Doyle. & Angel .*Spoilers* (just in case you haven't seen season 1 yet ) by LittleAlbatross29

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Doyle. & Angel .*Spoilers* (just in case you haven't seen season 1 yet )

POSTED BY: LITTLEALBATROSS29
UPDATED: Monday, March 19, 2007 17:39
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VIEWED: 4682
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Thursday, February 1, 2007 2:35 AM

I recently bought Angel & started watching season 1 ,which I haven't seen since it aired.What a difference fdrom the teenage angst of Buffy.

This show was cancelled , why exactly ? Oh yeah , I should be used to it by now.

But I digress.

WHY oh why did they kill Doyle ??? He was very funny, demonic, and adorable.I just can't wrap my brain around why they would kill him to have him be replaced by Wesley the bumbling idiot whom I never liked.I really think he could have brough much more to the story than Wes ever did.

Were there problems with the actor ? Or maybe Boreanaz didn't want to share the brooding spotlight ? I ask again , why kill Doyle ???

Any thoughts on this one , Browncoats ?

Bryce
************

Throw your dreams into space like a kite, and you do not know what it will bring back; a new life, a new friend, a new love, a new country. -Anais Nin

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 4:42 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

I don't know if there were problems with glenn quinn but a couple of years later he died of a herion overdose so I don't know if he was struggling with that while he was on angel.

at the time I recall joss saying he did it to shake people up, stop them getting complacent in the new world of angel. I guess being a spin-off you have to fight harder for respect and killing a loveable character is the best way joss knows how

and remember this was before we expected it of him, jenny calendar had been killed but she wasn't as much of a main character, so it was a real shocker, not like now where you just know the coolest, sweetest person's gonna get it.

joss also said at the time that wesley wasn't replacing doyle, cordelia was replacing doyle and wesley was just coming in as himself. I love wes anyway though so I'm biased. doyle was a great character but we didn't get enough time to know him properly

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 5:00 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

I knew that it was Joss probably stirring things up , but I still can't get used to it.I really liked Doyle & wish we could have gotten to know him better.
Wes just never did it for me.Especially knowing what happens later on !

And that is just such a shame about Glenn's death.

Bryce
**********

Throw your dreams into space like a kite, and you do not know what it will bring back; a new life, a new friend, a new love, a new country. -Anais Nin

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 8:28 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
Or maybe Boreanaz didn't want to share the brooding spotlight ?

Boreanaz and Quinn were actually very good friends, and hung out together alot off-screen while Glenn was on Angel. From what I've heard, that was one of the reasons he was let go. His problems with drugs were apparently pretty obvious to the rest of the cast & crew (and I guess caused some difficulties with shooting, at times), and the producers worried that he might drag the star of their show down into the same sort of situation...

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Wednesday, February 7, 2007 4:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Doyle was great. I hate it that Glenn lost control of his life, and I don't know if he had been more stable, it would have saved his spot on Angel He really played well w/ Charisma, imo. Talk about longing for that which he'd never attain.....I really liked how Doyle did the mock t.v. ad, and Angel finding the demo tape in S5. Nice touch, there.

If there's a criticism I have about Joss, it's that there's too many deaths of great characters. If he wants to write someone out of a show, he could have them just leave. It's always w/ the killing though.... I find it a bit much sometimes.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 7, 2007 4:39 PM

WRATCHIT

Angel and Oz both just left at one point. Well I guess Angel was killed previously but the second time.....oh you get the point.

__________________________________________________
Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?
www.bikerplanet.net

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Wednesday, February 7, 2007 11:14 PM

AMYEL

The thing is, Joss's verses are full of demons, lawyers, and cannibalistic space pirates. It's dangerous. If you and your friends were constantly being chased by things that want to kill you...someone's gonna get killed. It's all realistic to the world(s). If you don't want anyone to die at all, then the danger aspect couldn't be there and they would be completely different shows.

When it comes to the good guys, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to leave. "Everyone I love nearly gets their face eaten every day by beasties... see ya!" They stay because they are good and want to help their friends.

Well, except Oz. He left, and is apparently still alive and occasionally fuzzy somewhere out there.

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Thursday, February 8, 2007 12:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by wratchit:
Angel and Oz both just left at one point. Well I guess Angel was killed previously but the second time.....oh you get the point.

__________________________________________________
Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?
www.bikerplanet.net

I was referring more to Joss's handling in all his works, not just one show. Oz left because Seth Green went on to bigger and better things. Angel left to star in...Angel. So did he really leave ? Naww. Thankfully, he kept Amy Acker around as Ilyria in Angel, after Fred died. But she wasn't Fred.

Just thinking of who died ( and stayed dead )in Joss's shows here...
Tara, Jenny Calander, Joyce Summers , Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Darla, Merle, Warren and Jonathan, Book, Wash, Lilah, Lindsey, .... y'all know the list. It seems to go on and on.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:04 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
From what I've heard, that was one of the reasons he was let go. His problems with drugs were apparently pretty obvious to the rest of the cast & crew (and I guess caused some difficulties with shooting, at times), and the producers worried that he might drag the star of their show down into the same sort of situation...

Where did you hear that from?

Joss has said many times that Doyle was intended to be killed off early, something he'd wanted to do since the start of Buffy (where he'd wanted to include Jesse in the opening credits of the pilot). And as cynical as I can be at times, I'm willing to believe him.

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Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:06 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just thinking of who died ( and stayed dead )in Joss's shows here...
Tara, Jenny Calander, Joyce Summers , Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Darla, Merle, Warren and Jonathan, Book, Wash, Lilah, Lindsey, .... y'all know the list. It seems to go on and on.

If the original poster of this thread didn't know Doyle died, why would you post a spoilery list of the casualties from all the shows??

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Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just thinking of who died ( and stayed dead )in Joss's shows here...
Tara, Jenny Calander, Joyce Summers , Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Darla, Merle, Warren and Jonathan, Book, Wash, Lilah, Lindsey, .... y'all know the list. It seems to go on and on.

If the original poster of this thread didn't know Doyle died, why would you post a spoilery list of the casualties from all the shows??

Because I thought it said 'spoilers' in the subject line, and understood it as a warming for those who had NOT seen S1 yet ? The original poster DID know that Doyle had died.

I recently bought Angel & started watching season 1 ,which I haven't seen since it aired .What a difference from the teenage angst of Buffy.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:56 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Where did you hear that from?

Joss has said many times that Doyle was intended to be killed off early, something he'd wanted to do since the start of Buffy (where he'd wanted to include Jesse in the opening credits of the pilot). And as cynical as I can be at times, I'm willing to believe him.

Unfortunately, I don't remember any specific sources off the top of my head, so unless someone else can provide some links, I guess you'll just have to treat it as "unconfirmed internet gossip".

Based on everything I've read over the years, tho, I strongly believe that Joss has said what he's said in order to take the high road, and not drag Glenn's name thru the mud (especially after his death). "Oh, yeah, I always intended to kill him off" is a much classier way of handling it than "We had to fire him because he was an unreliable junkie who couldn't make his call times." I'm sure that I've read somewhere a comment from David Fury where, without mentioning Glenn's name specifically, he pretty much came right out and said that that was the case.

To me, the most damning evidence of all is that after they killed him off, they never once brought him back to appear in an episode, even tho he lived another three years, and continued acting after "Angel". You've heard the joke about how once characters are killed in the Buffyverse, they seem to show up on screen even more than when they were alive. And yet as important a character as Doyle was, and as popular as he was, they never brought him back. There's gotta be a reason for that...

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Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:07 PM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just thinking of who died ( and stayed dead )in Joss's shows here...
Tara, Jenny Calander, Joyce Summers , Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Darla, Merle, Warren and Jonathan, Book, Wash, Lilah, Lindsey, .... y'all know the list. It seems to go on and on.

If the original poster of this thread didn't know Doyle died, why would you post a spoilery list of the casualties from all the shows??

Because I thought it said 'spoilers' in the subject line, and understood it as a warming for those who had NOT seen S1 yet ? The original poster DID know that Doyle had died.

They knew Doyle had died because they just watched it, so I don't think there's any reason to assume they've seen all other seasons. And the thread title says 'spoilers just in case you haven't seen S1'.

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Friday, February 16, 2007 3:14 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

I have seen all of Angel , but not since it aired originally.I'm halfway through season 2 and I love this show.
I still miss Doyle though !

Bryce

Throw your dreams into space like a kite, and you do not know what it will bring back; a new life, a new friend, a new love, a new country. -Anais Nin

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Friday, February 16, 2007 2:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Grounded wrote:
Thursday, February 15, 2007 23:07

They knew Doyle had died because they just watched it, so I don't think there's any reason to assume they've seen all other seasons. And the thread title says 'spoilers just in case you haven't seen S1'.

You're not serious w/ all this stuff, are ya ? It's clear to anyone that " the original poster " had watched Angel S1 when it 1st aired. There was nothing indicating in the post that they didn't watch the rest of the series, as it aired...HOW MANY YEARS AGO NOW ??

I'm a big fan of Doyle as well.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:54 AM

GROUNDED

Ah I see. I misread the original post. Soz!

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Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:04 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Going on what I remember (which is fuzzy and may actually be imagination) Doyle was originally slated to appear throughout season one, his death being a part of the finale. The introduction of Wesley would have then occured in season 2. However, because of GC's drug problems they moved up the characters death with the possibility of him appearing in more episodes post-humously if he got himself clean. As his heroin overdose proved, he never did.

-------------------------------------------------

I do not kill with my hand.
He who kills with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.

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Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:35 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chronicthehedgehog:
Going on what I remember (which is fuzzy and may actually be imagination) Doyle was originally slated to appear throughout season one, his death being a part of the finale. The introduction of Wesley would have then occured in season 2. However, because of GC's drug problems they moved up the characters death with the possibility of him appearing in more episodes post-humously if he got himself clean. As his heroin overdose proved, he never did.

I was late to the Angel party, so I didn't catch all the Doyle stuff until I rented the entire series. It was a few yrs after he left Angel that Glenn met his fate. I don't know any of the backstory, but it sounds like he just kept sliding more and more downward, until he was gone. I'm guessing only, that there were ups and downs with his recovery/ comeback....but it seemed like a rocky, hard road from his exit of Angel to Dec 3, 2002.

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Monday, March 19, 2007 5:39 PM

DANIELFYRE

As far as the death of Doyle is concerned I was pretty shaken by it and if that's what Joss intended then yeah he did his job. From that moment on I knew no character was safe and I think that was his intent. Every action within every following ep seemed more deadly for me. I knew Angel wouldn't die but I mean if Doyle who was essentially a co star died within season one...when is Cordie gonna go? Answer: Season 5...I loved Wes too he became my favorite character and I loved his character arc it was so beautifuly constructed that during his death scene I will completely admit to this that I'm a 20 year old guy who wouldn't think of himself as overly emotional but for some reason when Wes died I had tears in my eyes. Anyway killing off a character is Joss's way and that's the reason I say I hate Joss, but yet that's the reason I love him because he has the ability to make you care so much about his characters so that when they go you actually feel something from just sitting there watching a TV show. I am writting a TV show with a friend and maybe its the Joss in me but the most loveable character the one you're rooting for the whole way is in fact gonna die...In my opinion the death of a character that you love just serves to advance the story so much because its such a big deal to every other character and if written write the audience as well. While I did hate Doyle's death because I did like him and he was my favorite at the time I felt like there wasn't enough time to get to know him...I cared that he was dead and like I said it made everything more deadly and real but it could have been even better if Doyle had more time. Anyway: RANT OVER.

-DanielFyre

"real men juggle geese"

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