TALK STORY

Windows Linux or Mac?

POSTED BY: HAZE
UPDATED: Friday, April 7, 2006 20:42
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 12967
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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:18 AM

HAZE


In an offshoot from my resent post about Firefox Vs IE I thought I would as about you favourite OS.

Personally I’m using fully updated windows XP media centre edition 2005. In the 3 weeks I have owned this PC I have gotten at least 20 error messages and been forced to restart three times. That’s the major problem with windows. Even at it best is so damn unstable. Personally I would be using Linux if I wasn’t for its pure gaming support (I likes my RPGs).

So please share your thoughts.


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Who do you suppose is in there?

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:56 AM

DUG


You nailed the issue:

If you want accessibility to the majority of programs you have to use windoze.

If you have specific needs and can get the programs that fit them, Mac or Linux are solid options. But you'll have to forsake access to a lot of other software. For that reason windows is still the best choice for most people.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:58 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Holding my breath for Hurd -- and you wonder why I'm purple

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 9:39 AM

FOURSKYS


Windows for games, Linux for anything serious.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 9:43 AM

NIKNAK


Happily using Linux here. No Windows at all at home.

If you must play commercial games then you can set up a dual boot system and just use Windows for that.

I always thought Serenity should be using the Hurd. They should have done a shot of a computer screen where you can see "GNU Hurd 0.7" or something. All the GNU guys could get excited about seeing it but we could all laugh because it's still not finished in 500 years time.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 10:48 AM

GLITCH


For years, I used a Mac at work, Windows at home. I switched to a Mac at home also and can't figure out what I'm supposed to have lost access to! Some things aren't installed on it, but (a) the reverse is also true, and (b) you can install those things, often free. Except for the fact that windows systems are much more often attacked, b/c they're the most popular, I'd say computers are just computers, and learning how to use a different one just doesn't take a whole lot of extra effort.

GLITCH

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Monday, February 13, 2006 8:51 AM

HAZE


Here’s a question. If I where to go with Linux what version would you recommend?


--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?

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Monday, February 13, 2006 8:55 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION


I have 4 macs plus 5 very large external hard drives FULL of games, applications, and files. So, what am I missing then???

:::iMac G5 17" flat screen:::Hells Yeah!:::

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Monday, February 13, 2006 9:00 AM

DIAVO


WinXP SP2 on a laptop. No issues.

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Monday, February 13, 2006 10:25 AM

OPTI


Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
Here’s a question. If I where to go with Linux what version would you recommend?


I switched from windows to Fedora, and love it.

You might want to intall a few different versions, and see which one you like best.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 5:13 AM

DAVEC5


Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
In an offshoot from my resent post about Firefox Vs IE I thought I would as about you favourite OS.



I switched to Mac a few years back...after years of frustrating Windows glitches.....what was I thinking?? the Mac OS X operating system is flawless (so far).... I totally recommend all things Apple...

And I plan to buy the new PowerBook with the intel core duo processor just as soon as I can, with complete confidence that it will be even better...

take it from a long time pc guy who pretty much makes his living with these things... Switch Now!....(i've come to believe that Windows OS is evil and must have ties to some nefarious government agency not unlike the Alliance in the future), of course, I tend to be a might paranoid about some things.



"...actually, I was fired...from a fry cook opportunity..."

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:25 AM

DATALESS


I think there are more problems then just having to restart windows a few times. If that were all that would be fine. I only have windows now but I really want to switch to a Mac. The real concerns with any windows machine are the need to Defrag, Viruses, Spyware and any number of unknown theats. Viruses might happen on linux but the people using it find a way to beat it pretty quickly but lack of WiFi support was a problem for me. I would love to get a mac because they have had to date only one Viral attack that I know of and that was very recent. You might lose the ability to play the games on mac but you can buy a compy of windows and then play the games on your mac. With all them the macs can do I think it might be worth it. The fact that you can create a pod cast so easily and just send it right to Itunes is amazing and it's just about any musical instrument you could ever want (Garage Band). So of the macs even habe a camera built in and mic for Video podcasting or chatting. Just go to an Apple Store. As for linux you can do the same (buy a copy and have a dual boot up.)

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:29 AM

FOURSKYS


Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
Here’s a question. If I were to go with Linux what version would you recommend?


--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?



I haven't had much experience with many different Linux distributions, but my personal feeling is that they're all pretty much the same, just with a lightly different feel. Red Hat's Fedora is a quick and fairly painless install, and it works just fine. I use Red Hat Enterprise at work (the company pays for the support fees). I'm in the process of installing a Gentoo ditribution on a home machine. It's a (supposedly) better and more customizealbe distribution, should work faster, and you can put in a lot more tweak's, but I wouldn't recommend it as your first forray into Linux. It's a bit more tricky of an install...

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:32 AM

FOURSKYS


Quote:

Originally posted by davec5:

I switched to Mac a few years back...after years of frustrating Windows glitches.....what was I thinking?? the Mac OS X operating system is flawless (so far).... I totally recommend all things Apple...



If it weren't for OS X, I would hate Mac. I was born and bred on Dos and Windows, and now I use Linux more often than I turn on my Windows machine. But Mac's always left a sour taste in my mouth. But now that the new Mac OS is running on a Linux (Free BSD) kernel, it's much much harder to dislike them. I mean, you get a terminal window, and a cool looking graphical interface. It's tough to go wrong. But still... It's a MAC.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:37 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Here’s a question. If I were to go with Linux what version would you recommend?
Once you've met Puppy, you'll never turn your back on someone with a usb flash drive -- ever again

BTW: please don't say that any of the BSD family are derivates of Linux -- this is a happy part of the world but probably isn't flame-proof

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:43 AM

HAZE


I've ordered a copy of Ubuntu Linux as I have heard so many good things about it, and hey the disc is free! I find myself in the position now of being able to swap my Amd 64 3200+ media center pc for a G4 imac. Both have one gig of ram.

What do you think? Good deal?

--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:58 AM

FOURSKYS


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
BTW: please don't say that any of the BSD family are derivates of Linux -- this is a happy part of the world but probably isn't flame-proof



Ok, so if I'm trying to be 100% accurate, which, though I usually try to be, larely fail at doing most times, I should have said that Mac OS is based on Unix (Free BSD). Would that have been more acceptable? :-)

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:59 AM

FOURSKYS


Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
I've ordered a copy of Ubuntu Linux as I have heard so many good things about it, and hey the disc is free! I find myself in the position now of being able to swap my Amd 64 3200+ media center pc for a G4 imac. Both have one gig of ram.

What do you think? Good deal?

--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?



What do you plan on doing with the machine? I mean, I have my own personal bias against Mac, so I would say no. Plus, an AMD 64 is a really good machine. But it depends on what you like...

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:04 AM

HAZE


Oh know it’s a good machine, I wouldn’t touch a Pentium anymore! The primary reason I would got with a Mac is security and stability, but then again I can get them with Linux. I have to think on it. (and I was wrong its actually a G5 imac.)


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Who do you suppose is in there?

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:08 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by FourSkys:
... Unix (Free BSD). Would that have been more acceptable?

You do mean Unix-like?
http://www.unix.org/trademark.html

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:08 AM

DINKY


I think it would be safe for me to say it's either the software that you're using or it's Media Center.

I use Windows XP Home Edition 32 bit. I would rather have Windows XP 64 bit because I have an AMD 64 x2 4400+ for a CPU but Windows 64 just doesn't have the support, I know for a fact that not all of the software I use works in Windows 64, we have 2 out of 33 computers here in this house that run Windows 64.

And I'm going to root off from the word 'Support'. Linux I bet is a good OS... As in I bet it's fun to use, probably stable... But that's a big reason as to why it's stable, there isn't much that runs on it. It's a different OS so everything it runs has to be made for that OS. And it seems that whenever something comes out, it releases for Windows, then it releases for Linux and/or Mac. With most software anyway.

Windows is where all the users are, therefore that's where all the software developers are going to concentrate all of their... Well all of their developing. Whether it be software or patches for software or drivers.

I've been using Windows since Windows 95 and I have never had as many problems as people say they have with it. And you say you're running Media Center Windows and you're getting all kinds of crazy errors? I'm running Windows XP Home 32 and I rarely ever get a system error... In fact I don't even remember the last time I've had one.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:10 AM

FOURSKYS


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by FourSkys:
... Unix (Free BSD). Would that have been more acceptable?

You do mean Unix-like?





Yes, yes. Unix-like, of course that's what I meant.


Oh, and I just have to try this puppy thing now...

Quote:


And I'm going to root off from the word 'Support'. Linux I bet is a good OS... As in I bet it's fun to use, probably stable... But that's a big reason as to why it's stable, there isn't much that runs on it. It's a different OS so everything it runs has to be made for that OS. And it seems that whenever something comes out, it releases for Windows, then it releases for Linux and/or Mac. With most software anyway.



There's a bit of a difference between "support" and "software" though. You'll find that with any Unix-like operating system, there's a lot more support out there than you'll get for Windows. Have you ever tried using Microsoft's tech support? There are tons of pages out there by Linux users who fix and identify problems, not to mention the technical pages on the distribution's site that, since the distribution is smaller, are generally very helpful with working with you to fix the problem. You're not going to get that from Windows.

Also, in the avenue of Software, just because the software isn't available to buy, doesn't mean you can't get something that does the same thing. Now, this doesn't always apply to games, but chances are someone's written something that does the same thing for Unix-like systems, and it probably works a lot better than the thing you have to buy for Windows. Oh, and did I mention that most Unix-like software is free?

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 9:23 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Oh, and I just have to try this puppy thing now...
Good on yer, mate. Be warned -- there's no coming back

Seriously, I don't use it for my work-horse development system or Usenet-sponge (Debian both), but as well as the key-ring flash I use it on an old laptop where it shares a small hard drive with an operating system that I'm sometimes forced to use when visiting alien worlds and from a multisession-dvd on a quiet system without a hard-drive mostly as an X-server but with occasional local dvd-play. It's a young community as yet, but everyone seems to have fun
http://www.puppylinux.org/

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:49 PM

FOURSKYS


This post oficially made using PuppyLinux from a live-CD boot. I still haven't gotten my USB key to work properly, but I'm just glad I got my wireless card working. Took me a couple hours, but I'm liking it...

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:13 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Welcome to the pack! Even the most adorable puppies may have inconvenient habits until house-trained

The major problem I have with using a USB drive is finding a system with BIOS new enough to have a boot option -- using a floppy disk to jump-start takes the glamour away somehow and is no more convenient than a CD -- but that speaks of my impoverished environment rather than Puppy.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:31 PM

RUXTON


HAZE,

This is my first post since installing full Windows XP/Home 32-bit, wiping everything off the computer. This computer has held Linux (Red Hat/Fedora, which I recommend highly on any computer running 500 mhz or faster, and with, say, six gig of hard drive or better), W98SE and now W-XP. [My copy of Red Hat Fedora was also zero cost, but at most you may have to pay $5 for a disk. Compare that to typical eBay prices for XP of $90 or so.]

I had to install XP only four times (at about 1.5 hours a shot) to get it right. Only one installation screwup was my fault, I suspect, which resulted in my having to choose between Windows XP and "on" for an operating system every time I turned the computer on. I have no idea what "on" was, or how it got there, but a final reinstall got rid of it.

I have absolutely no good words for Bill Gates or Microsoft or anything they offer. However, I did get some good feedback from a M/S tech along the way, to my utter amazement.

The problem with W98, as I learned from a United Parcel tech who builds his own computers, is that it has a memory drain. If you run memory-intensive programs fast and furious, the memory loads up and does not refresh itself, and eventually the computer just stops.

I have had this problem with "Guitar PRo," which could never play a full piece without stopping the computer completely. We'll see in the next day or so if XP solves that problem, but I'm told it does.

Yet Photoshop LE will NOT run on XP, and it's a small, simple, old, and useful version (also obsolete) of the mighty and costly Photoshop, that runs on every other system except Linux that I've had here on all my computers.

The problem with Windows seems to be that it wants to do everything for you, and do it all automatically. Linux, on the other hand, is MANUAL. You control it, not the other way around. It does NOTHING automatically. But my computer expertise and time allotment were insufficient to make Linux work with all the stuff I wanted to make work. So it was back to this Microsoft garbage.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 10:17 PM

STDOUBT


Ruxton,
Since you bumped this thread, I thought i'd
pipe up and suggest you try a bootable cd called
Elive. It does a lot of things automatically. And
it can be installed as well as run from cd.
In my experience, many Linux distros do more auto stuff than I like (heh). Sorry for your windows relapse... That's gotta hurt!
http://www.elivecd.org/gb/Download/0.4.2/
This version of Elive is code named 'Serenity'
so I been pimpin' it ;]
EDIT: There's actually a pantload of games for Linux: http://happypenguin.org/

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Friday, March 10, 2006 12:19 PM

RUXTON


Would respectfully ask ANYONE how the dickens do I get XP to run Photoshop LE??? The "compatibility" option of XP does not work. I have LOTS of RAM, 640 Meg, (max possible is 750), but suspect -- SUSPECT -- the 32-bit setup causes the RAM to be managed in a way that forces Photoshop LE to be dumped entirely into it, and hence the computer can't do it.

Anyone have any suggestions? Fixes?

I could reinstall XP (6th time) with only 2 gig of room for its own partition, which doesn't force the 32-bit installation, and also leaves me more of the hard drive open for music, pix, etc.

Or I could buy more RAM, but won't spend another dime until I'm sure it'll get this stuff to work.

ANYONE?? HELP!!

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Friday, March 10, 2006 12:22 PM

RUXTON


STDOUBT,

Do you know if ELIVE runs Photoshop LE?

I just emailed 'em with this question....

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Friday, March 10, 2006 12:38 PM

SNEAKER98


Well, there's a few rules of thumb:

Windows for gaming.
Mac for artistry and media editting.
*nix for servers.

It's a general rule, but it works most of the time.

As for the folks saying they get error after error: you've done something, not windows. Provided you know what to install and what not to, windows is as stable as intended, which means so long as you don't leave it running for months at a time, it'll do just fine.

Also, someone mentioned that they wanted 64-bit windows: don't. Because there's less driver support, and frankly it's pointless at the moment. There's almost no applications that are made specifically for 64-bit, because most folks are still on 32-bit processors. In about 5 years, you'll only be able to find a 64; but not yet. And no, a 64-bit processor doesn't run 32-bit programs faster than a 32-bit processor! ;)

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Friday, March 10, 2006 12:54 PM

CAITLYN


There is no amount of money or cool software in the world that could get me to run the bug laden, bloated, often broken, and horribly insecure mess that is Windows. I run Linux exclusively and have since 1998. I have nothing against Mac OSX (FreeBSD with a very pretty GUI) but I prefer using inexpensive hardware.

Oh, to those who say there isn't sufficient software for Linux, when did you last look at what is really available? You're in for a surprise.

Gamers, OTOH, who insist on specific games, are mostly stuck.



"Yes, sir, Captain Tightpants!"

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Friday, March 10, 2006 1:22 PM

FLETCH2


Mac is now where Linux is going. Unix core, a single stable and pretty windows manager capable of running decent GUI applications. Mac OSX lets you run GUI apps just as nicely as windows does without worrying about X windows and the like and if needed, bang a fully functional Unix command line is right there.

In addition the software tools to make new applications are right there amongst the disks you get, ie like Linux there are free development tools for GUI applications. Gotta love it.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 1:37 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


My workplace uses windoze (). For compatibility I need windoze, so a dual boot system works best.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 1:56 PM

HAZE


Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
Would respectfully ask ANYONE how the dickens do I get XP to run Photoshop LE??? The "compatibility" option of XP does not work. I have LOTS of RAM, 640 Meg, (max possible is 750), but suspect -- SUSPECT -- the 32-bit setup causes the RAM to be managed in a way that forces Photoshop LE to be dumped entirely into it, and hence the computer can't do it.

Anyone have any suggestions? Fixes?

I could reinstall XP (6th time) with only 2 gig of room for its own partition, which doesn't force the 32-bit installation, and also leaves me more of the hard drive open for music, pix, etc.

Or I could buy more RAM, but won't spend another dime until I'm sure it'll get this stuff to work.

ANYONE?? HELP!!



If you cannot get it running on your PC my I recommend The Gimp http://www.gimp.org/ its not quite as good as photoshop but you cant beat it on price.


--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?

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Friday, March 10, 2006 3:03 PM

FLETCH2


Ruxton,
You're stuffed I'm afraid. Unlike 95/98 XP is based on a similar design to NT, Micro$oft knew when they launched it that some apps wouldn't work even in compatability mode. Other than dual booting the only suggestion I can think of is Paintshop Pro or Photoshop Elements.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 7:09 PM

PURPLEBELLY


If you would like to try the Gimp experience, then one way of doing this without distrupting your present installation is to burn a live-CD from Grafpup -- a graphic design oriented puplet from the litter of PuppyLinux derived distros
http://grafpup.com/

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Friday, March 10, 2006 7:35 PM

RUXTON


HAZE and FLETCH2,

Thanks for your kind and informed words. Fletch2, you hit it on the head, i.e., I'm stuffed. I spent two hours today on the phone with a Microsoft tech, and he even took a break to research the problem. Bottom line, Photoshop LE does NOT run on Windows XP. Fletch2, you even hit the solution we (tech and I) came to: Photoshop Elements, which at this minute I'm downloading (373 MB, well over three hours so far on DSL).

BTW, the tech fielded, and effectively skirted, the question of W98SE having the memory drain I mentioned above, which is the main reason I went to XP.

Purplebelly, thanks for the tip. I may have to check back to see what actually DOES run on Linux. But I'll give this op sys (XP) a chance, inasmuch as it's already installed and I know most of the stuff I need works perfectly.

[I just realized GIMP works on XP. May give it a try.]

Thanks again, and happy computing to all.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 9:15 PM

SNEAKER98


Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
There is no amount of money or cool software in the world that could get me to run the bug laden, bloated, often broken, and horribly insecure mess that is Windows. I run Linux exclusively and have since 1998.


I hate to play the devils advocate on ya, but if you've run Linux exclusively since 1998; how do you know what state Windows is in, hmm?

I'm not about to trash an operating system if I don't have experience on it. (For future ref, I've used windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, 2k, XP, as well as OS9, SuSe, Redhat, and am currently dual-booting with Solaris and WinXP)


*Sighs* Way too many folks call it Windoze and don't actually know why.

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:27 AM

CAITLYN


I should have said I run Windows exclusively at home. I still had to support it at work to some extent until two years ago. I still provide technical help to family members who run it. I still have to work with UNIX/Windows and Linux/Windows interoperability issues. So... I do have experience with every version of Windows out there. (Yes, I am an IT professional.)

Windows is horrible on pretty much every level. Stability is better than it once was, especially in Server 2003, but it's still terrible. Memory leakage problems still abound. Virii, trojans, worms, and spyware, oh my! Microsoft's attitude towards security is still cavalier at best.

The new features that Microsoft has been touting for their next release have been available to Linux and Mac users for years. The Apple Aqua (Mac OSX) desktop and KDE in the Linux world are both far superior and far more customizable UIs than what Windows offers.

Need I go on? I can, you know.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:32 AM

CAITLYN


Fletch, your comment was certainly accurate a few years ago. I'm not sure that it is today. Since most major distributions migrated from XFree86 to X.org you don't have to "worry" about X windows. It's just there, the infrastructure behind the UI, but it's not something most people have to configure or interact with directly.

In terms of the desktop, again, Apple's is simply fantastic but I'd say that KDE has come awfully close. KDE or even Gnome are light years ahead of where Microsoft is with XP. A friend of mine who recently installed Ubuntu for the first time commented how similar it is to a Mac interface. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

Certainly anyone who has a recent vintage Mac has an excellent hardware and software platform and really has no reason to look elsewhere. Someone who has a PC can migrate to Linux and get to an excellent working environment without buying new hardware so that choice makes more sense, particularly now that new Macs are Intel based.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:09 AM

SNEAKER98


Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
I should have said I run Windows exclusively at home. I still had to support it at work to some extent until two years ago. I still provide technical help to family members who run it. I still have to work with UNIX/Windows and Linux/Windows interoperability issues. So... I do have experience with every version of Windows out there. (Yes, I am an IT professional.)


What you're saying to me is "I only see the problems that happen with Windows XP".

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Windows is horrible on pretty much every level. Stability is better than it once was, especially in Server 2003, but it's still terrible.


On a server, yes it's terrible considering a server is supposed to stay online for months at a time. But you and I both know Windows isn't particularly meant to be a server; it's PC for Mr. and Mrs. common-Man.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Memory leakage problems still abound.


Memory leaks from software that's written from 3rd party vendors. Hardly MS's fault, and you know it. Those problems occur when people like you and me stop caring about what they're writing (assuming your field of IT is programming, as mine is)

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Virii, trojans, worms, and spyware, oh my!


And why would that be? Would that be because 90% of the world is on a windows box? If I'm a hacker, and I want to do as much damage as possible, I'm clearly going to target the majority; plain and simple.

This issue keeps coming up again and again, but the answer is simple: EVERY plain old windows user sets themselves up as administrator (aka: root). The problem is far more the fault of the user who doesn't particularly know better.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Microsoft's attitude towards security is still cavalier at best.


Not with service pack 2, no. They finally said "to hell with crappy programs", and prevented particularly unsecure ones from running at all. It doesn't solve everything, but it sure fixed a lot.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
The Apple Aqua (Mac OSX) desktop and KDE in the Linux world are both far superior and far more customizable UIs than what Windows offers.


That's a moot point, considering windows has never been about the customization of the UI.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Need I go on? I can, you know.


As could I. Perhaps the debate on software compatibility? The issue of user ease, which is the whole point of home OS's?

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:05 PM

CAITLYN


Quote:

Originally posted by sneaker98:
Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
What you're saying to me is "I only see the problems that happen with Windows XP".



No, I see major problems with every version of Windows released to date.

Quote:

But you and I both know Windows isn't particularly meant to be a server; it's PC for Mr. and Mrs. common-Man.


Neither a Mac no a Linux-based PC with one of the better, full-featured, easy to use distros (i.e.: Mandrive, Ubuntu, Fedora) is harder for Mr. or Mrs. common man. If my mother (a 69 year old retired professor with no technical background) found Linux no harder to use and a solution to problems and grief Windows bugs were causing her then pretty much anyone can make the switch. FWIW, on her Toshiba laptop running XP meant random shutdowns, especially when printing. On Linux that same Toshiba laptop, which claims to be designed for XP, is flawless.

Quote:


Memory leaks from software that's written from 3rd party vendors. Hardly MS's fault



Since when are bugs in Internet Explorer, for example, not Microsoft's fault?

Quote:


And why would that be? Would that be because 90% of the world is on a windows box? If I'm a hacker, and I want to do as much damage as possible, I'm clearly going to target the majority; plain and simple.



Dead wrong. Microsoft is only 42% of the server market and servers are the richest target that do the most damage. Windows security (or lack thereof) is a joke and Windows is an easier target.

Quote:


Not with service pack 2, no. They finally said "to hell with crappy programs", and prevented particularly unsecure ones from running at all. It doesn't solve everything, but it sure fixed a lot.



There are still critical flaws reported and Microsoft takes days to fix them.

Quote:


That's a moot point, considering windows has never been about the customization of the UI.



That is a major deficiency for a desktop OS, IMHO.

Quote:


As could I. Perhaps the debate on software compatibility? The issue of user ease, which is the whole point of home OS's?



None of which would change anything. Most home users who are on Windows are there because they don't know better.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:24 PM

SNEAKER98


Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
No, I see major problems with every version of Windows released to date.


No... you missed my point. If you're supporting Windows, as you say, you're only seeing what goes wrong with windows. You're not seeing the plethora of folks who have no problem at all. Why would you? They're not bugging you to fix anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Neither a Mac no a Linux-based PC with one of the better, full-featured, easy to use distros (i.e.: Mandrive, Ubuntu, Fedora) is harder for Mr. or Mrs. common man. If my mother (a 69 year old retired professor with no technical background) found Linux no harder to use and a solution to problems and grief Windows bugs were causing her then pretty much anyone can make the switch. FWIW, on her Toshiba laptop running XP meant random shutdowns, especially when printing. On Linux that same Toshiba laptop, which claims to be designed for XP, is flawless.


I'll bet she didn't install Linux all by herself (which is pretty much my entire point). That's the kicker, and something Linux needs to catch up on. They're ridiculously annoying to set up, especially if you have unsupported hardware (and, considering the sheer number of hardware out there, that's pretty damn likely).

Ever tried to install a new video card using linux? I had a hell of a time with it, and I'm not exactly new at this.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Since when are bugs in Internet Explorer, for example, not Microsoft's fault?


Since when does IE have a memory leak? It doesn't that I recall, though it is a bit of a memory hog.

If you're referring to "bugs" and not the leak your point was originally about, most of them are caused by third party plugins and modifications. aka: lazy programmers.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Dead wrong. Microsoft is only 42% of the server market and servers are the richest target that do the most damage. Windows security (or lack thereof) is a joke and Windows is an easier target.


I'm not talking about servers; I'm talking about desktops. Did I not make that clear enough? The issue was about spyware, trojans, etc., which is a far greater adversary to a desktop than a server (in most cases, anyway).

A little bedtime reading for you regarding your beloved linux and its "airtight" security: http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/bulletins/SB2005.html
It's what happens when you get an uncoordinated community, often at each others throats, programming a bunch of addons.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
There are still critical flaws reported and Microsoft takes days to fix them.


And flaws are fixed instantly over linux, eh? You're striving for a silly point here.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
That is a major deficiency for a desktop OS, IMHO.


Some folks don't want to fiddle with the UI beyond changing the colours and whatnot. Mr. and Mrs. Everyday-PC-User, perhaps. Quite frankly, I don't have the time for it myself.

Quote:

Originally posted by Caitlyn:
None of which would change anything. Most home users who are on Windows are there because they don't know better.


They're there because that's what's supported, and it's easy. Which is the point in a home OS.


The problem with Mac's is that it's their way or the highway. You get a bundle made exclusively by them, or nothing. This spits in the face of the last 15 years of PC history regarding third parties, in my humble opinion.

The problem with Linux is ease of use. It's fine if you don't change anything and have a certified fellow install it for you; but what if you want to do something beyond browse the net and type in a wordprocessor? And heck, the utter lack of software support makes it a clear loser to those who don't want to have to worry about wether this piece of software is going to work on this distro or not!

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:37 PM

LIMINALOSITY


I love my Mac. I think so daily. Never moreso than when I run into one of these discussion threads where you unfortunate PC owners share your expertise on how to unf^&ck a cranky PC you've just wasted your whole weekend with your head under the engine of, or been on hold for hours with some phone tech, trying to defrag or upgrade with crappy buggy third-rate software. (Sorry, I get all growly about the Microsoft evil empire. Bill's ethic pisses me off. I don't do business with companies whose ethics piss me off.)
I turn it on, it works. It never freezes, crashes, has temper tantrums, no magic smoke, no incompatable soft. I don't get virally infected, ever. Can you imagine? Not ever. No uninvited email either. I don't ever need to spend one minute figuring out what's wrong with my 'puter. I want new soft, more RAM, I click it in, I'm guided by voices, well, ok, little text boxes, thru the installation process. No problems ever. Photoshop? Painting programs? vector drawing, design, iMovie, Garage Band, iDVD on and on, it will let me do anything, everything, without messing around figuring out how to get from A-B. It's a dream to run. OSX Tiger and Photoshop CS2 are completely, beautifully searchable by keyword, so if I forget where I left my carkeys for crying out loud, I can find them with my Mac. I figure the time I save not needing to mess with my Mac has more than paid the difference between my machine and any souped up PC you care to flaunt.

I love my Mac.

Oh, yeah, free downloadable soft upgrades, limo service and breakfast in bed. More time to enjoy life. Are you converted yet?

Aztecs used the term firefly metaphorically, meaning a spark of knowledge in a world of ignorance or darkness.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:52 AM

SNEAKER98


Well, I hate to tell you this Liminalosity, but a Mac is just another version of a PC. It's susceptible to everything a Windows PC is. The difference is, right now, nobody who can do any damage cares about the OSX. Maybe if it becomes a larger market, but that's still not looking too likely.

Quote:

Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
trying to defrag


Windows has a handly little defrag program that's just one or two clicks. Norton has an even better one. If you're saying that Mac's aren't ever going to fragment their harddrive, guess again!

Quote:

Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
or upgrade with crappy buggy third-rate software


And that crappy,third rate software will hit the Apple, provided it ever becomes a larger market share. You can't blame Microsoft because some lazy programmers in some other company gave Windows a bad name.

Quote:

Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
(Sorry, I get all growly about the Microsoft evil empire. Bill's ethic pisses me off. I don't do business with companies whose ethics piss me off.)


That evil empire also saved Apple from bankruptcy.

Quote:

Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
no incompatable soft


Because you haven't run across something that wont work on the Mac. I'm guessing you don't play many games?

Quote:

Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
I figure the time I save not needing to mess with my Mac has more than paid the difference between my machine and any souped up PC you care to flaunt.


Lets just say that the easy time I've had with my windows box has been equivalent to your experience on a Mac. I don't remember the last time I've had a BSOD, nor any kind of outright crash. With SP2, Norton AntiVirus, and me not being an idiot on the internet, I haven't had any spyware or a virus in ages. My PC is custom to exactly what I wanted in a gaming machine, something you can't do on an Apple.

From what I hear about the OSX, it's the silky smooth OS for those who don't want to mess with anything ever. Nor want to play any games. That's fine, but that's really not for me. I don't want someone to give me an oddly shaped white box and tell me what the heck is in there; I want to put what I want in my desktop computer.

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:43 PM

RETROVERTIGO


Been a Linux geek for years, but I've been using Windows on my Dell Inspiron laptop because Linux doesn't play that nice with laptops, it's more of a server OS.

This laptop has been slowly withering away, however. USB controller dies randomly, the touch-screen doesn't work (forcing me to use a USB mouse, not too convenient when the USB controller randomly craps out as mentioned above). About a third of the CDs I burn get ruined, etc.

By the end of this week I will be the proud owner of a MacBook Pro, customized with an extra gig of RAM. And it will be good...

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Monday, March 13, 2006 6:59 AM

LIMINALOSITY


Hey Sneaker... I do know a Mac isn't immune to fragmentation, they just don't much. Maybe some day some hacker will write poison for Macs, probably not unless they get a much bigger market share.
Yeah, I'm not much of a gamer, it's true. I've played some, but I'd much rather aim a pebble, pool cue, bow and arrow or a real gun at a target than play any pixelated game I've ever seen. I'm a painter/photog and I am amazed at the ease with which the art programs run on my Mac. Photoshop is as deep and wide as the ocean. You can sail on it, fish in it, dive in it, swim in it, and never get bored, because there's always something new to do. That's what I want my 'puter to do best - be slick and supportive of my work, and find me the one I named 'Paperdoll Karen' when I can't remember where I put it, allow mw to write, read on the net, make DVDs, give me searchable email, and all of this without needing to be a programmer. Glad you like yours for what you do as much as I like mine for what I do. I hear lots from folks who wish they didn't need to know so much about how to mess with a PC in order to just use it.

Aztecs used the term firefly metaphorically, meaning a spark of knowledge in a world of ignorance or darkness.

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Monday, March 13, 2006 10:00 AM

STDOUBT


It's all very complicated...*

Windows: Children
Linux: Men
Mac: Women
-or-
Windows: Homo Habilis
Linux: Homo Sapien
Mac: Homo Sexual
-or-
Windows: Ford Taurus
Linux: Delorian (yes, the one from Back to the Future)
Mac: VW Jetta
-or-
Windows: Mrs. Howell
Linux: MaryAnn
Mac: Ginger
-or-
Windows: Budweiser
Linux: Microbrew
Mac: Corona
-or-
Windows: Christianity
Linux: Cryptozoology
Mac: Judao-Buddhism
-or-
Windows: Miranda
Linux: Persephone
Mac: Osiris
-or-
Windows: MTV
Linux: BBC
Mac: NPR
-or-
Windows: Bile
Linux: Juice of Safu
Mac: Water of Life
-or-
Windows: Kenny G.
Linux: They Might be Giants
Mac: Stevie Winwood
-or-
Windows: Steel Magnolias
Linux: The Matrix
Mac: Terms of Endearment
-or-
Windows: Chihuahua
Linux: Wolf
Mac: Poodle
-or-
Windows: Folgers' instant
Linux: Fair Trade/Shade Grown/Organic
Mac: Starbucks

*The BSDs aren't mentioned as they exist in a rarified stratum way above this brand of silliness ;]

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Monday, March 13, 2006 4:29 PM

DERANGEDMILK


That was....entertaining to say the least.

I loves me my Mac!!! Never'd do windows.

While I hear people who have Macs talking about how they love them all the time, and people who use windows saying they hate macs all the time, I was just curious if any of you have ever heard a windows user talk about how they had switched over from mac and absolutely love it?
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, March 13, 2006 10:12 PM

RUXTON


HAZE,

Am currently working with GIMP, after an entire day lost with Adobe buttheads. One so-called tech who turned out to be a salesman gave me wrong info on a trial version of Photoshop Elements (nearly 4 hours of download on DSL), which caused me to reinstall it, which voided the trial. I could therefore not even try it after all that time. When I asked another Adobe salesperson about it, I was told it's Adobe policy to NOT LET USERS KNOW that if they install, then uninstall and reinstall trial softwear it WON'T WORK. That attitude SUCKS. Earlier that day I did get one Adobe saleswoman who really knew her stuff, but after two hours we still could not make it work...unless I bought it.

So I went for the GIMP. It appears to be a very powerful program, and will do everything I need it to do. So thanks, Haze, for the tip.


STDOUBT, Very clever trilogies.

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