REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Spy plane recons over Iran; Guess who's next?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, July 7, 2005 14:51
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3924
PAGE 2 of 2

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 11:50 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:


Quote:



It may not be against it but its certainly ignorant of it. "Lighter", "Flexible" and "More Responsive" are common buzz words they say when their are going to screw you on something.




I find it hilarious that the Leftists, the anti-war crowd, and/or the anti-President Bush bunch simultaneously describe President Bush as a simpleton while ascribing him with all sorts of detailed means on "screwing people". Come on, he is a busy guy and that is why he has a staff. If you have a problem with Defense policy, it is with SecDef Rumsfeld or someone on his staff like ASD Gordon England.



Kind of a non sequitur about Bush's intellect here, maybe Lynch meant it as a joke?

Nonetheless, I'm reminded of what a friend told me about Bush after travelling with him for a few weeks during the 2000 campain. He told me that contrary to popular (you might say leftist) belief, Bush is not a simpleton at all, he's actually pretty clever, pretty sharp and a funny guy to talk to while you ride a bus cross country. What my friend observed was that Bush's cleverness and sharpness evaporated when he was called upon to b.s. When b.s.-ing he got all mush-mouthed and started repeating phrases, and losing his train of thought completely. Basically, what he was saying was that Bush was a bad liar. I think he's gotten better at it though. As Rue said, success has emboldened all of them.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 12:45 PM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:
Quote:

Originally posted by GunRunner:

Just because the Navy managed it doesn’t mean the USAF didn't lay down the law on the engine issue. The Navy was the only branch that had a need for a twin-engine system and it came down to no aircraft or one engine. Anyways a single reliable engine doesn’t matter much when you have to fly it home with a dozen 20mm holes through it.

Which is the "last twin engine Navy aircraft program" your talking about? The F/A-18? I didn't realize that turned out bad?




http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/a-12.htm

To my knowledge, A-12 is the all time king of acquisition disasters. There may exist bigger fiascos but I doubt they are common knowledge.

The Navy has accepted single engine aircraft before such as A-7 so its not unprecendented. True, two engine can be better than one but no aircraft because it cost too much isn't that great a deal. Having two engines is no guarrantee of safety either.

Ah yes the A-12. You confused me when you said the last twin-engine program since the Super Hornet was put in to production after the A-12 was canceled.

And the A-7s were around since the navy needed a small light bomber that could operate off smaller carriers that couldn’t handle the F-4 and A-6, same thing with the A-4.


Quote:

Quote:



The AIM-120 is meant to replace the AIM-7, if its meant to replace the Phoenix its totally the wrong system for it, it lacks he range and can't be carried on the same launchers. It maybe old but its still one of the best systems to intercept strike aircraft with.




AIM-120 is/was meant to replace a whole host of AA missiles (AIM-7) and even some air defense missiles. I thought AIM-54 was included and am fairly certain the Navy drove a bunch of requirements into it for that reason. AIM-26? I don't know all the specifics.

The AIM-120 was meant to replace and superseded a bunch of NATO missiles but it never truly replaced the AIM-54, I've seen F-14s armed with both AIM-120s and AIM-54s, however the 120 probably will replace the 54 simply because no successor ether missile or interceptor aircraft has been developed.

Quote:

AIM-26? I don't know all the specifics.

The AIM-26 was a Nuke and the conventional versions were used by the Swiss.

Quote:



It may not be against it but its certainly ignorant of it. "Lighter", "Flexible" and "More Responsive" are common buzz words they say when their are going to screw you on something.




I find it hilarious that the Leftists, the anti-war crowd, and/or the anti-President Bush bunch simultaneously describe President Bush as a simpleton while ascribing him with all sorts of detailed means on "screwing people". Come on, he is a busy guy and that is why he has a staff. If you have a problem with Defense policy, it is with SecDef Rumsfeld or someone on his staff like ASD Gordon England.

If he expects to command the US military he should be familiar with every aspect of its operations. Maybe I just have a better work ethic them him.

Quote:

The Transformation policy traces back to the 1991/1992 Defense Planning Guide which I am sure SergeantX will fill you in on if you ask (or not).
Naw it dates back to ADM. Rickover’s latter years in office IE the 688 class subs, when we started trading well rounded military forces for what we think is the current big threat.

Quote:

Yes, the Cold War is over. We won, thank goodness and President Ronald Reagan.

I thought the people living under communism won?

Of course you unfortunately need to give credit to Nixon for wining the Cold War since he helped authorize operations like “Ivy Bells” which helped put Reagan in to the position he was in.

Quote:

Now the messy part begins. The US is still doing the heavy lifting in making the world a safer place. As you noted, the weapon systems did not go away -- they simply changed ownership. Like those nasty supersonic cruise missiles that Ukraine recently sold Iran and North Korea.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,15741164,00.html] The KH-55 is subsonic, and luckily only Russian owned submarines have the torpedo tubes capable of loading the sub launched version (SS-N-21 'SAMPSON') and that’s the only real way of successfully using a nuke with one of these in an offensive way since there are so many ways to find and kill and aircraft. They are nasty on paper but leave a lot to be desired…

EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 1:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:
Where did President Bush get this certain indisputable fact that Iraq possessed no WMD capabilities? The UN? The French? The Russians? Did Saddam Hussein call him up on the phone and promise he had no WMD?


Saddam tried, but the line was busy.
Was it you said, 'be serious'?

You're obviously a well educated and very knowledgable young man, but you get lost in the details, all of which you and the rest of us will never know, so that a complete and understandable picture is not, at this time, possible.

However, there are but three possibilities concerning the existance of WMD's (please correct me if I leave any out),
1. The WMD's are buried somwhere so deep and so secret that they are inacessable and unfindable to anyone until a time in the future when the heat is off and they are to be unearthed and retrieved to put a final end to us western devils.
2. Our intellegence and inspection teams and informers and satelites are all so incompetant they can't detect the movement of what must be hundreds of vehicles moving WMD parts and accessories (sold seperatly, of course) great distances to dubious hideouts.
3. WMD"s (in useable, complete and threatening condition) never existed in any real numbers.

I'll go with the answer that makes the most sense.

Did I miss anything?

Might have, ain't perfect Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 3:56 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Quote:

If so, that is one hell of an assertion. Can you back that up? I doubt it. Where is the evidence?
Many moons ago I started a series of posts which time-demands did not allow me to finish. I could probably go back and dig up the ones up I did post that contained extensive quotes directly from government documents. The first posts dealt with yellowcake, aluminum tubes, and the fact that Bush had been told unequivocally by intelligence harmonization not once, but twice, to remove those references from his speeches because the data did not support him. In fact he specifically changed the wording to skirt the problematic items - yellowcake became uranium, Niger became Africa, US intelligence became British intelligence - in order to put the ideas out there that he knew weren't true.

I got this information from the Senate Report and other official and unclassified documentation.

If you want, I will try to retrieve my earlier posts.

Additionally, there is significant proof regarding other WMDs and Bush's (and Cheney's, Rice's, Powell's, Rumsfeld's et al) claims. I still don't have the time to go through the various documents and pull out the relevant quotes for each item. You will have to either read the documents for yourself, or wait an indeterminate for the additional items.

So, in sum, the evidence is in large government documents.

Rue

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 4:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Quote:

rue, while I agree totally with the bulk of what you said, don't you think the term 'sociopaths' is a little strong?
If you can laugh over executing a woman there is something seriously missing in your psyche.
But there is more. Watch him giving a speech someday. Can you find a single genuine response, or does it all have a vaguely synthetic, manipulative oily sheen? IMHO

Rue

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 4:31 PM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:
Quote:

Originally posted by GunRunner:
Of course you unfortunately need to give credit to Nixon for wining the Cold War since he helped authorize operations like “Ivy Bells” which helped put Reagan in to the position he was in.




No unfortunately about it, President Nixon was a genius with his foreign policy strategies. I give him due credit. Playing China against the USSR was a master stroke.

Yea bad people can do good things and vice versa.

Quote:

Quote:




The KH-55 is subsonic, and luckily only Russian owned submarines have the torpedo tubes capable of loading the sub launched version (SS-N-21 'SAMPSON') and that’s the only real way of successfully using a nuke with one of these in an offensive way since there are so many ways to find and kill and aircraft. They are nasty on paper but leave a lot to be desired…




Of course, you are right on the Kh-55 being subsonic. I confused it with the SS-N-22 Sunburns we were buying from the Russians a few years ago for target practice (no kidding).

Yep, maybe they even loaded them on the Hiddensee for some seriously realistic combat exercises! If I was CNO I would load the damn things on our ships!

Quote:

Damn Russians made some many fricking missiles you need a playbook to keep them all straight.

Yep its called Jane's and the USNI- their never out of my arms reach when I'm on the computer.

EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:52 PM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:
Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:


Quote:



It may not be against it but its certainly ignorant of it. "Lighter", "Flexible" and "More Responsive" are common buzz words they say when their are going to screw you on something.




I find it hilarious that the Leftists, the anti-war crowd, and/or the anti-President Bush bunch simultaneously describe President Bush as a simpleton while ascribing him with all sorts of detailed means on "screwing people". Come on, he is a busy guy and that is why he has a staff. If you have a problem with Defense policy, it is with SecDef Rumsfeld or someone on his staff like ASD Gordon England.



Kind of a non sequitur about Bush's intellect here, maybe Lynch meant it as a joke?

Nonetheless, I'm reminded of what a friend told me about Bush after travelling with him for a few weeks during the 2000 campain. He told me that contrary to popular (you might say leftist) belief, Bush is not a simpleton at all, he's actually pretty clever, pretty sharp and a funny guy to talk to while you ride a bus cross country. What my friend observed was that Bush's cleverness and sharpness evaporated when he was called upon to b.s. When b.s.-ing he got all mush-mouthed and started repeating phrases, and losing his train of thought completely. Basically, what he was saying was that Bush was a bad liar. I think he's gotten better at it though. As Rue said, success has emboldened all of them.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.



You don't see the contradiction? How can President Bush be the simpleton the Leftists, et al, describe him to be one day and the "evil genius" causing all sorts of sophisticated problems for the same people the next day? Is he smart or dumb? Pick one!



Pick one? I did. Not dumb, clever. Dang it, Lynch, would ya please read my posts before you go off?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, July 6, 2005 9:10 PM

SERGEANTX


Personally, I've never felt Bush was dumb. I think it's an act. I think he knows his half-wit persona plays well with his core constituency, so he milks it for all it's worth.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 7, 2005 5:22 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:
Lets not rehash the same old WMD in Iraq story again though. This thread is about supposedly about Iran.


Fair enough, sir.

The sometimes reasonable Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 7, 2005 5:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Quote:

rue, while I agree totally with the bulk of what you said, don't you think the term 'sociopaths' is a little strong?
If you can laugh over executing a woman there is something seriously missing in your psyche.
But there is more. Watch him giving a speech someday. Can you find a single genuine response, or does it all have a vaguely synthetic, manipulative oily sheen? IMHO


I was actually kind of agreeing with you. To be a 'highly motivated Capitalist Fundamentalist Extremist' you'd sorta have to have no real conscience, other than a make-believe one that would provide the excuses for whatever you wanted to do.

It's all a numbers game Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 7, 2005 2:51 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Ah. My bad. I missed your meaning.
Rue

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
China
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:10 - 447 posts
Biden
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:03 - 853 posts
Elections; 2024
Thu, March 28, 2024 21:07 - 2072 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Thu, March 28, 2024 21:02 - 54 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 17:24 - 3413 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 17:20 - 6155 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Thu, March 28, 2024 16:32 - 9 posts
Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
Thu, March 28, 2024 12:44 - 1 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL