling in unpasturized sausage.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:48 AM

SASSALICIOUS


Somnambulist-

Right now we have a really polarized divide here where a person is "either with us or you're against us". Does that exist in the UK? I was only in London for 4 days and didn't really get that vibe, but I could be wrong.

It's the polarization that sucks because people who buy into every word that the government look at the dissenters and think they are in league with the terrorists because they don't support Dubya and dare to speak out about it. Granted, that's not everyone, but the government views the dissenters the same way which is why most protests, even the really small ones, draw the attention of a domestic spying-esque program.

However, following my airport debacle I called my mom from my cell and was ranting about everything that had gone wrong and she was so angry about how I was treated that she called the Congressman and ripped him a new one.

We don't like what's going on, we let the politicians know, and for the most part they don't care if it relates to the climate of fear they are trying to produce because the TERRORISTS are out there and they want to DESTROY AMERICA!!! (and Israel).

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:57 AM

SASSALICIOUS


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:

I found it interesting that it was easier, and far more polite, getting into and out of Great Britain and Netherlands than it was getting BACK into the US on this vacation! Dear heaven. I'm a US passport holder- a freakin' citizen. What the heck is the problem???

No "Welcome home, citizen!" for an American. Just freakin' long lines to see if we might be smuggling in unpasturized sausage.



I hear you on that. I spent 3 weeks in Ireland and London over winter break and when I got to Chicago, immigration chewed my ass. The woman looking at my passport didn't believe I was student, didn't believe I had a job, didn't believe that I had a cheap ticket, didn't understand the concept of travelling without much of a reason aside from it's fun (i was just backpacking--not really visiting anyone). She spent 10-15 minutes asking me where i stayed and who I stayed with repeatedly, what my job was, how much I made, whether I was student, where I went to school, didn't classes already start?, your ticket was that cheap?, etc etc etc.

Then I get sent to the more secure level of customs. And my luggage also didn't arrive due to bad weather in Frankfurt delaying all flights going via that airport.

So now I've just gotten interrogated by the government, my luggage is missing, and no one can point me in the direction of the United luggage counter. So I'm standing in the airport, nearly in tears, on the phone with my mom YELLING into my phone about how much I hate homeland security, it's a waste of time, Dubya sucks, this war sucks, it's useless, i HATE everyone, and how they think 21 year old female backpackers are terrorists. I think it's a good thing the "proper officials" didn't overhear that one . . . .

Anyway, getting back to the point. My parents called the Congressman and ripped him a new one about how they are treating people. He apparently called back with some lame reasoning behind it. If you think they were out of line, you should call too. Maybe if enough people call they'll realize that the treatment people are given is totally uncalled for. Other countries accomplish the same thing in a much more civilized manner. AND they understand the concept of backpacking.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:05 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD


To make my point blunt, don't fear the Government (Alliance). Is Mal afraid of the Alliance? Of course not. Fear is one way to control people into thinking a bigger power is needed. It's also justification for their "protection". Sure terrorism is a threat but sometimes it's taken a bit too far.

As for Americans being unpopular, I can see why. I'm an American myself but there are some who give us a bad name. I'm not about to name them but I'll give a quick example, winter olympics. When the teams were all walking out opening night, the American team got into the camera and started acting like fools. Don't get me wrong it wasn't all of them, but I remember how I felt about them representing all of our country.

My last point is if you see something you don't like that they are doing, stand up. Firefly can be used as another example. Speak your piece and be heard. If it's worth standing up for then you'll rally others to your side.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:22 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Hi Sassalicious.

Nope we don't have that "You're either with us or you're against us" thing here. Must admit that would be the final straw for me. That's about as basic as you can get. Beyond that I think we're down to bone throwing and dragging knuckles against the ground.

No here in the UK there are some very interesting national characteristics. I would say you probably have greater pathos for the English Cricket team having won the ashes (Tournament we play against the Aussies - we finally won it last summer y'see) than you do for the British Army being out in Iraq at present. No kidding, I honestly believe that!...While that may at first seem flipant I geniunely think it's maybe the way we brits show our defiance sometimes.
We are more behind our sporting heroes than anything else. I'd lay money on the fact that though we are divided over our soldiers being out in the gulf, that come June when that first football is kicked at the Football World cup, you will see the Brits rally around their football team with greater passion than you will the forces in the middle east - and maybe that isn't such a bad thing. I'm not a great fan of Football myself but say whatever you will about our reputation as supporters abroad, football in all it's many guises actually does bring this country closer together. The war hasn't, and wont' (War look at me calling it that...Pfff) and that's the real tragedy really - so much death over there and fear across the world as a whole and it's dividing nations!
I read your post with much sadness - it's a real problem when people with differing opinions to the government are categorized as 'dissenters'... If you look back in history that's featured often and it usually ends very badly. Lets hope someone, with some sense, somewhere, intervenes.

All the best.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:37 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Sassalicious:


I hear you on that. I spent 3 weeks in Ireland and London over winter break and when I got to Chicago, immigration chewed my ass. The woman looking at my passport didn't believe I was student, didn't believe I had a job, didn't believe that I had a cheap ticket, didn't understand the concept of travelling without much of a reason aside from it's fun (i was just backpacking--not really visiting anyone). She spent 10-15 minutes asking me where i stayed and who I stayed with repeatedly, what my job was, how much I made, whether I was student, where I went to school, didn't classes already start?, your ticket was that cheap?, etc etc etc.

Then I get sent to the more secure level of customs. And my luggage also didn't arrive due to bad weather in Frankfurt delaying all flights going via that airport.

So now I've just gotten interrogated by the government, my luggage is missing, and no one can point me in the direction of the United luggage counter. So I'm standing in the airport, nearly in tears, on the phone with my mom YELLING into my phone about how much I hate homeland security, it's a waste of time, Dubya sucks, this war sucks, it's useless, i HATE everyone, and how they think 21 year old female backpackers are terrorists. I think it's a good thing the "proper officials" didn't overhear that one . . . .



Jeez! That's frightening. Y'see once the paranoia sets in everyone looks guilty, and if you really want to, you can find a reason why they may be guilty too. I dare say that's what you've experienced here.

Hmm right now we have this ongoing thing with ID cards wanting to be introduced here by the government. They're really pushing for it and the dogged buggers will I'm sure get their way eventually. But one of the arguments they are highlighting is that it will 'route' out terrorism. Presently I think no-one is particularly convinced by this arguement - but they'll grind away at the public, make them fearful of terrors. Terrors which they [ the government] agitate themselves then say:
"See told you!!!"
and eventually we'll relent. Then before you know it. Bagged and tagged from birth to death and lead a life of fear and misery....

....That's it I'm off, I'm going to a nice quiet caribbean island and watch coconuts fall and drink Rum.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:06 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:
Fear is what the government wants.
Make us afraid, then use the fear to control us. Bleh.
We just keep doing what we're doing, saying what we're saying, and eventually it will get better.





That is so true. The federals use fear of persecution to try to keep us all in line & marching to the tune they play. Between fear for part of the U.S. citizens and apathy for another large portion of us it is no wonder nothing changes. Too many of us have grown complacent and allowed the federals to set themselves up as this all powerful centralized empire that is just nigh untouchable.

About time for a change if you ask me.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:55 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


A recent conversation between myself and my ultra-conservative buddy:

Me: The thing that bothers me is the war. I mean, do we even know what our objective is?

Buddy: Yeah, it's to win the war.

Me: (silence) But how do we do that?

Buddy: By killing the terriorists.

Me: And who, and where, are the terrorists?

Buddy: They're those people and they're over there. Heck, we've got almost all those A-rabs that were in that El Kadera group except that Bin Laden feller. That's cas the president is listening in to all those phone calls. And don't tell me about privacy issues, that don't matter cas people are trying to kill us.

Me: Who's trying to kill us?

Buddy: The terrorists.

Me: But do you really think that by forcing what we think is the best system of government on other people is the best way to deal with a situation or win a war?

Buddy: It's the only way to stop the terrorists.

Me: There's new terrorist groups springing up every day just by us being over there!

Buddy: And we'll get them to.

Me: So when does it end?

Buddy: (silence) I'm hungry. Let's get some food.

Me: Yeah, I'm hungry too.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:04 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BlackoutNights:

Buddy: And we'll get them to.


I work with such folk. I have a preferred method of dealing with pro-war hawks like that.
I like smackin' em.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:54 AM

KUANGZHEDE


I love my country,

I think the world is better off without Saddam,

I think our modivations were driven by oil and money,

I think the war in general has been speedy,

I think the occupation is necessary but unfortunate,

I do not believe a time table for pullout is realistic.

I think the "left" is painting a picture of failure and fear in the media that modivates terrorist and in turn endangers the lives of Americans and her allies.

I think bitchin about the reasons for going in and the modivations of the US goverment is not going to change the fact that we are there now.

I think talking about the fall of the Federal goverment could put you into the following scenario

I think there alot of people on both sides who are uninformed.

I think news is made not reported.

Why does the Christian Peace Group say their hostages were "released" by their captures instead of rescued or liberated by US and Brit forces.

Why does the left have no solution or platform beside attacking W. They can complain but can not offer solutions except "we have to get out"

Why do Americans care what other countries think about them, it is not a popularity contest, do you think Middle Easterner's care what American's think about them?

Is the passion for ones country gone...is it dying everyday with the conclusion of the WWII generation. Have we become soft...when did it become a bigoted hate crime to want more for the Glory of Ones Country?

I love these unresolvable threads...this sort of thing can never be resolved and it only works to increase everybodies blood pressure.

In closing I love my country, I just don't like where some people want to take it.




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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:11 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD


I'll openly admit I'm conservative, but that doesn't mean that I won't listen to the other side. It seems that it's almost impossible for either side to listen to one another. I admit I don't know a whole lot about the war. I am working full time and a full time college student.

What I do know is that we can't just pull out all of a sudden. We need to slowly pull out, otherwise what we have done will amount to nothing. A few of my friends are going to Iraq soon and I'm worried for them. But, they feel like they're doing their part. As of right now I believe that our soldiers are training Iraq's military and security so we can pull more and more out.

The worst part about all this is that our country is divided and will be until we can listen to one another. Until both left and right wish to work with one another instead of compete I think our country will start to pull itself back together. Otherwise I see our country eventually imploding from our own trouble, not terrorists.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:15 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
I love my country,(AGREE)

I think the world is better off without Saddam,(AGREE)

I think our modivations were driven by oil and money,(I THINK IT'S SPELLED 'MOTIVATIONS')

I think the war in general has been speedy,(DISAGREE)

I think the occupation is necessary but unfortunate,(DISAGREE)

I do not believe a time table for pullout is realistic.(AGREE)

I think the "left" is painting a picture of failure and fear in the media that modivates terrorist and in turn endangers the lives of Americans and her allies.(DISAGREE)

I think bitchin about the reasons for going in and the modivations of the US goverment is not going to change the fact that we are there now.(AGREE)

I think talking about the fall of the Federal goverment could put you into the following scenario (AGREE)

I think there alot of people on both sides who are uninformed.(MOST DEFINITLY, AGREE)

I think news is made not reported.(AGREE)

...when did it become a bigoted hate crime to want more for the Glory of Ones Country?(ROMAN EMPIRE)


In closing I love my country, I just don't like where some people want to take it.(AGREE)


Some people want to take it to world domination, which is clearly impossible (and very risky).

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:09 AM

KUANGZHEDE


Quote:

Some people want to take it to world domination, which is clearly impossible (and very risky).


Yeah, Global Domination is nowhere near as easy in real life as it is in "Risk"

However, I do not want the world, just the good parts.

Long Live The Alliance

Kuang Zhe De



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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:38 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Sassalicious:
Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:

I found it interesting that it was easier, and far more polite, getting into and out of Great Britain and Netherlands than it was getting BACK into the US on this vacation! Dear heaven. I'm a US passport holder- a freakin' citizen. What the heck is the problem???

No "Welcome home, citizen!" for an American. Just freakin' long lines to see if we might be smuggling in unpasturized sausage.



I hear you on that. I spent 3 weeks in Ireland and London over winter break and when I got to Chicago, immigration chewed my ass. The woman looking at my passport didn't believe I was student, didn't believe I had a job, didn't believe that I had a cheap ticket, didn't understand the concept of travelling without much of a reason aside from it's fun (i was just backpacking--not really visiting anyone). She spent 10-15 minutes asking me where i stayed and who I stayed with repeatedly, what my job was, how much I made, whether I was student, where I went to school, didn't classes already start?, your ticket was that cheap?, etc etc etc.

Then I get sent to the more secure level of customs. And my luggage also didn't arrive due to bad weather in Frankfurt delaying all flights going via that airport.

So now I've just gotten interrogated by the government, my luggage is missing, and no one can point me in the direction of the United luggage counter. So I'm standing in the airport, nearly in tears, on the phone with my mom YELLING into my phone about how much I hate homeland security, it's a waste of time, Dubya sucks, this war sucks, it's useless, i HATE everyone, and how they think 21 year old female backpackers are terrorists. I think it's a good thing the "proper officials" didn't overhear that one . . . .

Anyway, getting back to the point. My parents called the Congressman and ripped him a new one about how they are treating people. He apparently called back with some lame reasoning behind it. If you think they were out of line, you should call too. Maybe if enough people call they'll realize that the treatment people are given is totally uncalled for. Other countries accomplish the same thing in a much more civilized manner. AND they understand the concept of backpacking.


I doubt the lady didn't believe you or understand your situation. It's most likely an interrogation technique she was using on you. If the interrogator acts like your story is completely unbelievable and it is made up, you're probably going to try to amend it to make it more believable. If you stick with the same story because it's the truth, then it's believable.

The woman was just doing her job. I'm sure the 15 minute inconvenience couldn't have been that bad.

I don't know if there's any way I can word this to make it not sound insulting, but you did end up calling your mom, nearly in tears over a 15 minute interrogation. Which she proceeded to call a representative about. Maybe in the future you should call the representative on your own behalf. You're an adult now. You don't need your mom to fight your battles for you. I don't even think your description particularly made this a battle worth fighting.

Just get some confidence and conviction in your actions. Don't let other people or situations intimidate you. You know you weren't doing anything wrong. So you should have had nothing to worry about.

Just my opinion. Sorry if it comes off accusitory. Maybe I just got the wrong impression of the situation.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:26 AM

SASSALICIOUS


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Sassalicious:
Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:

I found it interesting that it was easier, and far more polite, getting into and out of Great Britain and Netherlands than it was getting BACK into the US on this vacation! Dear heaven. I'm a US passport holder- a freakin' citizen. What the heck is the problem???

No "Welcome home, citizen!" for an American. Just freakin' long lines to see if we might be smuggling in unpasturized sausage.



I hear you on that. I spent 3 weeks in Ireland and London over winter break and when I got to Chicago, immigration chewed my ass. The woman looking at my passport didn't believe I was student, didn't believe I had a job, didn't believe that I had a cheap ticket, didn't understand the concept of travelling without much of a reason aside from it's fun (i was just backpacking--not really visiting anyone). She spent 10-15 minutes asking me where i stayed and who I stayed with repeatedly, what my job was, how much I made, whether I was student, where I went to school, didn't classes already start?, your ticket was that cheap?, etc etc etc.

Then I get sent to the more secure level of customs. And my luggage also didn't arrive due to bad weather in Frankfurt delaying all flights going via that airport.

So now I've just gotten interrogated by the government, my luggage is missing, and no one can point me in the direction of the United luggage counter. So I'm standing in the airport, nearly in tears, on the phone with my mom YELLING into my phone about how much I hate homeland security, it's a waste of time, Dubya sucks, this war sucks, it's useless, i HATE everyone, and how they think 21 year old female backpackers are terrorists. I think it's a good thing the "proper officials" didn't overhear that one . . . .

Anyway, getting back to the point. My parents called the Congressman and ripped him a new one about how they are treating people. He apparently called back with some lame reasoning behind it. If you think they were out of line, you should call too. Maybe if enough people call they'll realize that the treatment people are given is totally uncalled for. Other countries accomplish the same thing in a much more civilized manner. AND they understand the concept of backpacking.


I doubt the lady didn't believe you or understand your situation. It's most likely an interrogation technique she was using on you. If the interrogator acts like your story is completely unbelievable and it is made up, you're probably going to try to amend it to make it more believable. If you stick with the same story because it's the truth, then it's believable.

The woman was just doing her job. I'm sure the 15 minute inconvenience couldn't have been that bad.

I don't know if there's any way I can word this to make it not sound insulting, but you did end up calling your mom, nearly in tears over a 15 minute interrogation. Which she proceeded to call a representative about. Maybe in the future you should call the representative on your own behalf. You're an adult now. You don't need your mom to fight your battles for you. I don't even think your description particularly made this a battle worth fighting.

Just get some confidence and conviction in your actions. Don't let other people or situations intimidate you. You know you weren't doing anything wrong. So you should have had nothing to worry about.

Just my opinion. Sorry if it comes off accusitory. Maybe I just got the wrong impression of the situation.



I didn't ask my mom to call anyone. I was pretty suprised that she did. I typically call my mom when I need to rant and rave because she'll listen, I feel better, and then nothing bad happens. And I probably wouldn't have been almost in tears if it was either the interrogation OR the lost luggage, but it was the combination of BOTH happening that had me worked up coupled with having been up for over 24 hours and still having a 3.5 hour bus ride ahead of me. You're right, 15 minutes wasn't that big of an inconvenience, but I want to know why being a 21 year old solo traveller sets off the alarms for further questioning. I've NEVER been questioned like that before. Not previous trips to Europe, not coming back from Hawaii, and not when I came back from Southeast Asia. I wanted to know why everything suddenly changed and it wasn't just this obsession with terrorists because I came back from Asia after the war had started. And you know when it changed? When the department of homeland security took over immigration.

The WHY is a bigger issue for me than the fact that it happened. I just want a reason and so far no one has been able to give me one.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:17 PM

CHINDI


Go re watch Bowling for Columbine.. it is ALL about the government creating an atmosphere of FEAR cus it makes the populace submit easier..

"they must know what's best" etc..

B.S.

Don't be afraid.. there is nothing to fear but fear itself.. Be strong and be a browncoat...

Chindi

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:11 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I just want to point out that the proper quote is not 'you're either with us or against us' it is 'you're either with us OR YOU'RE WITH THE TERRORISTS.'

So by questioning Bush - not being 'with' him - you're a terrorist - and that's why they can wiretap you.

Just adding - wiretap rules state the government can wiretap and THEN get a court order 3 days later - for emergencies.

What Bush wants is to wiretap anyone and NEVER have it reviewed. Ever.


Feel safer with Bush breathing down your neck?

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:52 PM

DREAMTROVE


Actually, it the enemy, "if you're not with us, you're with the enemy."

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:36 PM

FREDGIBLET


"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

George "Dubya" Bush?
Dick Cheney?
Karl Rove?

Try Hermann Goering during the Nuremburg trials

This has been a reliable standby of many governments over the years. Some of the British posters have mentioned that their people don't take to the fear-mongering and I applaud them for that. The simple fact is that in the U.S. fear-mongering works, we are led to believe that we are in danger and so we allow our politicians to get away with whatever they want. The tactic is used in many different places such as the War On Drugs, the fact is that while drugs such as meth and crack are destructive, drugs like weed are not significantly more dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes. But since people have been taught (by the government) from their youth that weed is destructive they OK MASSIVE expenditure to wipe out something that really isn't that dangerous and could be quite beneficial. The simple fact is that the U.S. has gotten soft over the years. Some countries (Israel for example) live in constant danger, there is nothing that the government can do to guarantee safety and the people know it. In the U.S. some people seem to believe that the goverment can protect them from anything if we just give it enough power. Some people believe that if we let the government freely monitor whoever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want that the government can protect us. To them I have this quote.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" -Benjamin Franklin

I for one would rather have liberty and take my chances with security. The fact is that there is too much traffic, and too much raw space on our borders to ensure safety. You can either accept this, and accept that as long as we are a superpower there will be people who will hate and attempt to kill us, and live with it, or you can live in fear, give more and more power to a government full of irresponsible, arrogant, power-hungry old men (and women). I personally choose to accept it. However, I do live in fear, I live in fear of the government, the conservatives forcing me to live by the tenets of a faith I do not follow, the liberals forcing me to accept that criminals are not at fault for their own actions, or the countless other places that I disagree with either group. Sorry for the long post but this is something that bugs the hell out of me about this country.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:23 PM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
I love my country,


sort of agree, sometimes i think that i should move to Canada

Quote:

I think the world is better off without Saddam,

agree

Quote:

I think our modivations were driven by oil and money,

agree, and add in machismo on the part of our fearless, never-seen-combat-himself, president

Quote:

I think the war in general has been speedy,

in four years we won World War II, that war covered three quarters of the globe, we have spent three years mucking around in one country and still havent really won, i dont call that speedy

Quote:

I think the occupation is necessary but unfortunate,

agree, but we should have invited the U.N. to give a hand years ago

Quote:

I do not believe a time table for pullout is realistic.

disagree, if we have a definite timetable it will (hopefully) force the Iraqis to work harder on their government, just so long as the timetable isn't too short, additionally if we never set a timetable for leaving then we may never leave

Quote:

I think the "left" is painting a picture of failure and fear in the media that modivates terrorist and in turn endangers the lives of Americans and her allies.

dont entirely disagree, i think that the media certainly is irresponsible, but at the same time we cant rely on the government to keep us informed and i doubt that what the media says about the war has that much impact on terrorism

Quote:

I think bitchin about the reasons for going in and the modivations of the US goverment is not going to change the fact that we are there now.

agree, but at the same time what else can we do? if we dont speak up the government will feel that it has free reign to do whatever it feels like, do you want us to invade every country that looks at us wrong?

Quote:

I think talking about the fall of the Federal goverment could put you into the following scenario

agree, and if things go the way the neo-cons want then that wink may not last to long

Quote:

I think there alot of people on both sides who are uninformed.

ABSOLUTELY agree, i know of some people who STILL believe that Iraq was directly involved in 9\11

Quote:

I think news is made not reported.

agree whole-heartedly with the caveat that the government is making up just as much as the media (anyone remember MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?)

Quote:

Why does the Christian Peace Group say their hostages were "released" by their captures instead of rescued or liberated by US and Brit forces.

dunno, maybe they dont agree with the war? also, dont take this as arguementative but do you KNOW that they were "liberated"? maybe they were released, dont know or really care myself

Quote:

Why does the left have no solution or platform beside attacking W. They can complain but can not offer solutions except "we have to get out"

agree, but at the same time, the rights platform is just that the war was completely justified (no WMD, no terrorists) and that anyone who doesnt agree with them is a terrorist, additionally during the Clinton scandal (which did almost no damage to the country as a whole) the right was spending a huge amount of time and money impeaching a guy for something that did not kill anyone or cost us our reputation around the world, or cost billions upon billions of dollars

Quote:

Why do Americans care what other countries think about them, it is not a popularity contest, do you think Middle Easterner's care what American's think about them?

because if everyone hates you they fly planes into your buildings? just a thought

Quote:

Is the passion for ones country gone...

unfortunetly more or less agree, kids these days (I am 20) are not taught nationalism in school and are not very likely to develop it on their own (i know i didnt)

Quote:

is it dying everyday with the conclusion of the WWII generation.

no, you still have the South

Quote:

Have we become soft

yes

Quote:

when did it become a bigoted hate crime to want more for the Glory of Ones Country?

if glory comes from driving the national debt to truly epic proportions while simultaneously screwing over the entire populous of more than one country id say its a crime, but thats just me

Quote:

In closing I love my country, I just don't like where some people want to take it.

agree whole-heartedly, and i get the feeling that each of us probably doesnt want the other in control

just my opinions.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:53 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Originally posted by copilot:
I live in the U.S. and have started to see that I'm afraid all the time about a large variety of different things. Maybe the fear is just a distraction. Is anyone else starting to feel this way? I know this isn't about Firefly but in a way the U.S. is a lot like the Alliance. Our government isn't listening to us or our founding ideology. Remember the Constiution anyone? We have voice but no one is
listening. Does anyone else care?





I know what your saying , and I get it, I was really letting it all get to me, and then I realized thats exactly what they want is for us to be afraid, I refuse to be afraid not because there isn't reason to be, but because fear is degrading everything evil in this world has to do with someone being afraid of something or someone, and I'm just not going to live my life like that, I'm just not!! I'm not afraid of dying but there are worse things then dying, but the only thing to fear is fear, I know that sounds clique but its true!!

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