Cultural differences by merlindrea

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Cultural differences

POSTED BY: MERLINDREA
UPDATED: Monday, April 14, 2003 13:01
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Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:46 PM

In the Iraq thread a lot of discussion is going back and forth if it was right to attack Iraq. Reading (and writing) in this thread, I had to think about what are the basics for the different opinions, here in the US and at the other side France and Germany. I think, one reason why people just don't understand the other's way of thinking might be the often underestimated cultural differences. (I will generalize quite a bit, so bear with me, okay?)

If you ask an American to draw two circles, representing the future and the past, he will draw a big circle for the future and a much smaller one, quite detached, for the past. That picture reflects quite well how open America is for change, how hopeful, how the future is always bright. And thats a good thing! For instance at work, if I have an idea, my boss just tells me: sure, try it out, if you like.

But because the future is felt as detached from the past, and because the future is always better then the now, sometimes this creates what I call a "Cowboy" style - shoot first, ask questions later. Acting is seen as more important, more pressing than planning. As an example: a friend of mine here had to choose between two jobs and she had difficulties choosing. I told her to sit down half an hour and write down whats important for her in a job, to help her find the right one. Her answer was:"I don't have time for this." - half an hour for a decision which might affect your next years...

If you ask a German to draw those circles, the history circle will be the same size or a little bit bigger than the future circle and they touch each other. You know, as a German you always always always are aware of your past - and of the guilt. As a German, you are not proud being German. You would not have a flag in your garden (or if you had one, thats a sure sign you are a neo-nazi). (A lot of Germans actually envy Americans for their nationalistic pride)
The knowledge, that Germany shall not ever again start a war is engraved in our genes, so to speak. We have a deep mistrust for anything related to military.
So in Germany you are not as open to new things, new ideas. You first need to prove your worth, for instance, before your boss starts letting you try your ideas. We generally do a longer planning and we like to understand the whole thing before we decide. That is sometimes VERY tiresome, I tell ya!

However, I find these things fascinating. I learn more of those little things every day. Do you have any experiences with different cultures? I am especially interested in Asia - I am working with Japan and it is really complicated!

Merl *rambling*

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 3:16 PM

KAYTHRYN

Merl are you German? Well you don't have to answer, its really not that relevant. The reason I ask is because I doesn’t sound like you have a good grasp of what the American public is like. Maybe you are judging from what you see on TV, or a few loud voices you've heard, because we're not all like that- I don’t think you can make any of those generalizations at all.

I see Americans looking to the past and seeing that for 12 years Iraq hasn't complied with the UN. I see Americans looking at the present and seeing today that Iraq does have long rang weapons contrary to what they've said. And I see Americans looking to the future and see ourselves help the Iraqis rebuild. Americans may not see as much history as other countries because we are a young country, we don’t have much history under our belt that is purely American. What we do have is a little history from every other country. We are like a mutt dog-- understand I mean that in a good way. The mutt inherits the best qualities from each breed. We are made up of people from all around the world, the best of everything and each generation just keeps on inheriting the finest qualities from our ancestors before us. Okay, I’m getting a little grandiose, I’ll tone it down.

I admittedly don’t know much about the behavior and attitude of German citizens, but I do know that I could never be able to make such a statement about them. I’m sure there are Germans who look only to the future, those who look mainly to the past, those who look equally to the future and the past, and then the majority probably fills in the gaps between those three.

I can’t speak for other countries, but that is just my take on the people I live with.

-------------------------------------
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 5:26 PM

MERLINDREA

Hi Kaythryn,

Thanks a lot for your thoughts. You are of course correct, generalizing is dangerous. However, it is sometimes helpful to understand where the other person is coming from. One should not take it as "I can predict how that person will react because all Americans (or Germans or Japanese) are the same". But in some cases it may be LIKELY that this person will react in a certain way.

For instance do Americans smile more often and are friendly to strangers, a thing not that common in Germany. Now, if you do not know that this is not common, an American in Germany might feel rebuked, might take it personally. I just read a very interesting interview with an American lady living some months in Germany and she felt very unhappy because nobody greeted or smiled at her in the Elevator. But this is just something you don't do there. (Actually, the Germans were likely to think this lady a bit weird :-))

So what I am trying to say is that even though everybody is an individual, there are certain cultural guidelines, and it is helpful to know them to understand your counterpart.

I am in no way saying that one way is better or worse than the other. I like America! I like the openness and freedom of choice it allows me. And because I am the "alien" :-), I have to adapt, not the other way around. In this effort, it helps me a great deal to understand the background. Does this makes sense?

Merl
PS: Yes, I'm German. I lived one year in Belgium and now since almost 2 years in Colorado. The funny thing is, that in my opinion Germans are closer to Americans than to Belgians...

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 6:09 PM

KAYTHRYN

Merl,
I see what you mean. I would probably think something was wrong with me if I went a day with no strangers smiling at me. I apologize, I understand your earlier post now. Cultural norms. The problem is, even in one country people can be so culturally diverse, especially in the US because like I said before, we‘re a mutt. In the east where I’m from people may nod in acknowledgement to strangers, but when I lived in New Mexico, down south, people were so much more openly friendly. The first day I was there I though every guy I saw was flirting with me because they all smiled and started talking to me. After a short while I realized that was just how they grew up, and were taught was the polite way to act. (Well lets hope a few of them were really flirting

)

-------------------------------------
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein

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Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:46 AM

LOSTANGEL

Sorry to revive this thread, but I understand.

I live in North Jersey, and have relatives in San Diego. People don't even nod to strangers over here, they give the perfunctory eye contact, and then "politely" ignore each other. I think that's because it's so crowded over here. Not just the city size, but the mountains close us in, and the forests are thick, the City (NYC) is referred to as a concrete canyon. We don't have space, so we have "internal" space, and if someone starts talking to a stranger in an elevator, the chatter is considered rude.

When I go to California, on the other hand, things are much different, and I have to stay at my sister's house for a couple days to absorb the atmosphere, or I come off as unbearably rude.

I work with the Chinese a lot, and they are very industrious. They work into the late hours of the evening, and expect everyone to do the same thing. They also expect to get as much as possible for as little as possible, and this mind set has helped me tremendously. This is just a cultural thing. In America, Big Business throws it's money around like water, always confident that there will be more to come. Here I pay for a lot of things out of my own pocket and then get reimbursed, rather than get a corporate account or get the money before I purchase something. At first I resented this approach to business, but they have never withheld my reimbursement checks, so it's not like I'm paying for office supplies.

They are very frugal and very hardworking. They pretty much devote their life to the company, with the exception of the younger people who work here, who are interestingly enough, devoted to their church. These are not people of chinese decent, they are all bilingual in one dialect of Chinese or another. There are 2 Koreans, and 2 1/2 white people. I joke and say that because I'm 1/2 phillipino, so I'm 1/2 pacific islander.

My peeps are much more laid back and social. This has gotten me in trouble a lot because if something that takes 2 days to do is due next month, I won't start it until a week or two before it's due. They would prefer that I get it done and then just wait. I would prefer to pace myself. But that's me.

Does this help anyone's questions? Did I even answer the right ones?

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

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Monday, April 14, 2003 5:34 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by merlindrea:
For instance do Americans smile more often and are friendly to strangers, a thing not that common in Germany.

i'd have to say that in Minneapolis it's not unusual at all to smile at someone in the elevator, or go a step further by carrying on a conversation with a complete stranger on the sidewalk at the drop of a hat. what else do you do when you're waiting for your bus, or while you're waiting in line at the DMV?

what you said about adapting as the "alien" makes complete sense. my closest friend is ethnic Armenian from Beirut Lebanon. she's had to make several adjustments to American life and to raising her son as an American teenager (a breed of human in and of itself). however, i also had to make an adjustment when i went with her to Oklahoma to visit her family. i sat in her brother's living room where three different conversations were going on--one in Armenian, one in Arabic and one in French (the whole family speaks five languages, including turkish and English). so her brother's girlfriend (who is German!), who also didn't understand a word of what was being said, turns to me and deadpans, "So, how about those Twins?"

i've never been that on the outside looking in before and i found it extremely insightful. we'd known each other for about 8 years by then, and yet that was probably the first time i truly understood how different her background is from mine. yet we have the same interests, the same feelings, and the same sense of humor. and if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have discovered the exquisite experience that is Armenian Tabouli. i've also since learned to listen for my name, just in case.

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

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Monday, April 14, 2003 11:46 AM

LOSTANGEL

I'm half phillipino, but I've been raised as plain ole white bread american, with no touch of the ethnicity that I want so much to see. My Mother's side of the family is in San Diego, but we all moved to New Jersey to be with my step dad's family.

My best friend is Jamaican, and even though we're good friends, I never realized our differences until the first time I spent the afternoon at her house. Her family treats me like a member of their family, and it's so nice and friendly, but different than the staid WASPy background that I came from. I like it, and I love going over there.

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

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Monday, April 14, 2003 12:04 PM

MARKUZR

Hi All

I'm in Scotland, and I feel that I live in one of the most tolerant places on earth - in my opinion of course! We have a long standing "thing" in Scotland because of two football teams - one team's followers hates the other teams's followers but in reality that's pretty much the only downside.

I have friends of all ethnic origins and yet we don't call them "blacks" or "asians" - they're all "scots". My good friend Pat is a West Indian who moved to London as a child and eventually moved up here 10 years ago. In London he was treated as a second class citizen in a lot of places (not everywhere, or by everyone, but the usual bad apples) but in all his time in Scotland he's never been treated as anything but an equal.

In Scotland, if you take a seat by the side of the road and someone sits next to you, you're guaranteed to know the name of their children, cats, first love and what they're having to eat that night by the time you move on. We have a friendly, open, accepting society which seems more tolerant than most. If you fall, they'll pick you up. If you lose your wallet, they'll give you their last £5 to get you home safely in a taxi.

I'm not patriotic by any means, I live each day as it comes and I'd LOVE to move to another country to enjoy better weather (although all countries seem to have their extremes too!) but I do feel fortunate to have been given the chance to live and grow in such a tolerant society.

Ultimately, tolerance is what the world needs - once we have that we'll understand everyone else a little better and hopefully put aside our differences to live as a single society. I don't think it will ever happen though, politically it's just not possible.

That's just my two cents :)

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