ONE TRADING POST

Serenity Shuttle Schematic

POSTED BY: CITIZEN
UPDATED: Saturday, September 24, 2005 08:13
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Sunday, September 4, 2005 2:21 PM

CITIZEN


I'm currently working on a 3D model of serenity and I'm about to start on the Shuttles.
I was wondering if anyone has or knows how to get either an orthographic projection (like the hi-res side, top, bottom, front and back images of Serenity elsewhere on this site) or schematic views of the shuttles?
I've tried doing searches though google and other engines, and even scanned around the bluesunroom but I've found nothing.
Any help gratefully recieved.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:45 PM

IWASHUMAN2021


hey i'd like in on this project, are you using max or some other 3d software?

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Monday, September 19, 2005 6:12 AM

CITIZEN


Sorry about lateness of reply, I'm in Germany, and its hard to gain access to the internet when:
{a} You speak very little German
{b} Your here for the Oktoberfest and you are drunk most of the time...

Anyway, I'm using 3D Studio Max version 5.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Monday, September 19, 2005 7:19 AM

SAFEAT2ND


Take a spin around Scifi Meshes website. You may find something there, or at least someone that can help. I'd love to see your project.

Edit: here's the web-address http://www.scifi-meshes.com/

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Monday, September 19, 2005 5:09 PM

IWASHUMAN2021


i have max 7, so i should be able to view any files you have, however, you would not be able to open any changes i make, as max 5 is not forward compatable. if you would like i could help hook you up with a "evaluation" (nudge nugde) copy of 7.

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Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:12 AM

CITIZEN


Thanks muchly for the offer iwashuman2021, I've got a copy of 7 hanging around gathering dust, cause I didn't want to update and learn the exotricinties of a new revision half-way through a big project, ya know...

I'll get the latest version of the model up on my web space once the modeling is finished, as well as some renders on the BlueSunRoom, then it'll be on to the texturing...

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Friday, September 23, 2005 1:21 AM

MITHEL


Hi, what are you planning to do with this 3D model?

I've been considering converting my code for an online 3D virtual world (aka a MMORPG) to create a Firefly 'verse. Of course a huge portion of the work is making 3D models.

I use 3D Studio Max v3 (ok so it's old it still works). Can you export to a v3 version and could we use 3DS as a common exchange format?

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Friday, September 23, 2005 1:42 AM

CITIZEN


Possibly...
Thing is the model I'm working on is high-poly (currently around 110,000 polygons), as I'm planning to rig it and set it up for photoreal animations/stills.

As a side-note:
If your interested on working on an MMORPG checkout this site:
http://invisionfree.com/forums/Firefly/index.php

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Friday, September 23, 2005 2:07 AM

MITHEL


High poly can always be reduced if we run into performance issues. In my currently running MMORPG I made a forest of trees with 5k polygons each and at first we named it the dead forest of lag but tweaks were done and it's ok now. I'd rather have a high poly version as a starting point than no version.

Where are you getting detailed floorplans? The "Visual Companion" book doesn't have all that much for detail. And I'm waiting to get my copy of the (tabletop) roleplaying game to see what is in there.

I checked out that message forum for the Firefly MMORPG project. There are very few posts and it sounds like they are starting from scratch. I'd be starting with a *working* MMORPG and just stripping out features and adding others.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 2:21 AM

CITIZEN


Its the number of polygons on screen, not necessarily in total., I run an ATI X800 256Mb graphics card and get little more than 10-15 frames per-second running in the 3DS Max view port.
Sure you could reduce that, alot, by removing the detailing. Some of the paneling and surface detail is modelled as this gives better close up effects than bump mapping.
It would be a fair bit of work to reduce it down to managable levels, at least half the polys it currently has, assuming your not going to have many on screen.

As for Project FireFly, yea, your right, ground up but using open source and multi-platform engines. I'm currently working on a graphics demo for it.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Friday, September 23, 2005 3:16 AM

MITHEL


Aye, trying to display all the polygons at the same time is going to be slow, but with software that automatically culls what isn't visible it quickly can perform much better.

I'm using Java 3D currently so technically it can run on many platforms (Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc).

If you are willing to share your model (export to 3DS please?) I'd still like to take a look at it. I could load it up in one of my test viewers and see what kind of performance I can get.

"Project Firefly" sounds great, but I've seen hundreds of these types of projects that never got running. Hopefully it will be an exception, but in the meantime I'm still tempted to bring up something just so Firefly fans have a place to gather.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 3:39 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Mithel:
I'm using Java 3D currently so technically it can run on many platforms (Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc).


Really, cool, surprised thats faster enough, being an interpreted language, but I suppose JIT helps, good on ya.
Quote:

Originally posted by Mithel:
If you are willing to share your model (export to 3DS please?) I'd still like to take a look at it. I could load it up in one of my test viewers and see what kind of performance I can get.


Sure, no problem. The modeling isn't quite finished yet, but its not far off, couple of evenings work I think. No texturing as of yet tho...

Quote:

Originally posted by Mithel:
"Project Firefly" sounds great, but I've seen hundreds of these types of projects that never got running. Hopefully it will be an exception, but in the meantime I'm still tempted to bring up something just so Firefly fans have a place to gather.


Oh I hear ya on that score, worries me too...
But we're all fairly fanatical about it ...
Main problem is the small team, but hopefully we'll pull enough together to get people interested.


Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Friday, September 23, 2005 3:53 AM

MITHEL


A lot of people assume Java is "slow" because it is interpreted. Yes JIT helps a *lot* but most of the really hard hitting stuff is the graphics and that's done low level (either OpenGL or DirectX) and thus really has nothing to do with the higher level language wrapper. Java 3D does quite well, currently it lacks a lot of the latest high tech features but I don't miss them, all the necessary basics have been there for years.

The huge drawback of Java and Java 3D are the nightmare installation (& update) problems of Java and Java 3D for non technical users. I've seriously considered starting from scratch with another language but I haven't found another language that has decent documentation & features.

That's something I really like about the Firefly fans, we are very passionate (fanatical). If I can help with "Project Firefly" let me know (a quick look at that message board didn't seem to turn up much info).

I'd be very happy to take a look at an "unfinished" model. That would help me evaluate how well it might work if I decide to go forward with bringing up a Firefly version of "Pernica" (my currently running MMORPG).

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Friday, September 23, 2005 4:13 AM

CITIZEN


Don't talk to me about java instillations...
I'm currently doing desktop support and every single machine needs a different version, cause it seems the latest java VM is never fully backwardsly compatible...

I'm a C++ man myself, never could get along with Java, its too similar, and yet not similar enough, if you see what I mean...

Anyway, soon as I get home I'll try and pakage what I've got up in a legacy 3DS format, and put it up on my webspace.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Friday, September 23, 2005 4:23 AM

MITHEL


Great, let me know how to find your webspace. My primary domain (you can read about Pernica there) is:
http://www.starfireresearch.com

{laugh} Yes, but the Java fanatics insist there is nothing wrong with Java distribution and compatibility. Urgh.

I never could get comfortable with C or C++... never saw a nicely documented distribution that had a good API set.

I get the impression the "Firefly Project" is more directed at the "game" concept whereas I like to build conversation / chat oriented virtual worlds (major lack of emphasis on combat).

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Friday, September 23, 2005 4:47 AM

CITIZEN


Different strokes for different folks .
C++ is alot better than it used to be tho, what with the ANSI standard. You can pretty much move code from any ANSI compiler to anyother (doesn't always work like that, MS compilers especially like to break the standard).
And the API is now all standardised. The thing I like most about C++ is if you don't like the API you can write your own...

Anyway Pernica looks not bad, raises my expectations of java at least...

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Friday, September 23, 2005 5:45 AM

MITHEL


Yes, everyone is looking for something slightly different and programming languages can be a real matter of taste.

Does C++ have easy, simple networking API's now? I suppose for 3D it's pretty much just writing native DirectX or OpenGL? No higher level scenegraph API?

Java is quite capable but it has it's quirks that infuriate me. Certainly "performance concerns" are not something I even think about with Java. I'm glad you had a chance to peek at Pernica. Small world but it's been running for a few years now.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 5:57 AM

CITIZEN


I'd actually call a higher-level scenegraph API an engine, but you don't get them built in to C++ no. Theres plenty of really good free ones out now, Ogre3D for instance.

I was brought up as a game developer, so to speak, so performance issues are always at the forefront of my thinking. Even down to swapping C++ for ASM at times...

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 5:09 AM

MITHEL


I've signed up with "Project Firefly". Perhaps I can help out a bit.

Yes, having written games for several decades now I also tend to think about performance too much. Slowly I'm learning that there are now more important things to worry about as our hardware gradually is making performance concerns fade.

Paying attention to high level performance design is far more important than tweaking some tiny aspect for every ounce of performance.

Anyway, I hope we can contribute to keeping Firefly flying by bringing a virtual world online where participants can feel like they are in the Firefly verse and can hang out and enjoy interacting with other Firefly fans.

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 5:10 AM

CITIZEN


Okay, I've tried to save the model as a *.3ds, a *.dxf and a *.dwf file, none of which work. The *.3ds saved the entire model into the same 3D space, so I ended up with recognisable objects, just 'inside' each other. It also couldn't save a few of the objects that comprise the mesh due to too many polygons.
Its a similar story with the other two formats, except I got something pretty close out of the dxf, but with some major flaws in the mesh (tho only down one side as far as I could tell).

I'll keep trying...

EDIT:
Anyway, yea, it would be great to have a 3D world for the fans. Kinda like a FFF.net 3d .

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 6:46 AM

MITHEL


That implies to me you are building it in pieces and using animation translations to move / keep the pieces in place. Very odd. (doesn't make sense)

Certainly building it in pieces is a viable strategy and shouldn't cause any problems (as long as they are normally positioned statically). You are doing this in 3D Studio Max? What about exporting to an earlier Max format (v3.x) so I can take a look at it?

What are you using as sources to model from? Do you have both the "Serenity Magazine" and "Visual Companion book"?

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:06 AM

CITIZEN


Its alot easier to model it in seperate parts, as I'm going for raw poly modeling. Means I can build off of primatives for the most part, and makes texturing and animating moving parts easier later.

For animations where the ship moves I can Group it easy enough.

Theres no options for saving out in older formats, I'll try and find a filter.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:17 AM

CITIZEN


Mithel, this may help:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/darkmoon/bff/

If this is okay I'll post the resulting script for you and you can see if that runs.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:30 AM

MITHEL


Ah, yes that BFF webpage makes it clear that the newer version of Max must allow you to do modeling with methods that aren't supported by the 3DS format (nor earlier versions of MAX). Since the BFF generates a Max script so I don't even need an importer this should work ok. The only concern would be once you've applied textures it looks like I'd have to add in an extra extension to get the texture coordinates.

Let's hook up via e-mail so we don't bore all the rest of the browncoats to death.

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:13 AM

CITIZEN


Heh, np, my e-mail/MSN is <<>REMOVED BECAUSE THERES A LOT OF WEIRDOS OUT THERE!<>>

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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