"Damage" (1/28) w/spoilers and complaints by SpikeSpiegel

ANGELUS ARCANUM

"Damage" (1/28) w/spoilers and complaints

POSTED BY: SPIKESPIEGEL
UPDATED: Thursday, January 29, 2004 17:26
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VIEWED: 2828
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Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:08 AM

Is "Angel" getting violent just for the pointless fun of it? While I loved "Firefly" for the way sudden moments of cold violence (death by jet engine, stabbing fallen enemies for laughs) had real shock (and humor) value, it seems like "Angel" is just trying to get creepier for no good reason.

Last night's ep, what was done to Spike was just ... more than I needed to see. Yes, vamps are expected to heal better'n average, but still. All that mostly for a case of mistaken identity? Since the bit about memories of slain slayers was subordinate to the Psycho Slayer's childhood trauma, it was mostly Spike got mutilated for no good reason.

Yes, I caught his line about having deserved it for a thousand OTHER crimes. But still. Ugly.

And then there's the Psycho Slayer. I didn't recall Buffy ending with the idea that all potential slayers became full, permanent slayers. I thought it was a feel-good moment that saved the world, not a permanent change that left hundreds of full slayers on the loose.

This sorta ruins the slayer myth. First it was, one born into each generation, then it was, one born the moment another falls (Buffy, Kendra and Faith are of the same generation, after all), then it was, potentials everywhere, some being trained before being called, and now it's hundreds or thousands of supergirls with bad dreams?

Not unlike the Superman comics, where an original character not much tougher than a Buffy demon kept having to top himself to impress readers, until we got stupid stories where he pushed whole planets out of orbit (sans consequences of physics).

I've got another point about slayer myth, specifically, a missing slayer, but I'll go post that under Buffyverse stuff. In general, I liked Tom Lenk's guest appearance, though I'm appalled Giles would actually train that doof. I dislike that the Buffy Gang has rejected Angel without talking to him, when they didn't even really know much about Wolfram & Hart. Should've had more faith in him.

Lookit me ramble ...

"Bang."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:27 AM

SOUTHERNMERC

Actually, at the end of Buffy they DID mention that this would be a permanent thing. Buffy discussed it with the other "potentials" and let them know what was going to happen. Willow let the power loose and the slayers "woke up."

As to not liking it and how it impacts the Buffyverse, I can understand. It is a major change, but then again the theme of Buffy was always "growing up." Change is to be expected, but it does have a way of souring peoples opinions about a favorite thing (BtVS in this case).

I'm kinda curious about the Scooby turn-off of Angel myself. Where they got their info is unknown to me, but ultimately it was probably done to facilitate the story. "Angel" is about Angel and not Buffy and crew, so all they could do without bringing on ALOT of new faces (to folks who have only seen Angel mind you) and a lot of backstory is give a summary of their lives. Viewers knew about Buffy, knew she was potent and her Scoobies were standing the line between this world and armageddon lots of times, but didn't really have alot of knowledge unless they had watched Buffy in the first place. To give a long description would have doubled the lenght of the show!

Why would Giles trust Andrew? If you can answer that let me know. Desperate for help? (That's FREAKIN' desperate IMO.)

Haven't seen the first 2 seasons of Angel, but it DOES seem to be getting darker and more violent. It could be because of their new situation, really have to watch to get a better idea I guess.

Now I'M rambling...someone stop us!

Jayne: "How big a room?"

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:30 AM

KURUKAMI

Actually, I thought Andrew basically explained precisely what happened. In Buffy's final ep, Willow worked some major mojo through the Scythe that allowed each potential to instantly gain the power of a Slayer. The specific line was "Every girl who could have the power, will have the power. Who can stand up, will stand up."

I've remembered thinking since that, though that maneuver granted them a huge advantage for closing the Hellmouth and stopping the First's plan, in the long run that many super-powered young women could pose a substantial problem. It was most certainly a permanent solution that changed every potential, not just a feel-good moment.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:32 AM

KURUKAMI

Quote:
Why would Giles trust Andrew? If you can answer that let me know. Desperate for help? (That's FREAKIN' desperate IMO.)

That wasn't what I thought. Look at it this way -- Giles doesn't really trust Wolfram & Hart, even if Angel is at the helm now. If you're going to send someone to be your representative at W&H, specifically if all they need to really do is provide information, then are you going to send someone valuable and extremely competent in? Or are you more likely to send forward a pawn to probe Wolfram & Hart, someone who's less competent overall but is eminently expendable?

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:41 AM

OKKAY

I actually liked that they mentioned Buffy not trusting Angel now that they're with W&H. Because that's exactly the feeling that I've been having this season, that something just isn't right about them running W&H. I'm glad that they're bringing up this point, rather than going through the season just pretending everything's okay about them trying to run one small branch of an interdimensional evil corporation.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:44 AM

SUCCATASH

I thought it was a GREAT episode.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:55 AM

SPIKESPIEGEL

Interesting comments. I'm gonna have to accept that the running theme in my posts today is stuff I didn't pay close enough attention to the first time. If the Buffy finale made clear that all the awakened slayers would be permanently awakened, not just temporarily lending, I dunno, psychic mojo to the Hellmouth battle, so be it. Not a smart move, storywise, but hell, the show was over anyway.

As to the mention of needing to avoid too much explanation on "Angel," is it just me or does every ep of "Angel" now use an unbearable amount of exposition to get people up to speed? Baggage mounts as a show wears on, yes, but is "Angel" TOO laden? After all, it's inevitable that a certain percentage of regular viewers give up on a show, and it must replace them with new viewers. Tough to do if you need to subject them to ten minutes of complex blather to catch them up each week, and you're still more likely to bore or confuse.

But, hey, Cordy next week! Yay!

"Bang."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:57 AM

BOOMERGOODHEART

I, too, thought it was a great episode, especially that last exchange between Spike & Angel. I think it showed a lot of character depth. I also felt that it showed how Spike--the one person/being that Angel can't stand--was the only one whom he could truly commiserate with. Nice twist.

Question: When Andrew was telling Spike where everyone was in the world, why didn't he mention Faith?

BoomerGoodheart
"I love my Captain."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:06 AM

KURUKAMI

Or Wood, for that matter. Maybe the two of them headed out together somewhere...? That was kind of the implication given their sort-of-there relationship at the end of Buffy.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:38 AM

STILLSHINY

I was all over this episode. To me it was and always is about the characters. I love the deeper & deeper issues of who Spike & Angel really are. Yes, it does require a knowledge of past shows so for us newbies it requires research, either DVD's, ripped vids, transcripts or summaries. It's all about great story-telling.

“Firefly is the source of probably more joy & pain than anything I’ve done.” - Joss

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:50 AM

BOOMERGOODHEART

When Spike said that both he & Angel were innocent victims once was an "Ah-hah!" moment for both hubby and myself. What a great episode...

BoomerGoodheart
"I love my Captain."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:50 AM

SPIKESPIEGEL

Sigh. Mild spoiler in that I badly paraphrasse the teaser for next week's 100th episode.

Quote:
Originally posted by Stillshiny:
I was all over this episode. ... It's all about great story-telling.

Mm, but lengthy soliloquies in which, say, Wesley has to say, say, "Yes but we all know that Cordelia slipped into a coma after being forced to give birth to a goddess-demon named after a flower, who tried to hypnotize the world, after Cordy apparently ascended to be a power that is, which is what we call the distant godlike forces of justice in the world."

I mean, Andrew going over what a slayer is at that meeting was embarrassing. It ended with Angel saying, "Yes, we all know that." He should've then looked straight into the camera and said, "But maybe some of you didn't."

And I notice that the show started without a "Previously on Angel" montage. Perhaps a one-minute intro at the start of the show would obviate the need for a lot of that exposition. Could've covered the W&H takeover, what a slayer is, Spike's new hero role, the whole shebang. And the lost exposition would've left time to actually deal with the barely-mentioned Eve subplot and Spike's utterly absent "new friend" "Doyle."

Next week's exposition should at least be entertaining, since the next-week clip showed Cordy saying stuff like, "And let me get this straight, Spike's a good guy now?" and such.

"Bang."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 3:56 PM

KALATHENA

I didn't have screaming hissy fits for the lack of Christian Kane. I'm rather surprised.

Oh, to the person who didn't see the first two seasons: Get them. Watch them. You need to know Lindsey's motivation. (He's the guy who called himself "Doyle" and got Spike on his "righteous" path) He's an awesome character and had a fabulous stint in S2.

As for the episode, the psycho Slayer was just a wee bit predictable, though it did make for a good episode. I knew it was going to be a just turned Slayer when I heard the first thump on the metal door. Once we got past the psych hospital with ZERO security and a staff who haven't read the new HEPA rules (about a year ago there was a *huge* patients bill of rights passed that has an enormous impact on the amount of confidentiality that is expected...) I actually loved it.

Nothing about Spike's hands being cut off didn't make sense. It made *perfect* sense to me. Dana was reliving her nightmare and exacting revenge on the person who hurt her, or on the person who she thought had hurt her. Nothing superfluous about that. I actually have a very low tolerance for gratuitous violence and that wasn't gratuitous. Yes, it was disturbing. It was *supposed* to be. Hence why it was so good.

I LOVE that Buffy & Slayers don't trust Angel! I sure as hell wouldn't.

Why would Giles trust Andrew? Desperation is a part of it. Have we so quickly forgotten that the entire Watchers Council was killed? You have to start somewhere and since Andrew did help in the big battle. It's also because if Buffy now trusts him, Giles will.

Grrrrr!!!! I's SO PISSED!!! I didn't get out of the room before my husband started watching the trailers for next week! I HATE knowing too much! Only saw the eyes open, but that's WAY too much information for me.

A rethink of my Lindsey theory: Perhaps what Eve meant by him "fixing the race" does not mean diverting the senior partners' attentions on Spike. Perhaps it means he wants to make sure that instead of the "vampire with a soul" fighting on one side or the other, that EACH side has one....Hmmmmm...

--Kala

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 5:26 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Just a question

Do you think Cordy might remember Connor ?

The possibility rather excites me, would make for a great story

" Thats not fair !!!!
I didn't even have a soul when I did that!"

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