REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Pat Robertson advocates murder

POSTED BY: PERFESSERGEE
UPDATED: Friday, August 26, 2005 23:15
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4977
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Tuesday, August 23, 2005 10:59 PM

PERFESSERGEE


Now here's a fine example of the moral relativism of the Christian Right. Yesterday on the 700 Club, Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition, spoke with reference to Hugo Chavez, President of Venezuela. He said "if he thinks we are trying to assassinate him, we really ought to go ahead and do it" and "we have the ability to take him out and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability". His justification was that it would be cheaper than starting a war. (Yep, that would be yet another war against a nation with oil reserves.....) This hasn't gotten much press yet, but all you have to do is Google "Pat Robertson" and you'll find it right away. The publicity is on its way.

Most civilized people don't go around advocating the execution without trial of anyone (hint, it's called "murder" for those unclear on the concept), let alone a head of state. Certainly anyone who were to advocate the assassination of Pres. Bush would be rightly dismissed as a terrorist. But then we have Pat Robertson advocating the murder of the duly elected head of state of another nation.

Now I'm no fan of Hugo Chavez. He has been even more divisive to his country than our own Mr. Bush (no small feat), and with even greater effect. But, international observers agree that he was legitimately elected to office by his own people.

And so now we come back to Pat Robertson, advocating good conservative Christian values, as he has throughout his long public career. Those values seem to include violating the Ten Commandments (can you say "thou shalt not kill?") when you disagree with the politics of the intended victim. This is moral relativism of the highest magnitude. Further, do these statements resonate with those of any other religious advocacy groups, perhaps some Islamic fundamentalists? Looks like a pretty similar attitude to me.

Jesus of Nazareth advocated love for the sinner, but hatred for the sin. But then he also had a particular antipathy for the sin of hypocrisy. It must be hard to love a hypocrite of such grand proportion as Pat Robertson, but I guess we ought to give the Christian Right credit for trying so hard and so effectively. One has to wonder when the condemnation of the sin is going to come in. Mainstream Christian groups have already condemned him, but the big names in the Christian Right have so far remained silent. And personally, I'm not holding my breath.

May every conceivable kind of god spare us from hypocrites.

perfessergee

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Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:11 PM

POG


Wow, I mean, I knew I didn't like the Christian Right but this really takes the biscuit...

I really hope this gets the press it deserves, that could be interesting to watch!

Pog

We may experience some slight turbulence and then explode...

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:00 AM

CITIZEN


You said it Pog...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:07 AM

CHRISISALL


What he really said was:"if he thinks we are trying to CHARACTER assassinate him, we really ought to go ahead and do it" and "we have the ability to take him out TO A BALL GAME and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability".
How dare you misquote a hand of God?
Usually we agree on things, perfessergee, but this time you've gone too far.
In the baseball game of life, I'm sure Pat would never steal home.

Did I say he was a hand of God?
Wrong body part.

Think 'ass' Chrisisall (...I know...A special Hell....)

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:13 AM

SPINLAND


It's just more of the same from someone who thinks their "end" is sufficiently lofty to justify whatever "means" necessary to achieve it. He is just one of a great many people who feel that way. Alas for us, many of those people have managed to lie, cheat and connive their way into positions of power over others. What are the sheep who elect these creatures going to do when the "shepherds" decide it's right and proper to begin culling the flock?

----
I can see you.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:41 AM

HKCAVALIER


Someone on another forum I visit made the point that the only reason most Christian nations aren't as violent and brutal as some modern Islamic states is their secular governments. All theocracies end up commiting atrocities in the name of God. You better believe if Pat Robertson ran this country heads would roll (and not just figuratively).

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:51 AM

CHRISISALL


Maybe this country should give Scientology a shot, I can't imagine Tom Cruise or John Travolta callin' for someone's head in the name of L. Ron....

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:59 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Maybe this country should give Scientology a shot, I can't imagine Tom Cruise or John Travolta callin' for someone's head in the name of L. Ron....

Chrisisall


Dude, you've been neglecting your studies! I'm this close to taking away your official CT merit badge, for that. Believe me, as someone who has walked their halls and been to their meetin's: you do not want Scientology running this country. Tom & John, their two ex-gay posterboys, are not who you would have to contend with.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:35 AM

PERFESSERGEE


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
What he really said was:"if he thinks we are trying to CHARACTER assassinate him, we really ought to go ahead and do it" and "we have the ability to take him out TO A BALL GAME and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability".

How dare you misquote a hand of God?
Usually we agree on things, perfessergee, but this time you've gone too far.
In the baseball game of life, I'm sure Pat would never steal home.

Did I say he was a hand of God?
Wrong body part.

Think 'ass' Chrisisall (...I know...A special Hell....)


ROFLMAO! Well done Chrisisall. Thanks for injecting some humor into an otherwise depressing topic....

perfessergee

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:50 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Chrisisall
Dude, you've been neglecting your studies! I'm this close to taking away your official CT merit badge, for that.

The banghead, the banghead, man!
Sometimes I'm makin' myself chuckle, and I don't actually get to the funny for anyone else...

I've read some of that go-se, and that anyone would willingly...

But hey, whatever floats your anchor.

Ex-gay???Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh. Well, Pat says he was grossly misintepreted and taken out of context. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! That was almost as funny as Chris!

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:10 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh. Well, Pat says he was grossly misintepreted and taken out of context.



I disagree (with him, not you). I heard what he said (note: I DO NOT WATCH the 700 Club, I heard it on the news) and he said the guy needed to be 'taken out'. Now perhaps he meant removed in a similar fashion to the like of Saddam (or Noriega maybe) and NOT killed. But thats not the way it sounded to me.

There is a clear differance between advocating assination and advocating regime change. Mr. Robertson's words might have been poorly chosen to reflect the message he wanted to send, but he said words that have a very narrow interpretation and its a violent one.

My impression of the whole incident was that the guy was doing an unscripted commentary that amounts to what we in the legal profession call "talking out your ass". While it can be an effective means of communication, it more often leads to trouble and misubderstanding.

I note for the record that comments made by liberals, including a certain grieving mother or perhaps the entire staff of Air America, against a certain President of the United States are often even more direct and threatening, yet they receive none of the same media or public scrutiny.

H

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:15 AM

CHRISISALL


Sayin' he needs to be impeached or kicked in the ass doesn't = terminate w/extreme predudice.

two penny Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:18 AM

SPINLAND


According to CNN, these are the man's words:

Quote:

"If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."

"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."



I note his use of the specific word "assassinate." Fortunately there's no "Commandment" that states "thou shalt not be disengenuous," else his followers would be forced to "take him out." In the non-violent sense, of course.





----
I can see you.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:23 AM

SPINLAND


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I note for the record that comments made by liberals, including a certain grieving mother or perhaps the entire staff of Air America, against a certain President of the United States are often even more direct and threatening


You state as fact what is merely your opinion. Others may well feel those "comments" are only what the powers that be deserve to face, and that calling leaders on their misdeeds only serves to strengthen the country in the long run by helping expose and weed out harmful ones. Of course, those feelings are also only opinion.

----
I can see you.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:15 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Chrisisall


I thought the might have been an indication of your irony, but the -worthiness of the whole issue threw me off. Won't happen again.

Yes, ex-gay. Y'see, homosexuality is a result of engrams, di'n'tcha know? In the process of "going clear" all traces of one's gayness clears right up like acne after clearasil.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:30 AM

R1Z


I think we should ask Ole' Pat (and the other eminent theologians of the Christian Right) if the duly, democratically elected president of another sovereign state (who just happens to dislike us, go figure) is the only person they feel it's ok to kill, or do they have a list of folk it's ok to kill.

And is it only for ok for government sanctioned assination squads to kill him, or can just anybody do it?

And is there a bounty?

We can't really make any plans without details. We need more info. Anybody got Pat's phone number?

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:33 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Y'see, homosexuality is a result of engrams, di'n'tcha know? In the process of "going clear" all traces of one's gayness clears right up like acne after clearasil.

What?
I thought we were all born potentially bi-sexual, and that role model identification, and the sub-conscious (as well as conscious) choices we make along the road of life are what define us as either hetero, homo, or bi....

Damn, suddenly sexuality's a whole lot simpler!

Steppin' out to Scientology, yeaaa, brother Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:40 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
We can't really make any plans without details. We need more info.

That's on a need-to-know basis, son, And I know all I need to.
If God want's this boy sent to him, who am I to ignore a bounty?

Three Hail Mary's and a 45 Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:56 AM

R1Z


Quote:

That's on a need-to-know basis, son, And I know all I need to.
If God want's this boy sent to him, who am I to ignore a bounty?



You might email Pat and tell him you're on it.

And be sure to tell God that Pat Robertson OK'd it. I understand that if you're considered for sainthood, using a bent scope is worth more.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:01 PM

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL


As a Christian, I dearly hope that people in this wonderful country (and even more wonderful RWED board) understand that good ole' Pat doesn't speak for all of us. When I saw news coverage of what he said I slapped my forehead so hard the soundwave shattered my livingroom windows (hyperbole--but it was pretty hard).

I would just like to say that I would consider it a great benefit to Christians, conservatives, and Americans in general if Pat Robertson would just crawl away into some journalist-free corner of the country and live out the rest of his sad little life in obscurity.

To sum up: 1) Christians don't all (and don't most) agree with Pat. 2) It's impossible to break glass by slapping your forehead.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:05 PM

PERFESSERGEE


UPDATE:

Robertson has issued a written apology for calling for Chavez' assassination, but get this, he says he really didn't say "assassination"! Unfortunately for him, his recorded words are all over the Internet. Have a look and listen:

www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/24/robertson.chavez/index.html

Double think and double speak. Ya gotta admire his consistency.

Oh, IB, I think that I can confidently say that no one on these boards thinks that all Christians are murder-advocating hypocrites. I doubt that many folk here would think that more than a tiny minority fit that description. But some are real doozies.........

perfessergee

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:28 PM

HKCAVALIER


Frickin' priceless.

Not only that, but did you hear the news, comrade? Choco rations are up 15% this month alone! Can you imagine? Double-plus good, that!

"O-ce-aaaaania...O-ce-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaania..."

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:37 PM

R1Z


Not to worry, INEVITABLEBETRAYAL.

I don't watch him (hyperactive gorge reflex) but last I heard, Ole' Pat didn't claim to speak for all Christians.

I'm pretty sure he claims to speak for GOD, which is a whole 'nother thing.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:29 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


gee, if he really feels that way...

perhaps someone should " visit " Pat

doesn't that crazy religion preach something about do on to others as they would do on to you ?

" I'm on a mission from god "

Elwood Blues

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:13 PM

DANFAN


Thanks for speaking up, InevitableBetrayal. When I saw Perfessergee lead the thread off with the words "Now here's a fine example of the moral relativism of the Christian Right...", my heart sank. Stuff like that tends to kill my hope that we will one day stop categorizing people to make it easier to demonize whole groups.

I am a Christian moderate... I've thought Pat was a wacko since I was old enough to notice him on the TV. But I have a very close friend who is an unashamed member of the "Christian Right"... and at lunch today he was overflowing with his denunciation of Pat Robertson. My friend offers no support at all for Pat or his behavior... no matter what camouflage the loon tries to wear.

And Perfessergee, in your response to IB, I was heartened to see you amplify on your interpretation of Pat by viewing him as representative of a small fringe group. My hope is somewhat restored...

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Folks, remember, this is the guy who called the Care bears and Rainbow Brite "Satanic icons" and a whole slew of other horrible things..

If it wasn't so horribly terrifying that there are indeed people who believe this wackjob *IS* some gods messenger, he'd actually be comedic.

So, like, would he melt if I beat him senseless with a Rainbow Brite doll ?

Enquiring minds wanna know...

-F

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:13 PM

R1Z


Quote:

So, like, would he melt if I beat him senseless with a Rainbow Brite doll ?


I can only think of one way to find out. And I think we owe it to science to perform the experiment.

What petrifies me is that there are enough people sending their hard earned money to this clown that he can stay on tv spouting this rot.

After you beat Pat senseless with the doll, feel free to smack anyone who sends him money. Then ask them what they're thinking of.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:28 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by perfessergee:
Oh, IB, I think that I can confidently say that no one on these boards thinks that all Christians are murder-advocating hypocrites. I doubt that many folk here would think that more than a tiny minority fit that description. But some are real doozies.........

perfessergee


And just happen to own their own television station and have a contract with a major network to broadcast their show. I've always thought there was too much of the snake-oil salesman in Pat Robertson (and a couple of other televangelists - but, just in case my grandma ever reads this, NOT Robert Schuller). He would've fit right in with the tent meeting hellfire and brimstone revivalists of a century and a half ago. What saddens me is that many good people out there send him money. He's definitely not speaking for them. But he wouldn't have the platform he does without them. Hopefully this latest revelation of character will shock enough people. The bottom line is that Pat Robertson doesn't care as long as there's no change in his bottom line.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:05 AM

JEFF0004


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
I think we should ask Ole' Pat (and the other eminent theologians of the Christian Right) if the duly, democratically elected president of another sovereign state (who just happens to dislike us, go figure) is the only person they feel it's ok to kill, or do they have a list of folk it's ok to kill.

And is it only for ok for government sanctioned assination squads to kill him, or can just anybody do it?

And is there a bounty?

We can't really make any plans without details. We need more info. Anybody got Pat's phone number?

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein




All good questions Dude, maybe we should ask the former senior Clinton advisor George Stephanopoulos, in 1997 he said the same thing Robertson did, only he said it about Saddam, and in much greater detail. So of course you condemn him for that opion as well. By the way, where was the so called media when old Stephy said this? Where was the outrage? He even went so far as to say "If Clinton decides we can and should assassinate Saddam, he could call in national-security adviser Sandy Berger and sign a secret National Security Decision Directive authorizing it." and "What's unlawful - and unpopular with the allies - is not necessarily immoral."

What both men said is wrong, very wrong. Robertson has nothing to do the the administration, while George Stephanopoulos was a high level advisor.

Have a nice day and remember do not let the facts change your almighty opinion they are after all only facts.


P.S. Calling Chavez a democratically elected president is like calling Saddam a democratically elected president. Just ask Castro what it is like to win that kind of election.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:59 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Robertson also suggested that Chavez would spread Castroism and Islamic extremeism in the Western hemisphere

Castroism maybe. Chavez does admire Fidel. But Islamic extremeism? Never heard of him being connected with that.

He might also advocate Nazism, abortion, gay marriage, Gray Davis, Jane Fonda, Rose Bird for the Supreme Court, Bennito Mussolini, and Ted Kennedy.

Pick your favorite demon and tar the guy with your paint brush.

NewOld
"This is why we lost, you know... superior numbers."

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:19 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff0004:



All good questions Dude, maybe we should ask the former senior Clinton advisor George Stephanopoulos, in 1997 he said the same thing Robertson did, only he said it about Saddam, and in much greater detail. So of course you condemn him for that opion as well. By the way, where was the so called media when old Stephy said this? Where was the outrage? He even went so far as to say "If Clinton decides we can and should assassinate Saddam, he could call in national-security adviser Sandy Berger and sign a secret National Security Decision Directive authorizing it." and "What's unlawful - and unpopular with the allies - is not necessarily immoral."

What both men said is wrong, very wrong. Robertson has nothing to do the the administration, while George Stephanopoulos was a high level advisor.

Have a nice day and remember do not let the facts change your almighty opinion they are after all only facts.


P.S. Calling Chavez a democratically elected president is like calling Saddam a democratically elected president. Just ask Castro what it is like to win that kind of election.



Ahhh, there it is; I was beginning to think we wouldn't get it in this thread, but I'm almost never disappointed when it comes to hard core Bushiates. The (in this case slightly modified) "But Clinton" defense. Yes, as a Clinton supporting liberal, I agree with you that both men were wrong. On the other hand, if you think Robertson doesn't have an extrememly high level of pull in this administration, and a high level of support from this admin's 'base,' then you are amazingly deluded.
And, you are also incorrect about why the outrage is being expressed. The outrage isn't over the statement itself, it is over the man making the statement; a so-called Christian leader, defended by people who only say that this kind of hate speech is made by races/religions they don't like. "Why, a Christian leader would never advocate murder, like an Islamic fundamentalist does!" Bzzzzzzt, sorry Hans, wrong guess, wanna try for double jeopardy where the scores can really change?
I would suggest you come down out of the ivory tower you live in and look around it sometime. You don't have to make snide remarks about how we don't let facts change our minds, because you're being a hypocrite. Just because two men make a similar statement does not make those statements politically, socially, or morally equal. A secular Presidential advisor offering up military solutions to a crisis is not the same as a spiritual leader who advocates the same thing. But hey, don't let logic or morality get in the way of your almighty opinion; it is after all, only logic and morality.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:29 AM

HKCAVALIER


Well said, 7%

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho-ho-ho."

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:55 AM

R1Z


Quote:

P.S. Calling Chavez a democratically elected president is like calling Saddam a democratically elected president. Just ask Castro what it is like to win that kind of election.


Chavez's election was certified by international observers as a fair election, Saddam's was not. I wasn't there for either of them, so I can't comment beyond the above.

For a U.S. official to advocate assassination is to advocate a criminal act.

For a religious leader to advocate assassination is to advocate both a criminal act and a sin, by his own lights.

The abortion opponents keep claiming divine law trumps civil law, although I suspect the distinction would be lost on the victim.

Very few people take independant action based on what government officials say. Unfortunately, there are those few zealots who take the utterings of religious leaders to imply divine endorsement of a concept, viz: Eric Rudolph, who God apparently told to blow up abortion clinics, the Atlanta Olympics and a lesbian nightclub.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:50 AM

R1Z


Actually, on further reflection--

I do have a short "better off dead" list my own self. Some of them will never be missed. Please email me for the list if you'd like to contribute to this little effort.

DISCLAIMER:

The killing of people on my list is not, to my knowledge, endorsed by any civil government, nor by any deity, known or unknown. You'll be acting strictly on your own, and afterwards I will, with a perfectly straight face, say I don't know you.


'Course I'm not publicizing any names. I don't have a tv show, a tv station, nor anyone sending me money so I can continue to tell them what God thinks. (Feel free to send money if you want to know what I think. I've got no clue what God thinks.)

Guess I'm not a great man. I'm just OK.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:03 PM

BLUESKYSMINE



>>>I've got no clue what God thinks>>>

Don't worry, I don't think Pat Robertson has either..

We need more mutual understanding.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:13 PM

CHRISISALL


7%, you're just a fly in the ointment,
a monkey in the wrench...

And I agree 100% Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


I have little respect for a leader who speaks out of both sides of his or her mouth. This Robertson fella advocates a whole lot of warmth and light, and then turns around and calls up an order of murder. Hypocrisy of the highest order. Doesn't speak for most Christians, I'd think. Probably keeps power and viewership by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Everyone hates somebody. Hitler understood that. Hatred and blame go a long way to unify a people.

Now, what about assassination, itself, as a valid thing to do?

To my pea brain, assassination is an act of war. You're shooting at, blowing up, or otherwise killing an official of another country.

Seems to me that if you're at war, assassination is just one of the many kinds of killing at your disposal.

Seems to me that if you're not at war, you ought to be after the assassination.

Also seems to me that we (the US) got real upset when Japan went to war with us without declaring it first. If we assassinated a foreign leader before declaring our intentions, we'd be justifiably reviled.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:10 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Anyone here read 'Stranger in a Strange Land'? Where religious leaders barely distinguishable from circus carnies are consulted by the president's wife for divine guidance on government policy ...


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 6:04 AM

DANFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SevenPercent:
The outrage isn't over the statement itself, it is over the man making the statement...

A secular Presidential advisor offering up military solutions to a crisis is not the same as a spiritual leader who advocates the same thing. B]



These comments strike me as just plain weird.

As for what the outrage is about, speak for yourself. I'm outraged that a public figure proposes government sanctioned murder without due process or a formal declaration of war. I don't give a f*ck whether he's a televangelist or a presidential advisor.

As to the moreally/ethically mitigating circumstances that may result because the proposed murder is a "military solution to a crisis" as opposed to the words of a "spiritual leader", I suspect the distinction is lost on the murder victim and his/her family.

All this left/right maneuvering to condemn it when one guy does it but excuse or mitigate it when another does it just makes me sick. It was wrong then. It's wrong now. End of story.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 6:26 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by danfan:

These comments strike me as just plain weird.



Well then, maybe you shouldn't have taken them out of context like you did. I condemned both men, as you could have seen if you actually read my post, instead of looking for whatever lines you wanted to play partisan hack with.

To continue what I started, 'welcome to the party, pal.'

Quote:

As for what the outrage is about, speak for yourself. I'm outraged that a public figure proposes government sanctioned murder without due process or a formal declaration of war. I don't give a f*ck whether he's a televangelist or a presidential advisor.


We are in agreement, which you'd have realized if you had taken the time to read my post (don't they teach reading comprehension in schools anymore?). I do not advocate state sponsored murder in any instance. However, I am a realist, and in military crises, government advisors can and often do come up with this kind of solution. Is it right? No, but that's their job -- to try and figure out a way to fix a problem (which seldom happens, usually they make it worse). My response was why others in this thread were so outraged, and why it adds a little extra fuel to my own fire. A man who makes a living claiming to be a man of the cross, who accuses other faiths religious leaders of being evil, turns around and blatantly calls for an assassination and is defended by people. That is twisted, and is in a completely different class than if Rumsfeld would have said the same thing, and you full well know it. Both men would be wrong, one man would be an incredible hypocrite as well as wrong (can you guess which one, or are you confused by this post too?)


Quote:

All this left/right maneuvering to condemn it when one guy does it but excuse or mitigate it when another does it just makes me sick. It was wrong then. It's wrong now. End of story.


I didn't start the maneuvering, that was the poster I was responding to. He went right for the "but Clinton" defense of Robertson, and tried to say Ol' Pat was a man of little influence. I called him on it.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 9:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The thought HAS come up that Robertson issued a "terrorist threat" under the Patriot Act. So shouldn't he... er... be detained while the courts try and figure out exactly WHEN he is due his consitutional rights? Then he can hang out at Club Gitmo and compare religions with the other inmates. I mean, detainees.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 9:46 AM

THEGREYJEDI


I agree with Mr. Robertson. It's high time we just opted for assassinations of the despots and evil people in the way of our oil acquisitions. Wouldn't it be cheaper, and cost so much less by way of the lives of our dear and precious soldiers to kill him off and set up a puppet government paid for by Our Glorious Presidente's oil interests?

As a Christian, I believe we should call for the immediate burning at the stake of anyone who would dare go against the Great Pat Robertson.

Actually, I think we should burn all the heathens, but not because Pat said so. Ok, so some of my best friends are pagans. But its the "We hate Christians" pagans that can all go jump in a tub with a toaster. Freedom of religion and expression extends to cover us white male southern Christian types just as much as it does you wussy left-leaning limp-wristers. But back to Pat. He's a total douche. He's just right this time. Way back in the day (remember the Cold War?) we had all sorts of shady types on the payroll of the government. We are the world police. I don't think it's necessary to prove an evil man is evil when dealing with the scale of dictators. It's kinda self-evident. I condone assassinations, and plan to use them in my rise to power. Go vigilantism! Justice is far, far more important than Law.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
Real Fans Wait - 09/30/05

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Friday, August 26, 2005 10:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
The thought HAS come up that Robertson issued a "terrorist threat" under the Patriot Act. So shouldn't he... er... be detained while the courts try and figure out exactly WHEN he is due his consitutional rights? Then he can hang out at Club Gitmo and compare religions with the other inmates. I mean, detainees.

What? Apply the Patriot Act across the board like that?
Shirley, you must be joking!

Personally, I NEVER liked Pat Robertson.

I was always partial to Roy Rogers, myself.

Yippeee kai-yeaaa motherChrisisall

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Friday, August 26, 2005 11:02 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreyJedi:
It's high time we just opted for assassinations of the despots and evil people in the way of our oil acquisitions.

GJ, you're starting to sound an awful lot like Agent Johnson.

No, the other one.

I was in High School, head Chrisisall

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Friday, August 26, 2005 12:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

As a Christian, I believe we should call for the immediate burning at the stake of anyone who would dare go against the Great Pat Robertson. Actually, I think we should burn all the heathens, but not because Pat said so.
Do you have any idea how much air pollution this would cause? You'd definitely have to apply for an open burning permit!

"And stop calling me Shirley!" (Airplane)

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Friday, August 26, 2005 5:12 PM

THEGREYJEDI


well of course! All completely legal and above-board. full permits as applicable. No sense in having the law if I can't manipulate it for my own means. I am a Republican after all.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
Real Fans Wait - 09/30/05

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Friday, August 26, 2005 6:09 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Anyone here read 'Stranger in a Strange Land'? Where religious leaders barely distinguishable from circus carnies are consulted by the president's wife for divine guidance on government policy ...



Close but no cigar. I can't let Saint Bob be misinterpreted. There is a Church of the New Revelation (the Fosterites) which is based quite a bit on carnies, pep rallies, etc. But Mrs. Douglas consults Madame Alexandria Vesant (aka Becky Vesey, who had in fact worked with a carny mentalist and magician) a talented astrologer, for guidance.

Heinlein did have an interesting take on religion, and his future history did include a takeover by a theocracy in the USA.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 26, 2005 6:18 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
I think we should ask Ole' Pat (and the other eminent theologians of the Christian Right) if the duly, democratically elected president of another sovereign state (who just happens to dislike us, go figure) is the only person they feel it's ok to kill, or do they have a list of folk it's ok to kill.



Heck yes. In no particular order:

Gays
Those who support gay marriage or other gay rights
Abortion providers
Birth control providers
Those who support reproductive rights
People with HIV/AIDS
People who want to cure HIV/AIDS
Secularists
Non-Christians
Not correctly doctrinal Christians
You
Me

Face it, If you ain't Pat's kind of people, you're better off dead (in his opinion)





"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 26, 2005 6:47 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD


"'Cause he helps put the fear of God in the common man
Snatchin' up money everywhere he can. . ."


Televangelists are the scum of the Earth. From Jimmy "I'd Kill A Homosexual" Swaggart to Jerry "Everyone I Hate Was Responsible For 9/11" Falwell, it amazes me that these hypocritical asshats manage to stay in business.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

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