What is a "leftist"? A fascist? A cultural Marxist?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, July 27, 2025 20:01
VIEWED: 7237
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SIGNYM

Friday, August 31, 2018 8:53 PM (P)

SGG veered in that direction in this thread http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62644 but I think it might deserve it's own discussion. People throw these terms out without, IMHO, knowing that they mean.

There are many different flavors of "leftist" just as there are different flavors of "authoritarianism", and they are NOT opposites of each other, just as DNC/RNC and RINO/DINO aren't opposites of each other either.

Perhaps these terms deserves a discussion.

*****
I'll start first with the easier terms: Nazi and fascist.

"Nazi" and "fascist" DON'T mean "any group that I don't like" or "racist/genocidal" or even "authoritarian". They have specific historical meanings, and they are political-economic approaches that were responding to the economic distresses of the day.

BOTH of them imply a melding an authoritarian state with corporations/the economy.

*****

"NAZI" is a contraction of "national socialist". We can parse the term from its historic counterparts: NATIONAL socialism versus INTERNATIONAL socialism (commonly called "communism" here, but so such political/economic form has ever existed) and SOCIALISM versus CAPITALISM (but no such form has ever existed in its pure state either, altho early Colonial America came close). Nazism and "communism" were fierce enemies of that day, since national socialists rejected the concept of class warfare.

Nazism developed in Germany because Germany was in extremis (in its death-throes) because of hyperinflation/ reparations payments from WWI. I didn't know anyone personally who lived in that era, but hubby worked for a Hungarian who was a young boy in Germany at that time, and they were boiling and eating shoe leather because they were starving. And then there are (true) stories of people needing wheelbarrows full of cash to buy a loaf of bread, and the man who went to the bank to withdraw his life-savings and then went to a coffee shop, bought a cup of coffee with those life-savings, drank it, and blew his brains out.

Hitler promised to make things right: He stabilized the mark by backing it with gold, and created German firms like "Volkswagen" ("people's car") to re-engage the industrial process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen Unfortunately, his hyper-nationalism also included a giant dollop of racism and war-mongering.

But if you were to encapsulate its defining economic meme it would be corporations in service to the state.

*****

FASCISM was the political-economic form in Italy as practiced by Benito Mussolini. It comes from the word

Quote:
fascio meaning a bundle of rods, ultimately from the Latin word fasces. This was the name given to political organizations in Italy known as fasci, groups similar to guilds or syndicates.

Fascism ALSO requires a blending of state and corporations, but in its case the defining economic meme is the state in service to corporations

*****

So, just to clarify, its inaccurate to called racist groups "fascist" or nazi" unless they also propose an economic component which melds the state and corporations. For the sake of making a clean argument, you should just call them "racists" or "racial supremacists" or "authoritarians" or "proto-tyrants" or whatever applies.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 31, 2018 8:58 PM (P)

One aspect of "leftism". I think this song would be called "cultural Marxism"

IMAGINE: JOHN LENNON

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You...

[Chorus]
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

[Verse 2]
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

[Chorus]
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Friday, August 31, 2018 11:21 PM (P)

"Cultural Marxism" isn't a meaningless phrase. It refers to Marx's description of capitalism's driving force to reduce most people to INTERCHANGEABLE WIDGETS ... to destroy all distinctions based on religion, nation, language, gender, "born" class, natural talents or acquired skills ... even family relations ... to money. I can see that today in the relentless reduction to the lowest common denominator of skill ... the use of brainless Microsoft software and braindead technicians instead of proficient and knowledgeable programmers, for example; and the substitution of bureaucracy for skillful management.

Marx says it best ...

Quote:
The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his “natural superiors”, and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment”. It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervour, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom — Free Trade.

... The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honoured and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage labourers.

The bourgeoisie has torn away from the family its sentimental veil, and has reduced the family relation to a mere money relation.

The bourgeoisie has disclosed how it came to pass that the brutal display of vigour in the Middle Ages, which reactionaries so much admire, found its fitting complement in the most slothful indolence. It has been the first to show what man’s activity can bring about. It has accomplished wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, and Gothic cathedrals; it has conducted expeditions that put in the shade all former Exoduses of nations and crusades.

... Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.

The need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the entire surface of the globe. It must nestle everywhere, settle everywhere, establish connexions everywhere.

The bourgeoisie has through its exploitation of the world market given a cosmopolitan character to production and consumption in every country. To the great chagrin of Reactionists, it has drawn from under the feet of industry the national ground on which it stood. All old-established national industries have been destroyed or are daily being destroyed. They are dislodged by new industries, whose introduction becomes a life and death question for all civilised nations, by industries that no longer work up indigenous raw material, but raw material drawn from the remotest zones; industries whose products are consumed, not only at home, but in every quarter of the globe. In place of the old wants, satisfied by the production of the country, we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant lands and climes. In place of the old local and national seclusion and self-sufficiency, we have intercourse in every direction, universal inter-dependence of nations. And as in material, so also in intellectual production. The intellectual creations of individual nations be

WISHIMAY

Saturday, September 1, 2018 4:52 AM (P)

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:50 AM (P)

If you read Marx, or Adam Smith, Rousseau, Keynes, or any of the other economic and/or social philosophers, you'd realize that people "back then" were pretty damn smart. Smarter, I think, than anyone today.

*****

So, what is a LIBERAL??

LIBERALS, generally-speaking, want to keep all of the underlying basic political-economics THE SAME. "Revolt" isn't in their playbook; their main anxiety to "help victims" stems from their equally-fervent anxiety to prevent a revolution. There are other aspects of "liberalism" which are equally well-founded in the current corporatist paradigm: Individualism; a focus on being a "consumer"; and (formerly) a belief in civil rights and tolerance.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:53 AM (P)

It's that russian upbringing that throws you off sig. That and all the pills you must be taking. Try cutting back if you can. It's warping your brain.

T

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:11 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
video: Dancing with Myself

So sad & so true!

Words mean what people think they mean... and they also don't. "Socialist" for instance. Fux & the GOP have completely "redefined" that word and made it's real, original, accurate meaning no longer viable. To them and their zombie brain dead followers, it now means; "horrible, ugly, not good!" whatever small negative words their followers can understand. Funny enough, "Obama," and "Clinton," and many other words the GOP is afraid of now mean exactly the same thing to your average Deplorable minion. The New Deplorable dictionary is like 10 pages.

Trump followers don't need no stinking accurate definitions!

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:20 PM (P)

In fact, one of the most trenchant observers of early America was Alexis de Tocqueville, a French nobleman who traveled America widely (1831-1832) originally to observe and write a report on American prisons but who wrote a book on American democracy instead. He wrote such pithy statements as these

Quote:
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

“Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”

“There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.”

AND THIS ONE, THUGR, ESPECIALLY FOR YOU

Quote:
“I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.”

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:35 PM (P)

Gotta laugh. Sig posts the opinion of a French man from the mid 1800's as though it is gospel. Why, because it is a negative statement about America.

I've said for years that that is all Sig is about so there is no surprise there. It's all she does here. Why, because her heart is deeply embedded in Russia and as we've learned from her, they are desperately envious of America and Americans.

comrade

T

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:40 PM (P)

The word SOCIALISM, as originally coined, means OWNERSHIP OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BY THE STATE.

Since then, nations which practiced socialism ... for example, the old Soviet Union and revolutionary China under Mao .... in which farms, factories, railroads, housing, energy etc were all owned by the state ... were called "communist" by the west, atho they were (in actuality) socialist.

Nations which practice "liberalism" ... that is, intervention by the state to "even out" living standards and provide generous welfare benefits ... are called "socialist" or "mixed" economies, even as the state owns very little (if any at all) of the "means of production.

Liberals themselves have backed away from calling themselves liberals, and started calling themselves "progressives", which has no meaning at all except "a liberal who is too afraid to call themselves liberal".

Now they think they are proudly reclaiming the word "socialist" when in reality they should be reclaiming the word "liberal".

So all of the words have been shifted to mean "more" than what they originally meant, since the wealthy elite have sought to give anyone who wants to rein in their power a bad name, and "the people" ... with no knowledge of history ... let them redefine the vocabulary.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 1, 2018 8:06 PM (P)

So there is a historically established "capitalist v anticapitalist" axis. But there is at least a few more axes of political-economic thought, one being "centralization v decentralization" and "authoritarianism v anarchy".

This has to do with SGG's reference to the term "leftist". Now there are about as many definitions of the word "leftist" as there are people who use the term, but it originally referred to anti-capitalists.

Here are some definitions of "leftist"

Quote:
The fundamental differences between left-wing and right-wing ideologies center around the the rights of individuals vs. the power of the government. Left-wing beliefs are liberal in that they believe society is best served with an expanded role for the government. People on the right believe that the best outcome for society is achieved when individual rights and civil liberties are paramount and the role — and especially the power — of the government is minimized.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Left_Wing_vs_Right_Wing So in THIS definition, "leftist" means those who believe in a strong central government.

THIS definition also defines "leftism" as a system of authoritarianism

Quote:
Because the term “left” is already widely used to denote social systems and ideologies of force (e.g., socialism, communism, “progressivism”), and the term “right” is substantially used to denote social systems and ideologies of freedom (e.g., capitalism, classical liberalism, constitutional republicanism), the best approach for advocates of freedom is not to develop new terminology for the political spectrum, but to define the existing terminology with respect to political essentials—and to claim the extreme right end of the spectrum as rightfully and exclusively ours.

https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2012/06/political-left-and-right-
properly-defined/

A different definition

Quote:
Political scientists' general consensus is that "left wing" includes liberals, progressives, socialists and communists, and the "right wing" includes conservatives, traditionalists, reactionaries and fascists. The spectrum also includes moderate, center-right, center-left, far-right and far-left politics.

https://www.reference.com/government-politics/difference-between-left-
wing-right-wing-efb4493019ba1505#

The historic roots of the terms "left" and "right" when it comes to politics.

Quote:
The left-right political spectrum was born during the French Revolution of 1789. In the French National Assembly, supporters of the king sat on the president's right, and supporters of the revolution sat on his left. In 1791, the National Assembly was replaced by the Legislative Assembly, and the seating arrangement continued, this time with moderates occupying the center seats.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Saturday, September 1, 2018 8:22 PM (P)

Sell your shit elsewhere comrade sig because you spewing bullshit about others is what you do. It's all you do.

T

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 1, 2018 8:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Sell your shit elsewhere comrade sig, because you spewing bullshit about others is what you do.

Spewing bullshit about others??? Son, that is the ONLY thing you do around here! And THAT is a provable fact!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 1, 2018 9:04 PM (P)

So the interesting thing is that, while I find Marx's description of capitalism was not only perfectly spot-on and predictive of trends that we still see today, it is THIS part that I disagree with ...

Quote:
Marx ALSO projected that true communism would only come about after the entire world was under the yoke of the capitalist. When all distinctions of religion, nation, gender, age, language, and talent were destroyed (by the capitalist) ONLY THEN would the world's workers see their common identity and revolt against the capitalist, no longer divided by artificial barriers but united in their common economic interest.

So efforts to erase distinctions among people and to eliminate any group affiliations are (supposedly) in the (short term) interests of capitalists but in the (long term) interest of the internationalized "woke" worker.

I flew this past a couple of people who've actually read Marx (unlike me :embarrassed:) to make sure that I accurately described the gist of his predictions, and it's at the trend of interconnected supply-chains, internationalized finance, and globalized corporate governance where I dug in my heels.

I know that I've mentioned before a conversation that I had with BYTEMITE, and the discussion came to a point where the essential conflict (for me) was the internationalized future as described by Marx (and supported by people like GSTRING and SECOND) versus the "reactionary" move towards nationalism which- presumably- is an attempt to step backwards towards the past and away from the glorious future that awaits us all* (*except the capitalist). It occurred to me that if we can't manage our economic future here in the USA, where we presumably have democracy and the freedom of the vote, how does some future "revolution" come about when the entire global population ... along with the entire communications network ... will be under the control of the elite? The idea that "revolution" would evolve out of that scenario is a pipe dream ... a case of wishful thinking on Marx's part, where he insisted on pulling a happy ending from the extremely bleak future that he predicted.

So, if anything, I'm an ANTI-Marxist, I guess, a point which those who are arguing with the cardboard cutouts in their heads fail to notice.

There is another thing that Marx doesn't take into account, and that is the real world larger than our social/political/economic systems, and that is OUR ENVIRONMENT.

When I look at economic evolution in the REAL world, there is a parallel with the evolution of red deer in Scotland, as studied by Clutton-Brock. In that case, the male red deer get breeding privileges and so the male deer get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger ... a rewarded genetic trend. What prevents the male red deer from becoming ginormous? TEN times the size of the female, instead of twice as large? Well, fortunately Clutton-Brock studied this herd long term, and what he found was that very large male deer required an enormous amount of food to support their extremely rapid growth, putting a strain not only on the female deer who carried them but also on local resources. During the time of the study there was a terrible blizzard which covered up the deer's food... and ALL MALES DIED EXCEPT ONE ... the puniest of the bunch, who was so small that he could survive on the same amount of food that a female could survive on. That put a big "reset" on the gene pool.

There IS something to be said for RUGGEDNESS. I know I have mentioned this many times before: "efficient" centralized production, long supply lines, just-in-time delivery, and dependence on a single currency are extremely vulnerable to shocks from the outside. It could be natural catastrophe or political upheaval or financial lock-up, but in any case the global capitalist system that Marx predicts has its own inbuilt weakness.

******

In any case ... I was thinking while I was doing dishes ... the future is

SECOND

Saturday, September 1, 2018 10:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But at some point the elite would have to look at the situation and ask themselves ... Why are we coddling/controlling this very large group of people that we don't need at all?

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

In 1938 the common man’s condition in the Soviet Union, Germany, or the United States may have been grim, but he was constantly told that he was the most important thing in the world, and that he was the future (provided, of course, that he was an “ordinary man,” rather than, say, a Jew or a woman). He looked at the propaganda posters—which typically depicted coal miners and steelworkers in heroic poses—and saw himself there: “I am in that poster! I am the hero of the future!”

But as technology makes billions of people economically irrelevant, their political power is likely to shrink. For all the success that democracies have had over the past century or more, they are blips in history. Monarchies, oligarchies, and other forms of authoritarian rule have been far more common modes of human governance.

More about why Technology favors Tyranny at
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/yuval-noah-harari-technol
ogy-tyranny/568330/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Saturday, September 1, 2018 11:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Gotta laugh. Sig posts the opinion of a French man from the mid 1800's as though it is gospel. Why, because it is a negative statement about America.

I know! That thing some people have with something they learned 40 years ago from someone who said it 100 years before that and they think it's relevant today. I want to tell them: "Get off the stage! We have a lot of great, young minds that have fresher, better ideas right now."

SIGNYM

Sunday, September 2, 2018 6:29 AM (P)

Quote:
I know! That thing some people have with something they learned 40 years ago from someone who said it 100 years before that and they think it's relevant today. I want to tell them: "Get off the stage! We have a lot of great, young minds that have fresher, better ideas right now."

YEP, those documents written in 1776 ... SO PASSE!

God, you're such a turd.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Sunday, September 2, 2018 8:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I know! That thing some people have with something they learned 40 years ago from someone who said it 100 years before that and they think it's relevant today. I want to tell them: "Get off the stage! We have a lot of great, young minds that have fresher, better ideas right now."
YEP, those documents written in 1776 ... SO PASSE!

God, you're such a turd.

Yeah sig, a document created by Americans. A living document. One subject to change if deemed necessary by two thirds of the country. And to G's point, has had several amendments. 27 to be exact.

Trust me when I say the French were not involved in any of those changes. Nor were the Russians.

T

1KIKI

Sunday, September 2, 2018 8:44 AM (P)

Philosopher who influenced the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. The Founding Fathers were heavily influenced by French philosopher Charles Secondat, Baron de Montesquieu when drafting the Constitution, most notably in connection with the separation of powers.

THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

SIGNYM

Sunday, September 2, 2018 10:30 AM (P)

Curiously, some of the philosophy of governance was developed in France, not England, by the above philosopher that KIKI mentioned, but if you were to read The Social Contract by Rousseau you would find a strong thread of "human rights" ("Man is everywhere born free and [but] everywhere he is in chains" relies on the concept of "natural" rights.)

The reason why that is curious is because at the time that French philosophers were developing the concepts of natural rights in conjunction with the American Founding Fathers (Ben Franklin was our ambassador to France), and the French government was providing aid to the rebellious colonialists (as a way to "stick it" to their enemies, the Brits) France itself was a strict monarchy. A monarchy which would shortly become extremely unpopular ("Let them eat cake") and convulsed in Revolution (1789) which started by lopping heads off the hated nobility but ran totally out of control, itself convulsed with internal denunciation and turmoil.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Sunday, September 2, 2018 12:13 PM (P)

Quote:
But at some point the elite would have to look at the situation and ask themselves ... Why are we coddling/controlling this very large group of people that we don't need at all?- SIGNY

In 1938 the common man’s condition in the Soviet Union, Germany, or the United States may have been grim, but he was constantly told that he was the most important thing in the world, and that he was the future (provided, of course, that he was an “ordinary man,” rather than, say, a Jew or a woman). He looked at the propaganda posters—which typically depicted coal miners and steelworkers in heroic poses—and saw himself there: “I am in that poster! I am the hero of the future!”

But as technology makes billions of people economically irrelevant, their political power is likely to shrink. For all the success that democracies have had over the past century or more, they are blips in history. Monarchies, oligarchies, and other forms of authoritarian rule have been far more common modes of human governance. - SECOND

But thinking about the practical aspects of this .... the elite are not about the let "the masses" starve to death, nor are they about to start frog-marching people by the millions into "work camps" because that is the SURE way to revolution. That would precipitate the very thing that they're trying to avoid.

Bummer!

So the elite would either have to engineer a quick death for a lot of people ... a pandemic, for example, that kills billions ... or a sudden decrease in fertility. Or cause "the masses" to kill each other by engineering an international war or a bunch of civil wars in which billions are killed.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, September 2, 2018 3:50 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I know! That thing some people have with something they learned 40 years ago from someone who said it 100 years before that and they think it's relevant today. I want to tell them: "Get off the stage! We have a lot of great, young minds that have fresher, better ideas right now."
YEP, those documents written in 1776 ... SO PASSE!

God, you're such a turd.

Gawd you're so outdated. Get off the stage already - your time has passed.

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, September 2, 2018 5:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Yeah sig, a document created by Americans. A living document. One subject to change if deemed necessary by two thirds of the country. And to G's point, has had several amendments. 27 to be exact.

Trust me when I say the French were not involved in any of those changes. Nor were the Russians.

100% on the money, T. I wouldn't wish for McCain to be dead but I'm so glad he's no longer in congress. I see it in both partys: Pelosi, Schumer, Hatch, McConnell, old thinkers from both sides that are still fighting old fights in old ways.
How can we expect change if we are stuck in the past?

THG

Monday, September 3, 2018 12:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Yeah sig, a document created by Americans. A living document. One subject to change if deemed necessary by two thirds of the country. And to G's point, has had several amendments. 27 to be exact.

Trust me when I say the French were not involved in any of those changes. Nor were the Russians.

100% on the money, T. I wouldn't wish for McCain to be dead but I'm so glad he's no longer in congress. I see it in both partys: Pelosi, Schumer, Hatch, McConnell, old thinkers from both sides that are still fighting old fights in old ways.
How can we expect change if we are stuck in the past?

Sig and kiki are just upset they can't point to a Frenchman's signature on the constitution. They were all Americans so they are trying to expand the conversation to save face.

I don't disagree with the need for new blood G but understanding the history of this country is necessary to moving it forward. Benjamin Franklin said "we gave you a republic. Lets see if you can keep it." Some are only caught up in their own wants and not what would be best to maintain this republic.

T

SIGNYM

Monday, September 3, 2018 12:24 AM (P)

Quote:
How can we expect change if we are stuck in the past?- GSTRING

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them. - George Santayana

I have never seen two more obdurately ignorant people than you two! You refuse to read about history, or even refer to a dictionary once in a while. Instead, you close your eyes and plug your ears whining Nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you any time anyone puts information in front of you that just doesn't fit in that tiny echo-chamber of yours.

No wonder you run around in circles lying and babbling bullshit!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Monday, September 3, 2018 1:22 PM (P)

I agree with parts and disagree with parts, but here is ONE description of liberals

Quote:
"Not to know what happened before you were born is to remain forever a child," Cicero astutely observed. For many self-described progressives today, however, this seems not to be a drawback. On the contrary, like adolescents -- insisting that they are grown-ups when their parents get in the way of their fun, but then running home for all their basic needs and creature comforts -- such people seem to give no thought to the past and equally little to the future.

Many people like this are said to suffer from a "Peter Pan Syndrome": the inability or unwillingness to grow up. In thought, they seem to lean to the political left. They want the government to take on the role of parent, even if that involves maxing out the country's "credit cards," so that even for a short time, they can live beyond what they earn.

Possibly in a hurry not to concern themselves with "dreary details," they pressed for a huge health-care bill, passed in 2010, that forever changed how we receive - or do not receive - medical care. It seems the details of the bill were too time-consuming and complex for the world of tweets and sound bites for them to pay attention to what it actually contained. When the bill was being debated, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi famously said, "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

Many of these children in adult bodies were told, and actually believed, that better health care for everyone, including an unlimited number of illegal immigrants, would be attainable at a low cost, if only the government were to run it. That Medicare and Medicaid, both of which the U.S. government currently runs -- as well as the UK's National Health Service -- are going broke does not appear to have occurred to them. So they persist in their fantasy that government-controlled health care is not an ill but a cure.

If the government ran healthcare as a service instead of as an excuse to hemorrhage money into the private sector, it probably WOULD be run better.

Quote:
Their fantasy is not restricted to the realm of health care. Many of these children in adult bodies believe that many, if not all, major aspects of the economy would be more efficient if the government ran them. This is in spite of the fact that the facilities currently run by the government -- from the Department of Veterans Affairs to the Department of Motor Vehicles -- are inefficient, unhelpful or sometimes even downright hostile -- to the people they are meant to serve.

The biggest problem with government institutions is the extreme difficulty in getting anyone - including contractors - fired. If they could fix that problem, I think it would work a lot better.

Quote:
Many children in adult bodies also seem not to know that Socialism failed in the Soviet Union, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania, Albania, Bulgaria, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and Cuba, and is now failing in Venezuela. Yet, illogically, they appear to believe that they themselves could make it work. The irrational wish is evidently stronger than rational arithmetic.

Compare "socialist" China's progress to India's, I think a good case can be made for socialism.

Quote:
These victims of arrested emotional development seem to confuse good motives with good results.

I agree there. When they look at the clusterfucks in the Mideast (assuming that they actually bother to check out recent history the excuse seems to be We meant well

Quote:
They want better health care for a greater number of people at a lesser cost; so they fantasize that they can achieve it without denying care to those who are too old, too sick or too expensive to receive it. They kind-heartedly want a "more equal distribution of wealth"; so they fantasize that they can maneuver it wit

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Monday, September 3, 2018 5:04 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
How can we expect change if we are stuck in the past?- GSTRING
Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them. - George Santayana

I have never seen two more obdurately ignorant people than you two! You refuse to read about history, or even refer to a dictionary once in a while. Instead, you close your eyes and plug your ears whining Nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you any time anyone puts information in front of you that just doesn't fit in that tiny echo-chamber of yours.

No wonder you run around in circles lying and babbling bullshit!

I think like almost everyone else in the world, I've heard that phrase about a billion times by now. It kind of loses it's value when you realize that it has no value other than to sound clever. You think it's ever changed the minds of tyrants or evil people? Naw, just something pithy for people like you to trot out like you have some special knowledge. You continue to prove your knowledge is wide but superficial at best. You're more like a Xerox machine just making copies. Concepts? Understanding? Xerox doesn't do concepts!

SIGGY's lies in this post:
"You refuse to read about history, or even refer to a dictionary once in a while."

Siggy has probably said: "I like lying better than chocolate!" or "Lying is my jam!"

Have you heard this lil' chestnut: "A corrupt mind corrupts all knowledge?" You should commit it to memory.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, September 3, 2018 6:00 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
How can we expect change if we are stuck in the past?- GSTRING
Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them. - George Santayana

I have never seen two more obdurately ignorant people than you two! You refuse to read about history, or even refer to a dictionary once in a while. Instead, you close your eyes and plug your ears whining Nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you any time anyone puts information in front of you that just doesn't fit in that tiny echo-chamber of yours.

No wonder you run around in circles lying and babbling bullshit!

I think like almost everyone else in the world, I've heard that phrase about a billion times by now. It kind of loses it's value when you realize that it has no value other than to sound clever. You think it's ever changed the minds of tyrants or evil people? Naw, just something pithy for people like you to trot out like you have some special knowledge. You continue to prove your knowledge is wide but superficial at best. You're more like a Xerox machine just making copies. Concepts? Understanding? Xerox doesn't do concepts!

SIGGY's lies in this post:
"You refuse to read about history, or even refer to a dictionary once in a while."

Siggy has probably said: "I like lying better than chocolate!" or "Lying is my jam!"

Have you heard this lil' chestnut: "A corrupt mind corrupts all knowledge?" You should commit it to memory.

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Monday, September 3, 2018 10:20 PM (P)

Quote:
I think like almost everyone else in the world, I've heard that phrase about a billion times by now. It kind of loses it's value when you realize that it has no value other than to sound clever.- GSTRING

OK, GSTRING, here's another little gem you should think about: When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger.

WHAT, DO YOU SUPPOSE, IS THE BASIS OF SCIENCE? To forget the cellular theory of biology, the "laws" of gravity and electromagnetism, the theory of atoms and molecules and the process of natural selection? To re-invent the same wheels over and over, and to make the same mistakes over and over, because "old knowledge" is so "passe"?

How do you suppose it's any different with the social sciences? When someone from 170 years ago manages to describe and predict in great detail what is happening today ... even the commodification of what we NOW call "intellectual property" (as if that was a new thing and a new idea) ... well, if they can predict what you can't, then maybe they know something that you don't, and maybe you should pay attention.

Quote:
You think it's ever changed the minds of tyrants or evil people? Naw, just something pithy for people like you to trot out like you have some special knowledge.

Dood, you must be braindead. Do you think that this was posted to change to minds of TYRANTS? No, it is aimed especially at people like you: people who are too arrogant to think that they have anything else to learn, and who are too stupid to understand their REAL place in the world.

Quote:
You continue to prove your knowledge is wide but superficial at best. You're more like a Xerox machine just making copies. Concepts? Understanding? Xerox doesn't do concepts!

I think SECOND takes that prize. SECOND just splatters the board with every possible GOP/Trump criticism even if it contradicts other criticisms that he posted. He doesn't really know anything about, or care anything about the actual issues in the Xerox copies with which he so liberally spams the board.

As for "shallow knowledge", you bring no information to the board, you post no opinions. You actively reject learning anything, you lie like a rug, and you're incapable of having even a two-sentence discussion. All you've managed to do is troll. So, what does that make you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Monday, September 3, 2018 10:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

OK, lets all do this. Done, that was easy. This reminds me of Jane. Let's see, nothin from nothin equals nothin.

Leave it to Jack to tee that one up for us G.

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 12:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

OK, lets all do this. Done, that was easy. This reminds me of Jane. Let's see, nothin from nothin equals nothin.

Leave it to Jack to tee that one up for us G.

The actual quote you're thinking of is "Let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin’. Carry the nothin’…"

As in "Rachel Maddow talking points" into "your empty brain". Carry the "empty virtue signalling".

Thanks for lobbing me that softball, bro.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 7:56 PM (P)

Thanks - this is so much fun....

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I think like almost everyone else in the world, I've heard that phrase about a billion times by now. It kind of loses it's value when you realize that it has no value other than to sound clever.- GSTRING
OK, GSTRING, here's another little gem you should think about: When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger.

I got a finger for ya...

Yes, SIGNYM, one of the ZeroHedge and Zero Memory, one who confuses on a regular basis who they are talking to and who said what.. just like the "doomed to repeat it" saying, I have seen you post that many, many times. It's a "saying" and that's as far as it goes.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
WHAT, DO YOU SUPPOSE, IS THE BASIS OF SCIENCE? To forget the cellular theory of biology, the "laws" of gravity and electromagnetism, the theory of atoms and molecules and the process of natural selection? To re-invent the same wheels over and over, and to make the same mistakes over and over, because "old knowledge" is so "passe"?

How do you suppose it's any different with the social sciences? When someone from 170 years ago manages to describe and predict in great detail what is happening today ... even the commodification of what we NOW call "intellectual property" (as if that was a new thing and a new idea) ... well, if they can predict what you can't, then maybe they know something that you don't, and maybe you should pay attention.

Quote:
You think it's ever changed the minds of tyrants or evil people? Naw, just something pithy for people like you to trot out like you have some special knowledge.
Dood, you must be braindead. Do you think that this was posted to change to minds of TYRANTS? No, it is aimed especially at people like you: people who are too arrogant to think that they have anything else to learn, and who are too stupid to understand their REAL place in the world.

No, eh, wrong. It was to make the sayer think they sound brilliant - that's them smelling their armpits - it has zero effect on the world (it's intention) unless people in power are motivated by it. Sugar for the ego. People like me and you and all the people on this board will have no effect on society because they are suddenly motivated by your pithy f*cking sayings. Dumb as a rock you are.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
You continue to prove your knowledge is wide but superficial at best. You're more like a Xerox machine just making copies. Concepts? Understanding? Xerox doesn't do concepts!
I think SECOND takes that prize. SECOND just splatters the board with every possible GOP/Trump criticism even if it contradicts other criticisms that he posted. He doesn't really know anything about, or care anything about the actual issues in the Xerox copies with which he so liberally spams the board.

It's great to see second completely flummox you! Don't you know by now that we can tell what you really mean by just flipping what you say? Do you know what a "tell" is?

Truly out did yourself here - rapid fire lying:

"As for "shallow knowledge", you bring no information to the board"
"you post no opinions." ^ just did
"You actively reject learning anything" - you mean I don't agree with you
"you lie like a rug" - you lie like a human
"and you're incapable of having even a two-sentence discussion." ^ that was 5 sentences
"All you've managed to do is troll." - you mean I don't agree with you
"So, what does that make you? - More honest than you!

Thanks for being such a twit!

SECOND

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
You continue to prove your knowledge is wide but superficial at best. You're more like a Xerox machine just making copies. Concepts? Understanding? Xerox doesn't do concepts!
I think SECOND takes that prize. SECOND just splatters the board with every possible GOP/Trump criticism even if it contradicts other criticisms that he posted. He doesn't really know anything about, or care anything about the actual issues in the Xerox copies with which he so liberally spams the board.

It's great to see second completely flummox you! Don't you know by now that we can tell what you really mean by just flipping what you say? Do you know what a "tell" is?

Truly out did yourself here - rapid fire lying:

"As for "shallow knowledge", you bring no information to the board"
"you post no opinions." ^ just did
"You actively reject learning anything" - you mean I don't agree with you
"you lie like a rug" - you lie like a human
"and you're incapable of having even a two-sentence discussion." ^ that was 5 sentences
"All you've managed to do is troll." - you mean I don't agree with you
"So, what does that make you? - More honest than you!

Thanks for being such a twit!

Signym is using the technique called the “firehose of falsehood.”

At first glance, Trump and Vladimir Putin seem to have wildly different communication styles. But what they share is a tendency to repeat big, obvious lies -- a tactic researchers have dubbed the “firehose of falsehood.”

Previously it was believed that big lies worked if they were close to the truth or believable, but now it seems like even obvious lies work pretty well. Whether it’s lying about Russian troops in Crimea or falsely claiming millions of people voted illegally during the 2016 election, Putin and Trump demonstrate a kind of shamelessness when it comes to telling and retelling big lies.

Read the original "firehose of falsehood" report:
www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THG

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:49 PM (P)

T

You want to know what a Marxist is comrade sig. Your boy Trump fits the description. Here's the proof. Personally as an American, I know what as you ask, and I quote, " What is a "leftist"? A fascist? A cultural Marxist ", is, and it doesn't surprise me in the least you have to ask. If you self reflect you'll find out it's who you are. That and much worse comrade.

THG

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:27 PM (P)

Toobin: Trump Could Be Impeached for Attacking Sessions

Lawyer and CNN analyst Jeffrey Toobin criticized Donald Trump on Tuesday for his attacks on Attorney General Jeff Sessions over the indictments of two Republican congressmen, saying the president's comments may be grounds for his impeachment.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/toobin-trump-could-be-impeache
d-for-attacking-sessions/ar-BBMRGHV?li=BBnb7Kz

T

SECOND

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
"you post no opinions."
Aside from personal attacks, that is. I should have posted Cue the personal attacks in 3 ...2...1..

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

Donald Trump's Friends say he is an Unhinged, Lying, Fifth-Grade, Goddamn Dumbbell.

Trump questioned why the government was spending resources in [Korea] at all. “We’re doing this in order to prevent World War III,” Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told him. After Trump left the meeting, Woodward recounts, “Mattis was particularly exasperated and alarmed, telling close associates that the president acted like — and had the understanding of — ‘a fifth- or sixth-grader.’ ”

….White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly frequently lost his temper and told colleagues that he thought the president was “unhinged,” Woodward writes. In one small group meeting, Kelly said of Trump: “He’s an idiot. It’s pointless to try to convince him of anything. He’s gone off the rails. We’re in Crazytown. I don’t even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I’ve ever had.”

….Reince Priebus, Kelly’s predecessor, fretted that he could do little to constrain Trump from sparking chaos. Woodward writes that Priebus dubbed the presidential bedroom, where Trump obsessively watched cable news and tweeted, “the devil’s workshop,” and said early mornings and Sunday evenings, when the president often set off tweetstorms, were “the witching hour.”

….Cohn came to regard the president as “a professional liar” and threatened to resign in August 2017 over Trump’s handling of a deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville.

….On March 5, Dowd and Trump attorney Jay Sekulow met in Mueller’s office with the special counsel and his deputy, James Quarles, where Dowd and Sekulow reenacted Trump’s January practice session…..Dowd then explained to Mueller and Quarles why he was trying to keep the president from testifying: “I’m not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot. And you publish that transcript, because everything leaks in Washington, and the guys overseas are going to say, ‘I told you he was an idiot. I told you he was a goddamn dumbbell. What are we dealing with this idiot for?’ ”

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/09/donald-trump-is-an-unhinged-lyi
ng-fifth-grade-goddamn-dumbbell-and-thats-just-what-his-friends-say/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

OK, lets all do this. Done, that was easy. This reminds me of Jane. Let's see, nothin from nothin equals nothin.

Leave it to Jack to tee that one up for us G.

The actual quote you're thinking of is "Let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin’. Carry the nothin’…"

As in "Rachel Maddow talking points" into "your empty brain". Carry the "empty virtue signalling".

Thanks for lobbing me that softball, bro.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Going to ignore this one, huh?

Wise move.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
That's a lie of course
Uh huh. Look GSTRING, everyone knows that trolling is your specialty, even your "friends" know that! I did a survey of your posts in RWED, just like I did a survey of THUGR's, and you're right down there with THUGR and RF.

"Everyone" hahahaha - you're even imitating Trump now!

My witch hunt is over. ^

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But if you think that you do much more than attack other people here ... yanno, actually DISCUSS A TOPIC (which you seem to be almost completely and inveterately incapable of doing) ... well then, prove it.

Yet another Siggy lie. The Russia Invades Ukraine thread - a 2 year discussion - one in which you routinely... lied. I'm sensing a pattern!

THG

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:21 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

OK, lets all do this. Done, that was easy. This reminds me of Jayne. Let's see, nothin from nothin equals nothin.

Leave it to Jack to tee that one up for us G.

The actual quote you're thinking of is "Let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin’. Carry the nothin’…"

As in "Rachel Maddow talking points" into "your empty brain". Carry the "empty virtue signalling".

Thanks for lobbing me that softball, bro.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Going to ignore this one, huh?

Wise move.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Damn you're stupid. I said it reminded me of Jayne. I in no way quoted him. Do you see quotes in my post? Please, think before posting.

And whats up with the Rachel Maddow post? Explain the importance of including that in your response to my referencing Jayne.

T

THG

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:25 AM (P)

THG

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:27 AM (P)

THG

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:28 AM (P)

1KIKI

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 2:58 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Yet another Siggy lie. The Russia Invades Ukraine thread - a 2 year discussion - one in which you routinely... lied. I'm sensing a pattern!

Prove it. Or is this just ... another lie? ... to try and support your other lies ...

THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 6:45 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

OK, lets all do this. Done, that was easy. This reminds me of Jayne. Let's see, nothin from nothin equals nothin.

Leave it to Jack to tee that one up for us G.

The actual quote you're thinking of is "Let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin’. Carry the nothin’…"

As in "Rachel Maddow talking points" into "your empty brain". Carry the "empty virtue signalling".

Thanks for lobbing me that softball, bro.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Going to ignore this one, huh?

Wise move.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Damn you're stupid. I said it reminded me of Jayne. I in no way quoted him. Do you see quotes in my post? Please, think before posting.

And whats up with the Rachel Maddow post? Explain the importance of including that in your response to my referencing Jayne.

T

Your reply was to show me that you could remember something that occurred outside of the last two years. You quoted Jayne, incorrectly, proving my point, then had a laugh with your bro about it.

I gave you the correct quote. Then I filled the three "nothin'"s with the three biggest nothin's that you've made your life about for the last two years.

It's not as funny when I have to explain it to you. Then again, if you were intelligent enough to have figured it out on your own you would have realized that we're laughing at you, not laughing with you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Thursday, September 6, 2018 7:25 AM (P)

Waiting for that proof there GEEBERS.

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Yet another Siggy lie. The Russia Invades Ukraine thread - a 2 year discussion - one in which you routinely... lied. I'm sensing a pattern!

Prove it. Or is this just ... another lie? ... to try and support your other lies ...

THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Thursday, September 6, 2018 7:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Waiting for that proof there GEEBERS.

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Yet another Siggy lie. The Russia Invades Ukraine thread - a 2 year discussion - one in which you routinely... lied. I'm sensing a pattern!
Prove it. Or is this just ... another lie? ... to try and support your other lies ...

How would I do that if the thread is gone? Will you just trust me?

THG

Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You should probably try committing anything that didn't happen in the last 2 years to memory yourself. I can't speak for what you do elsewhere, but there is zero evidence on these boards that this is something you are capable of.

OK, lets all do this. Done, that was easy. This reminds me of Jayne. Let's see, nothin from nothin equals nothin.

Leave it to Jack to tee that one up for us G.

The actual quote you're thinking of is "Let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin’. Carry the nothin’…"

As in "Rachel Maddow talking points" into "your empty brain". Carry the "empty virtue signalling".

Thanks for lobbing me that softball, bro.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Going to ignore this one, huh?

Wise move.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Damn you're stupid. I said it reminded me of Jayne. I in no way quoted him. Do you see quotes in my post? Please, think before posting.

And whats up with the Rachel Maddow post? Explain the importance of including that in your response to my referencing Jayne.

T

Your reply was to show me that you could remember something that occurred outside of the last two years.

What the fuck kind of a sick reality do you live in. Read what you've posted here. Your response to me is based on this bullshit. Get a grip on yourself. We live in a world of perceptions and yours are fucked up. How could you possible know what my motivations were? All your posts here are based on what you think I meant to do instead of what I did. No wonder your posts are full of ridiculous opinions.

T

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:33 PM (P)

Quote:
How would I do that if the thread is gone? Will you just trust me?

Why should anyone trust a proven liar?

Now, I did an internet search for that thread (RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE)and the thread did exist (as we all remember) because I found (under my name) links to that thread where I posted my (many) replies http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthreaduser.aspx?u=1606 but when I attempt to LINK to that thread ... I get an error. http://www.fireflyfans.net/GenericErrorPage.htm?aspxerrorpath=/mthread
.aspx

ONLY THE AUTHOR CAN REMOVE A THREAD FROM VIEW. AND SINCE IT WAS REMOVED ... PRESUMABLY BY YOU, SINCE YOU WERE THE AUTHOR OF THE "RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE" THREAD ... YOU APPARENTLY FEEL THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE.

Now, personally, I can't recall anything in that thread that was so god-awful that you'd want to hide it. But apparently there was something in there ...

Maybe your incessant trolling, or
Perhaps your constant lying and strawmanning, or
Maybe it was the fact that you never actually DISCUSSED much of anything, or
There is a sockpuppet ID or some personally-revealing information

... that you felt was not complimentary to your reputation here.

At some point, since I'm sure you saved the URL before you made the thread invisible, maybe you'll burp it back up again, and stop being such a coward, AS WELL AS being a liar!

But.... "trust" you? After you pulled a stunt like that? You just provided a prime example of why NOBODY should trust you! My god, you're just a little weasel!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:48 PM (P)

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58859

T

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
How would I do that if the thread is gone? Will you just trust me?
Why should anyone trust a proven liar?

Ok, show me one lie. I keep giving you this chance and you either lie or disappear. Both are pretty funny, so make me laugh.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, I did an internet search for that thread (RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE)and the thread did exist (as we all remember) because I found (under my name) links to that thread where I posted my (many) replies http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthreaduser.aspx?u=1606 but when I attempt to LINK to that thread ... I get an error. http://www.fireflyfans.net/GenericErrorPage.htm?aspxerrorpath=/mthread
.aspx

ONLY THE AUTHOR CAN REMOVE A THREAD FROM VIEW. AND SINCE IT WAS REMOVED ... PRESUMABLY BY YOU, SINCE YOU WERE THE AUTHOR OF THE "RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE" THREAD ... YOU APPARENTLY FEEL THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE.

YOU APPARENTLY DON'T KNOW WHO HAKEN IS. I suspect either you or KKKIKI asked to have it removed - totally your style when you can't win a debate. My only question is did you donate to Haken (the least you could do) to get it removed or just harassing the sh*t out of him?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, personally, I can't recall anything in that thread that was so god-awful that you'd want to hide it. But apparently there was something in there ...

There was that time you said the world would be better if we (KPO, T, and myself) were dead, do you remember that exchange?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But.... "trust" you? After you pulled a stunt like that?

Stunt like what? Sorry son, that was Haken. Besides, you already proved there's no content so why would anyone save the url? Duh?

Time for you to show me any lie of mine - come on, fetch!

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:00 PM (P)

Quote:
Ok, show me one lie. I keep giving you this chance

I've demonstrated your lies in MANY threads. Quite often, when you impute some sort of motivation or statement to me, which I never said. You'll often do that in the very thread where you claim that I made that statement, which makes your lies extremely easy to demonstrate. I'm sure you recall at least a few of those, since they happened more than once.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:26 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58859

This is not the thread you're looking for.

But it does have a number of my observations and predictions that have held up rather well over time, such as ...

Quote:
It seems to me there are several slow-motion processes going on, which are obfuscated by public statements and meaningless gestures.

The first is the western commitment to expanding NATO and encircling Russia. Since the fall of the Berlin wall, something like 13 nations have been added to NATO. The Ukraine "color revolution" fostered by the USA is just one more step in the process. The plan is to encircle Russia and then pivot to the east. USA admin wants total full spectrum dominance.

The second is the resurgence of the Russian economy and military. The Russians were not likely to just give up Sevastopol, which is their major access to the Mediterranean.

And they probably don't want eastern and southern Ukraine, which would represent a huge money pit - geostrategically it would be far better for them to have a neutral united Ukraine than a divided one, but with Kiev displacing so many people, destroying infrastructure, cutting off pension payments and access to banking, Russia may need to provide alternate services to eastern and southern Ukraine on a purely humanitarian basis, which would provide yet another pretext for Kiev to declare war.

Also, Kiev has massed its troops forward to the dividing line AFTER the cease-fire was negotiated, with responding troop movements on the other side.

The third is the polarization of Europe. Some nations are swinging towards Russia (Hungary, Serbia, Slovenia, possibly Bulgaria), others are openly pushing for aggressive anti-Russian militarization (Poland and the Baltic states). After Merkel visited Washington, where her role was explained to her by Obama, Germany swung towards the militarization camp (no matter what German FM Steinmeier says). This really showed up in the G20 meeting.

Russia, meanwhile, is isolating itself as much as possible from trade and economic fallout by reaching out to China, Brazil, and other nations with trade deals and banking systems, so there is worldwide polarization happening as well. Many of the nations formerly in the western camp are being wooed by Russia and China, this seems to include Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Alliances have become more fluid, it's almost impossible to tell who is on whose "side" now.

All of this is continuing.

Also

Quote:
Now, possibly what will happen (and this is my hope) that once the tanks and troops and air forces are bolstered and re-arranged on both sides, this will all settle down to "watchful waiting" ... "frozen conflict" status.

So far, this is what has happened.

And finally

Quote:
But there are two important indicators of immediately impending out-and-out war: the Russian cutoff of natural gas to Europe, and the acceptance of Ukraine into NATO.

As part of the NORDSTREAM2 negotiations between Merkel and Putin, the speculation is that Merkel has negotiated that Russian gas will continue to flow thru Ukraine, even after their contract with Russia expires in 2019. That will continue to give Ukraine SOME income so that it doesn't become a complete drain on the EU economy. Most likely, accession of Ukraine into NATO will alos be a non-starter.

*****
I noticed that all of "G's posts are missing from this thread as well. The same thing happened to BRENDA ... a number of her posts disappeared. Since it's unlikely that G would have picked thru this thread as well, just to remove his contributions, it IS likely that the removal of the RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE thread was just a database glitch, and not removed by GSTRING.

Sorry there, GSTRING. I withdraw my accusation that you deliberately removed the thread from view.

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:31 PM (P)

But this is all very far afield from the definitions of "leftist", fascist", "marxist", and "liberal", which was the original topic of the threa.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Friday, September 7, 2018 1:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Ok, show me one lie. I keep giving you this chance
I've demonstrated your lies in MANY threads. Quite often, when you impute some sort of motivation or statement to me, which I never said. You'll often do that in the very thread where you claim that I made that statement, which makes your lies extremely easy to demonstrate. I'm sure you recall at least a few of those, since they happened more than once.

So easy to demonstrate and yet you can't demonstrate one? Okay...

"I've demonstrated your lies in MANY threads." No you don't, you just say "you lie!" and runaway. So that's a lie.

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Friday, September 7, 2018 1:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I noticed that all of "G's posts are missing from this thread as well. The same thing happened to BRENDA ... a number of her posts disappeared. Since it's unlikely that G would have picked thru this thread as well, just to remove his contributions, it IS likely that the removal of the RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE thread was just a database glitch, and not removed by GSTRING.

Sorry there, GSTRING. I withdraw my accusation that you deliberately removed the thread from view.

Hahahahahah! So it was you who got to Haken! I thought as much. God, you're such a joke!

SIGNYM

Friday, September 7, 2018 2:40 AM (P)

And now you're defaming Haken as well.

Good lord, son, don't you ever get tired of fostering ill-will against you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, July 27, 2025 8:01 PM (P)

Opinion - Democrats want an autopsy report on the 2024 election? Here’s a free reality check.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/opinion-democrats-want-autopsy-rep
ort-143000777.html